Faraday Future Live Event

[green1]

Yeah, I guess you're right, there. It's like watching the Chevy ads on TV where they claim the Suburban is the best in its class, the Cruze is the best in its class, the pickup is the best in its class, the Impala is the best.... So if your class says "all electric cars on the market", it's not a class of one. Or all non-diesel cars on the market. Or all cars able to seat seven. You are somehow defining the class here. I guess I defined it differently.

My Tesla 90D is the best in its class. That makes it good.

You honestly believe that people cross shop the Tesla with all 7 seat vehicles? with all other EVs? with all non-diesel cars?

By that logic the suburban you just quoted competes directly with the model S, and the chrysler pacifica. And the corvette competes directly with the F150. Let's be realistic here. Tesla is in a class of one. They're the best in that class. They're also, by definition, the worst in that class.

When there's more competition (as there eventually will be) we can talk about whether or not the Model S is actually the "best", until then it's moot to even have the discussion.

 

[BluestarE3]

From what I've read it appears that FF does not own any IP. Reportedly, a corporate entity based out of the Cayman Island is the holder of all FF IP

Faraday Future taken over by billionaire investor ahead of electric car unveil, two more execs leave

Faraday Future doesn't own its intellectual property — and that could spell trouble down the line

Odd that Jia would take over day-to-day operations of FF considering his seeming lack of familiarity with the company's product at yesterday's big reveal. Sampson had to give Jia a tour of the car on stage, tell him where to press the autopark button (that failed) and, when Jia expressed his desire to get an FF91 of his own, Sampson told his boss to take a seat in the audience so that Sampson can tell him and everyone else how to reserve one. Of course, it could just be feigned ignorance as part of the scripted presentation to allow Sampson to cover certain talking points, but it doesn't instill confidence in potential investors by making it seem the head guy is learning about the car for the first time during the public reveal.

As for the IP being held by an offshore company, that also doesn't seem kosher. One can argue that FF was formed as an American company in order to attract and raid talent from other companies, especially in the areas of EVs and autonomous vehicles. These engineers, designers and executives may have been otherwise reluctant to go work for a company based in China. Also, it's a way to deflect any public and political backlash about exporting cutting edge technology overseas since they can say FF is an American company, employing Americans and will be building cars on American soil. Once the talent has been tapped and the patents granted, if FF goes under (whether intentionally or not), all that technology (conveniently owned by the offshore company) can go bye-bye.

 

[green1]

Tesla did a deal with Lotus - a well known and respected sports car manufacturer - and had great talent from the get go, with Elon Musk joining very early on. Instead of rushing a luxury sedan to market with every gizmo imaginable, they started small, making a sports car until they knew what they were doing. Granted, they were also waiting for the technology and a larger EV market, but it took Tesla years to figure out how to build a mass market electric car, let alone one with autopilot and self-driving capability.

And yet people label any competitors as a failure if they don't have something fancier, cheaper, faster, and prettier than Tesla's latest flagship ready to go on day one. By that logic Tesla never would have gotten going because Ford already existed.

 

[Roger_wilco]

The mayor was also there, right? He made a great contribution to the discovery of a 'new species'.

 

[Tam]

In case anyone isn't familiar with this reference:
Chinese self-driving car has, get this, a built-in fish tank

Thanks for the info!

It makes sense: At least those fish don't bark unlike my unruly dogs

 

[trayloader]

Odd that Jia would take over day-to-day operations of FF considering his seeming lack of familiarity with the company's product at yesterday's big reveal. Sampson had to give Jia a tour of the car on stage, tell him where to press the autopark button (that failed) and, when Jia expressed his desire to get an FF91 of his own, Sampson told his boss to take a seat in the audience so that Sampson can tell him and everyone else how to reserve one. Of course, it could just be feigned ignorance as part of the scripted presentation to allow Sampson to cover certain talking points, but it doesn't instill confidence in potential investors by making it seem the head guy is learning about the car for the first time during the public reveal.

