Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[Gynob001]

Just saw this,The records obtained by The Associated Press show Joshua Brown was cited for speeding seven times in Ohio between 2010 and 2015 and once in Virginia." Is there a "black box" in the car that records speed at the time of crash?

 

[Max*]

Just saw this,The records obtained by The Associated Press show Joshua Brown was cited for speeding seven times in Ohio between 2010 and 2015 and once in Virginia." Is there a "black box" in the car that records speed at the time of crash?

Irrelevant, police already stated that he was going the speed limit, which was 65.

 

[MCRed]

From Tesla's blog post, quote:

"What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. The high ride height of the trailer combined with its positioning across the road and the extremely rare circumstances of the impact caused the Model S to pass under the trailer, with the bottom of the trailer impacting the windshield of the Model S. "

Horrible accident where apparently both the Tesla driver and the AP system failed to detect the cross traffic vehicle, and the truck driver likely failed to see the Tesla as well.

AP does not have long range sensors for detecting distant (over 16 ft) oncoming traffic at right angles to the direction of travel.

AP does have a set of long range sensors (along with a set of short-range sensors)...I believe it's the height of the trailer which the AP failed to detect, and that's why it didn't stop even at the last minute and kept driving even after going under the trailer

 

[Max*]

This was according to the trucker involved in the accident, who said it was playing "on the TV" but that he didn't actually see it -- only heard it. Not saying it's not true, but he is not exactly an uninterested party, and it is not as simple as it might seem.

Nope, first line, it's according to the Florida Highway Patrol: DVD player found in Tesla car in Florida crash, authorities say

 

[NoMoGas]

According to CNBC, Tesla responded that the accident was tragic, the first fatality in 1.3 million miles (?) of autopilot driving, but I will paraphrase. The accident involved a white semi that entered the Teslas lane at a right angle, and neither the autopilot or the driver saw the light colored vehicle against the light background.

This tells me that it's possible the driver may not have understood he needed to watch the road, or he was watching and didn't see the large light colored truck. If it was a case of the driver looking, but not seeing a large truck, this could have been a Ford, Volvo, GM, etc. A closely approaching semi may be high enough to escape the radar, and reminds us autopilot users to keep an eye on things.

Autopilot should be called driver assistance, and Teslas efforts to emphasize driver responsibility and situational awareness might need to be ramped up a bit.

Auto pilot IS called "Driver Assistance". That's LITERALLY where you activate it, under Driver Assistance tab.

 

[Vitold]

I'm surprised it didn't start that way. "Autopilot available" notification when you enter a qualifying roadway (in qualifying weather conditions) seems like a sensible option to "save people from themselves" if you will. I know that would upset some people who use it properly in many different scenarios, but these types of incidents can have far broader ramifications than just one unfortunate person's life.

How about, instead of disabling AP, sound “hold the steering-wheel” alert at near uncontrolled/yield/stop controlled intersections when speed >40mph.

 

[Todd Burch]

Please show me one post in this thread where I said or even remotely implied that I doubt that Tesla values safety?

You said that the seatbelt recall was a PR move. How else does one interpret that?

 

[snellenr]

FWIW, Google has been there. This is the view from the truck driver's perspective (he might have been a bit higher, of course).

The truck driver claimed (in the updated article) that he'd already turned across the oncoming lane when he saw the Tesla crest the hill, and had hit the accelerator on his loaded truck to try and get out of the way.

 

[Max*]

You said that the seatbelt recall was a PR move. How else does one interpret that?

That the seatbelt recall was a PR move?

It has nothing to do with me thinking Tesla doesn't value safety.

 

[Todd Burch]

That the seatbelt recall was a PR move?

It has nothing to do with me thinking Tesla doesn't value safety.

I disagree.

 

[JeffK]

The truck driver claimed (in the updated article) that he'd already turned across the oncoming lane when he saw the Tesla crest the hill, and had hit the accelerator on his loaded truck to try and get out of the way.

See that's fishy because if he'd have to look down and out the right window in order to see the Tesla after he already turned which is extremely unlikely (because he wouldn't be watching where he was going) and it would've taken him less time to clear the intersection than the time it would take a car 65 mph to go from the hill crest to the truck. More likely is that he had just began turning and instead of stopping before entering the lanes he simply tried to gun it.

If that's truly a blind hill then Florida needs to put a stop light there.

 

[Boourns]

Nope, first line, it's according to the Florida Highway Patrol: DVD player found in Tesla car in Florida crash, authorities say

I had not seen this specific piece of evidence:

Weekley said his investigators spoke with a witness who said that the DVD player was still playing a "Harry Potter" movie after the crash.

Presuming it is true (Weekly is the truck driver's attorney) and the witness was a person other than the truck driver, I agree that is fairly damning. But notice that the police have actually not stated that it was playing at the time of the accident -- only that a DVD player was found in the car.

Otherwise, my point was that it was premature to presume he was playing a movie on the DVD player, given that (1) in his other videos he was listening to audio books (2) the truck driver only "heard" Harry Potter and didn't see actually see it; (3) the fact that the truck driver clearly has an interest in clearing his name. E.g., he stated that the Tesla driver was going so fast that he never saw him, but police had confirmed he was driving at the 65-mph speed limit.

