Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[dpeilow]

I find it interesting that Mobileye claim their system is not designed to capture this scenario for two reasons:

1) They claim they detect, warn and apply the brakes for stationary objects in the car's path.

Mobileye Forward Collision Warning (FCW) - Mobileye

The vehicle in front is standing still – in this case there is a major advantage in using a vision sensor which does not require the target to be moving in order to be acquired. In many cases this is a constant speed scenario with a high closing rate. A warning can be given up to 3.0 seconds before a possible impact.

2) They claim "as with all Mobileye features, HMW works in all weather and light conditions."

Mobileye Headway Monitoring and Warning (HMW) - Mobileye


If an articulated truck is moving slowly across the road perpendicular to your direction of travel, it's going to look like a stationary object.

The claim in point 2 seems contrary to the earlier statement that the camera couldn't determine the presence of the truck against the bright white sky.

 

[bhzmark]

Nice to see this - The Tesla didn’t really crash itself

Good Editorial from The Washington Post. It makes the point that likely wasn't at fault, and it also states :

"But the carmaker also named it “Autopilot,” which suggested that the technology was more capable than it turned out to be."

 

[rhhelms]

The autopilot stays engaged from lane control and while it will only power to 90 mph you can make it go faster with your foot.

 

[kort677]

The autopilot stays engaged from lane control and while it will only power to 90 mph you can make it go faster with your foot.

the AP system will disengage at speeds over 90 MPH

 

[Swampgator]

I drive this very road all the time. The area where the accident occurred is dangerous. It is a 65 mph speed limit and most everyone is traveling close to 80 mph. There is no flashing light and a gas station that people turn into by crossing the oncoming lane.
I use cruise control set to 75mph when on this stretch, but I always have my foot over the brake as I crest the hill approaching this intersection.
That's another thing I don't see discussed a lot is that this stretch of road has hills that can limit visibility.
I also think the Tesla driver was down visiting his parents on vacation. He may not have been familiar with this road and the danger of that intersection, and thus not paying attention as he should have.

Just a bad situation.

 

[SR22pilot]

Good Editorial from The Washington Post. It makes the point that likely wasn't at fault, and it also states :

"But the carmaker also named it “Autopilot,” which suggested that the technology was more capable than it turned out to be."

I really don't understand the assumed "fact" that autopilot implies more than the ststem can do. The AP in my plane holds altitude and flies a course. It doesn't slow or maneuver to avoid traffic. I have to do that.

The one place where the AP in my plane is better than the Tesla system is that I can enter waypoints and have it fly a course. I don't see anyone getting confuse because Tesla has used the term autopilot and thinking that the car can follow a route in the GPS.

 

[JeffK]

I really don't understand the assumed "fact" that autopilot implies more than the system can do.

It just shows the lack of education and is pretty much fear mongering on the part of the news media.

 

[NOLA_Mike]

I really don't understand the assumed "fact" that autopilot implies more than the ststem can do. The AP in my plane holds altitude and flies a course. It doesn't slow or maneuver to avoid traffic. I have to do that.

Probably because most people don't know what an aircraft's autopilot can do either.

 

[Doug_G]

Good Editorial from The Washington Post. It makes the point that likely wasn't at fault, and it also states :

"But the carmaker also named it “Autopilot,” which suggested that the technology was more capable than it turned out to be."

Then apparently The Washington Post does not know what an autopilot is. That is a device intended for easing pilot workload, NOT taking over and flying the plane completely autonomously. The pilot can't get out of the seat and walk away - he has to maintain control of the aircraft at all times. Unless he's an irresponsible idiot, of course.

Autopilot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of a vehicle without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace a human operator, but assist them in controlling the vehicle, allowing them to focus on broader aspects of operation, such as monitoring the trajectory, weather and systems.

Seems to me the system is quite aptly named. It's just that people have the wrong idea what an autopilot system is.

 

[brkaus]

I don't know if this article has been posted yet, but I thought it was an interesting one on the different tack Google is taking on the self driving car vs Tesla and some of the human factors issues they have encountered.

Tesla and Google are both driving toward autonomous vehicles. Which company is taking the better route?

Once behind the wheel of the modified Lexus SUVs, the drivers quickly started rummaging through their bags, fiddling with their phones and taking their hands off the wheel — all while traveling on a freeway at 60 mph.

“Within about five minutes, everybody thought the car worked well, and after that, they just trusted it to work,” Chris Urmson, the head of Google’s self-driving car program, said on a panel this year. “It got to the point where people were doing ridiculous things in the car.”

After seeing how people misused its technology despite warnings to pay attention to the road, Google has opted to tinker with its algorithms until they are human-proof.

Top speed of a google car is 25 miles per hour. It's first target is urban areas. It will by a long time (imho) before it can handle all sutuations safely at posted highway speed limits.

 

[kort677]

It just shows the lack of education and is pretty much fear mongering on the part of the news media.

that's what they do, if it bleeds it leads.

 

[Max*]

Top speed of a google car is 25 miles per hour. It's first target is urban areas. It will by a long time (imho) before it can handle all sutuations safely at posted highway speed limits.

The prototype bubble looking car topped out at 25mph. The lexus goes faster, IIRC.