As for the IP being held by an offshore company, that also doesn't seem kosher. One can argue that FF was formed as an American company in order to attract and raid talent from other companies, especially in the areas of EVs and autonomous vehicles. These engineers, designers and executives may have been otherwise reluctant to go work for a company based in China. Also, it's a way to deflect any public and political backlash about exporting cutting edge technology overseas since they can say FF is an American company, employing Americans and will be building cars on American soil. Once the talent has been tapped and the patents granted, if FF goes under (whether intentionally or not), all that technology (conveniently owned by the offshore company) can go bye-bye.

Seems like a deliberate move on Jia´s behalf.
PlanB.
Especially with the fact that the FF talent had to work extra shifts to churn out his second prototype the "LeSee" without being credited for. A cold blooded move in which he took off his mask.
China's LeEco unveils a car, but cannot make it drive
This move and the "transfer of IP" would allow him to complete the ring in China.
US financed Chinese shortcut.
"LeSee" is a typo.Let´s see.
Crooks.

 

[Rashomon]

Exactly. The tesla has about 3/4 of the power and torque and will match its 0-60 with the the OTA update.

0-60 time is saturating on tire traction for the S P100D; without more traction just adding power or torque isn't going to give a better result, while software tweaks to the traction control system to get closer to optimal slip may give subtle improvements. But you should be able to measure and feel the difference in 60-to-120-mph acceleration with 1050 horsepower instead of 750, a really significant performance characteristic for most US drivers.

 

[Saghost]

Thanks for the info!

It makes sense: At least those fish don't bark unlike my unruly dogs

It's not really on topic, and I'm mostly not a dog person, but that's a great picture.

 

[Saghost]

0-60 time is saturating on tire traction for the S P100D; without more traction just adding power or torque isn't going to give a better result, while software tweaks to the traction control system to get closer to optimal slip may give subtle improvements. But you should be able to measure and feel the difference in 60-to-120-mph acceleration with 1050 horsepower instead of 750, a really significant performance characteristic for most US drivers.

FF was also talking about Torque vectoring; I really wonder if they went to a three or four motor solution instead of just two.

When tire traction is the issue, you can get just a little bit faster by having a motor on each wheel, because you don't have to pull back any on the gripping wheel when the other one starts to slip...

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Well, I'm not impressed. The reveal had lousy showmanship, and a bunch of glitches, the car is obviously incomplete, and the company is still on life support.

That said, I must say that a lot of what is in this thread is a little overly negative even for all of that.

Over all I find that this reveal has raised my impression of FF (not because the reveal was good, but because my previous impression was so bad). I also note that the mainstream press has been much more forgiving than this thread (though not wholeheartedly endorsing FF either!)

I still think it's unlikely that FF will succeed long term. But I do honestly and wholeheartedly wish them the best of luck, and if they do manage to actually pull it off, maybe I'd consider one of their products in a few years.

For those saying that they don't have a factory or prior experience, it should be noted that the same was said about Tesla at the very start.

FF deserves all the skepticism anyone can muster. Just because they're entering the BEV market doesn't absolve them from criticism, and their approach at every turn has been poor (and that's being generous).

I wish them the best of luck, too, but there is little to compare to Tesla here...and everything points toward a financial money pit. No one welcomes a high profile BEV startup failure...but FF (Jia) certainly appears content to let it happen.

 

[Jeff N]

FF was also talking about Torque vectoring; I really wonder if they went to a three or four motor solution instead of just two.

I think they have one motor up front and two in the rear (one for each wheel) although I didn't get a chance to confirm that so I left it out of my article.

The two rear motors look identical to each other and are side by side in the photo below from a chassis that was on display.

 

[BluestarE3]

It's not really on topic, and I'm mostly not a dog person, but that's a great picture.

It can be sort of on-topic if read in context with my earlier post in this thread :
Faraday Future Live Event

Even though I'm not a pet owner, those dogs are adorable... and I'd much rather have a dog, rather than a car, gauge and respond to my moods.

 

[Saghost]

It can be sort of on-topic if read in context with my earlier post in this thread :
Faraday Future Live Event

Even though I'm not a pet owner, those dogs are adorable... and I'd much rather have a dog, rather than a car, gauge and respond to my moods.

I actually meant that my comment wasn't on topic, rather than the post I was replying too (which I know is part of the still mostly off topic discussion about the fish tank.)

 

[NeverFollow]

I wrote this:

Faraday Future Debuts New Hyper-Everything Car - HybridCars.com

Well done Jeff, and very pleasant to read.
I learned more reading you article than during the full live presentation!