 

[Vitold]

One of the better articles about the crash and AP:

The technology behind the Tesla crash, explained

 

[Breezy]

Breezy: What is that, that bothers you ?

Seat belt saves lives. People die even while wearing seat belts.

For those who say he would not have died if his car did not have AP, you could also take it one-step more and say he would not have died if he had not been driving at all.

If Tesla's going to promote AP's benefits, it should also promote, with equal weight, its many and serious limitations, the correct way to use it responsibly and what it can and can't do.

They aren't trying anywhere near hard enough. The message isn't getting across.

 

[GoTslaGo]

View attachment 183662 FWIW, Google has been there. This is the view from the truck driver's perspective (he might have been a bit higher, of course).

The truck driver claimed (in the updated article) that he'd already turned across the oncoming lane when he saw the Tesla crest the hill, and had hit the accelerator on his loaded truck to try and get out of the way.

Maybe he could have stopped instead. He also noticed that the driver was inattentative ("watching Harry Potter on TV"). So shouldn't have he done the responsible thing and stopped, honked his horn and waited? The Tesla had the right of way, and was in the far outer lane.

If you saw a pedestrian, on the sidewalk using his smartphone walking very quickly across the entrance of a store parking lot you want to go into, would you try to drive in front of him? Would you be better off waiting or honking?

Sorry, trucker is the one at fault, not Mr. Brown or Autopilot.

 

[zhenya]

Irrelevant, police already stated that he was going the speed limit, which was 65.

Not at all irrelevant because it speaks directly to the driver's behavior - not so much in the willingness to speed (which we all do) but in the lack of awareness to stop himself from being caught so often.

 

[Max*]

But notice that the police have actually not stated that it was playing at the time of the accident -- only that a DVD player was found in the car.

Agreed 100%.

Fox news (fox 8 I think?) said that when paramedics arrived they saw the movie playing.
I can't find the link from a quick search, maybe it wasn't fox, but one of the links said there was a movie playing according to paramedics at the scene.

Is it true? Who knows, I assumed if it was true it'd be in the police report. But since it's not, who knows.

 

[Max*]

Not at all irrelevant because it speaks directly to the driver's behavior - not so much in the willingness to speed (which we all do) but in the lack of awareness to stop himself from being caught so often.

I see where you're going with it, and what point you're trying to make, but past behavior does not dictate future outcomes.

 

[JeffK]

Not at all irrelevant because it speaks directly to the driver's behavior - not so much in the willingness to speed (which we all do) but in the lack of awareness to stop himself from being caught so often.

Who cares what the drivers behavior was or what he wears to bed... it has no bearing on the speed at the time of the accident which police say was probably 65mph (the posted speed limit) based on what the car did after hitting the truck. If he's a serial speeder means nothing if at that moment he was doing the speed limit.

To answer the previous question about a black box. Yes, Teslas have logs which state timestamps, speeds, which features were enabled, which pedals were pressed when, etc.

 

[nikielizabeth]

From what I've read McDonald's did indeed lower the serving temp of their coffee. Even if they didn't, Stella made our lives safer by raising awareness of the danger. And you didn't hurt my feelings. I mention Stella anytime somebody raises the "hot coffee" issue, because like you they most often don't know the full story. Sounds like after reading you still think McDonalds should sell and serve coffee at a temperature that can put somebody in the hospital. We'll have to disagree on that. And I sincerely hope Tesla does something different in the near future concerning AP. Pull the software until its significantly improved, or augment our 1.0 hardware. Something. I hope Joshua Brown didn't die in vain.

Here's a link reporting a 10 degree reduction in McDonald's coffee temp, but it does sound like hear-say in this one. I've read other reports that refer to McDonalds changing the temp as well. But corporations are $- centric and I wouldn't doubt they've gone back to their old ways. I read a lot about more lawsuits against McDonalds recently over coffee temp. Its a shame if they just don't care about public safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/b...edCoverage&region=EndOfArticle&pgtype=article

Good points all around, and we might differ a bit on the overall outcome that should happen for any corporation, but I see your point. I think there is still a huge disconnect between what autopilot is and what it is not. Not sure who is at fault when they get behind the wheel...this is all still very, very new (for the average driver). From what my friend said, Josh was an amazing person with an infectious smile; he is sorely missed by all that had the pleasure of knowing him. I will never disregard the human aspect of any accident and the outcome that changes so many people's lives, but we also need a line that is drawn between personal responsibility and corporate responsibility. It is not always the fault of the person that makes the item since user error can happen.

And here is the link that I found to be pretty straight forward. Again, very sad for her and I wish that on no one (especially since I have burned the hell out of my tongue a million or so times on Starbucks...I don't even want to imagine that crap on my lap).

http://www.okbar.org/Portals/14/Public Speaking/mcdonaldsoutline.pdf

Thank you for your input and for shedding the light on her story as well.