 

[bro1999]

Who exactly has the authority to tell Tesla to do that?

The government.

But it may be in Tesla's best interests to change the name themselves. Now instead of being known as that cool feature that lets Teslas drive by themselves on the road, people are now going, "Autopilot? The feature that ended up getting 1 owner decapitated???"

 

[bhzmark]

Then apparently The Washington Post does not know what an autopilot is. That is a device intended for easing pilot workload, NOT taking over and flying the plane completely autonomously. The pilot can't get out of the seat and walk away - he has to maintain control of the aircraft at all times. Unless he's an irresponsible idiot, of course.

Seems to me the system is quite aptly named. It's just that people have the wrong idea what an autopilot system is.

Words mean what people think they mean -- as documented in dictionaries. See below. Most people think "autopilot" means the car will drive itself. You can point out that nerds on the Tesla forum, and real aircraft pilots, and wikipedia, all don't think "Autopilot" means that. But the simple fact is that most people think it is does. You can argue that they are wrong, that they are not understanding words with appropriate precision. But the fact is that they will think that -- and that understanding was predictable.

How many times were you asked "Is this the car that drives itself?" They think that because most people think autopilot =drives itself.

Now they ask, "Is this the car that drives itself into the side of truck?"

They only think that because Tesla used the catchy marketing phrase "Autopilot" instead of the more explanatory but unwieldy "Car-distance-following and lane-keeping driver assistance."

"Tesla on Autopilot drives into side of truck"

is a lot more attention getting than

"Tesla on Car-distance-following-and-lane-keeping driver assistance drives into side of truck."

precisely because "autopilot" suggests the car is driving itself to the layperson.

 

[Gynob001]

Truck safety

Making turns in a tractor trailer is something that needs perfecting through practice and patience.
Practice comes from doing it...the daily honing of critical skills necessary for the job.

 

[JeffK]

Words mean what people think they mean -- as documented in dictionaries.

Merriam Webster sucks... you should write to them to tell them to fix their definition.

I think wikipedia would be a more accurate source.

thefreedictionary.com defines automatic pilot as "A navigation mechanism, as on an aircraft, that automatically maintains a preset course."

dictionary.com says "an airborne electronic control system that automatically maintains a preset heading and attitude."

Let's read about autopilot in the news:
Lubitz used autopilot to accelerate plane into mountain, black box shows

Would you think autopilot would avoid the mountain because it's called "autopilot"? No.

 

[McRat]

Semantics are the biitch.

Automatic Pilot means 3 things:

To a pilot, it holds heading and altitude. Few people are pilots.

To non-pilot, the word pilot means a person. Automatic Pilot indicates 'somebody' is driving the car.

To B-flick aficionados, you must inflate the Autopilot using the Manual Inflation Valve (Airplane - the movie).

 

[Az_Rael]

Top speed of a google car is 25 miles per hour. It's first target is urban areas. It will by a long time (imho) before it can handle all sutuations safely at posted highway speed limits.

Exactly. They were driving around Lexus vehicles at freeway speeds equipped with all sorts of sensors (lidar, etc). But there was a human factors issue they discovered along the way (their system encouraged people to become distracted drivers) and have decided to skip Level 2 and aim straight for Level 4.

Its a very different path than Tesla is taking

 

[dpeilow]

use cruise control set to 75mph when on this stretch, but I always have my foot over the brake as I crest the hill approaching this intersection.
That's another thing I don't see discussed a lot is that this stretch of road has hills that can limit visibility.

The point about the hills is a good one. Here is the link to StreetView from the trucker's perspective and you can clearly see that there is a small rise immediately in front of the intersection. If, as is speculated, the Model S was massively speeding, the trucker might have thought he had a clear road as he made the left turn. Actually even at 65mph he would cover the distance in 8 seconds.

Google Maps

It's roughly 250 metres from the crest of that hill to the junction. As the car clears the crest of the hill the autopilot is going to see the semi trailer coming into view from below. Maybe that's the scenario that confused it into thinking it was seeing a gantry sign.

 

[McRat]

Before AutoPilot™, some cars had 'Lanekeep Warning' and electric steering. It would have been very easy to incorporate the 2 but they did not in retail cars, only mules and CTF cars.

AP is a wonderful concept. Just like phone texting is. There is nothing wrong with the technology. But there is a flaw in human behaviour.

Already 'texters' worry me far more than drunks. I have a hunch that people watching movies while driving will displace the texters on my hate list.

My family drives more than cars. Bad drivers normally just smash your car and might injure you, but seldom kills you. However, when we are are on motorcycles or bicycles on the street, bad drivers kill us.

If a car of any brand kills a member of your family because the driver is using advanced driver's aids, are you going to be happy that day? For years, it's been 'my daughter was killed by a drunk driver', which is migrating to 'my wife was killed by a texting driver', and in 10 years, it might be 'my mother and father were killed by an automatic car driver'.

It sounds like the technology would have killed a bicyclist, a pedestrian, or a motorcyclist. Sadly this discussion would not be news. Killing bicyclists, pedestrians, or motorcyclists is not normally 'news'. It's so common as to be a non-issue.

Cliff Notes: It's not the technology, it's because we are humans. There is no easy fix for that today.