Why FF didn't use a focus group to help them polishing the presentation in advance.
Having a single speaker using the same language style as in your article would have been so much nicer.

My impression is that FF tried to build a "Model S++" only to please some wealthy Chinese people.
The suicide doors "à la" Roll Royce Phantom is a good clue.


Here are some interesting points from your article that would be interesting to use in further analysis:

"One distinguishing feature of the car is a single round LIDAR puck
which visibly protrudes from the hood during automated driving
but remains otherwise hidden."

"Some 10 cameras, 13 radars, and other sensors sweep the nearby surroundings.
A live video demonstration in a nearby parking lot demonstrated the car’s ability
to find an available slot and park itself after the driver had exited."

Note: There was not explanation given in the case if there was no slot available?
Would the car then wait near the exit until a car leave the parking lot,
so other coming cars would also wait behind this waiting car.

I think that the auto park concept would be more useful for providing an autonomous
way of recharging the battery.
During the presentation, there was only mention of future wireless charging.

"A later demonstration inside the venue failed."

Note: The speaker mentioned that just pressing a button was enough?
I think that using a remote key-less Fob or smartphone App would provide more control, or emergency stop.

"Like the recently introduced Air sedan from startup Lucid Motors,
the car features unusual dual parallel fins anchored near the left and right trailing sides of the roof.
The fins will act as antennas and will also house rear-facing cameras."

Note: The dual antenna were mentioned during the presentation, but don't other cars have the antenna inside the windshield?

"The company promised ongoing updates in the coming year to show off the car’s interior design
and provide more details on charging infrastructure, pricing, and other details."

Not: So many questions left. This still looks more like a concept car than production ready.

I wonder if there will be any blog or forum like TMC?

 

[green1]

FF deserves all the skepticism anyone can muster. Just because they're entering the BEV market doesn't absolve them from criticism, and their approach at every turn has been poor (and that's being generous).

I wish them the best of luck, too, but there is little to compare to Tesla here...and everything points toward a financial money pit. No one welcomes a high profile BEV startup failure...but FF (Jia) certainly appears content to let it happen.

I'm not trying to defend FF, far from it, but I can say that the criticisms here are definitely way over the top, and many of the exact same things would have been equally, or more valid, of Tesla.

I agree that it's unlikely they'll succeed, so there's no reason to stretch to unreasonable criticism when there's so much reasonable criticism to go around.

 

[scaesare]

I'm not trying to defend FF, far from it, but I can say that the criticisms here are definitely way over the top, and many of the exact same things would have been equally, or more valid, of Tesla.

I agree that it's unlikely they'll succeed, so there's no reason to stretch to unreasonable criticism when there's so much reasonable criticism to go around.

If you think the criticism here is over the top... did you read the YouTube comments?

My favorite was along the lines of: "How cruel of the entire audience to watch the CEO have a stroke on stage like that and not even call 9-1-1"

 

[green1]

If you think the criticism here is over the top... did you read the YouTube comments?

My favorite was along the lines of: "How cruel of the entire audience to watch the CEO have a stroke on stage like that and not even call 9-1-1"

YouTube isn't exactly well known for being a bastion of common sense rational comments.

 

[Jeff N]

A live video demonstration in a nearby parking lot demonstrated the car’s ability
to find an available slot and park itself after the driver had exited."

Note: There was not explanation given in the case if there was no slot available?
Would the car then wait near the exit until a car leave the parking lot,
so other coming cars would also wait behind this waiting car.

Those are good questions that I don't have answers for.

I believe Tesla has shown a similar video of a Model S autonomously driving around a parking lot looking for space to park. I don't think they answered your question either.

Other questions: will the car autonomously honk the horn if someone else steals a space it had been waiting patiently for? Will it start to drive more aggressively and speed rapidly through the parking lot as time goes on without finding a free stall?

 

[Jeff N]

I think they have one motor up front and two in the rear (one for each wheel) although I didn't get a chance to confirm that so I left it out of my article.

I confirmed this with Faraday Future and have updated my article.

 

[scaesare]

YouTube isn't exactly well known for being a bastion of common sense rational comments.

But often hilarious!