FCW setting and Safety Score

[dave999z]

Cross post from Insurance forum, because got no response there...

FCWs are frustrating as they seem often unpredictable/unwarranted but ding your Safety Score and therefore affect your insurance rate.

I've read that setting FCW to "early", which makes the audible alert happen earlier, means you may be able to brake before there would have been a FCW under the "medium" setting, and thus before Tesla registers the event as a ding on your Safety Score.

How do we know that is the case, as opposed to it simply registering more FCWs (triggered by the "early" setting) as dings on your Safety Score?

Does Tesla document this somewhere? Has anyone tested this and definitively established this?

 

[EVRider-FL]

I don’t know, but keep in mind that braking enough to avoid a FCW might also ding your safety score.

 

[dave999z]

Well, I've had it set to early for weeks now and keep getting ridiculous FCWs. Not once have I braked in time to avoid getting dinged. So, I'm suspicious that setting it to early simply results in more dings.

The FCWs are about as accurate as the auto wipers, which turn on for no reason in the sun and won't stop until you disable them.

I may end up ditching Tesla insurance for this reason. I just don't want to be put in a bad mood every time that stupid thing goes off and costs me $10.

 

[Terrapin10]

Autopilot cruise control is killing my safety score. I feel like I can't afford to use it - and I have only tried twice. When autopilot-cruise is engaged, I never see any forward collision warnings (FCWs) popup although when I check my safety score after using it, it shows a huge number of forward collision warnings and my score drops severely. The first time I used it on a 5-mile stretch it logged 118 warnings and my score dropped from 90 to 54. Its unclear how a problem like this should be reported or get resolved. Particularly when the safety-score indicates that autopilot driving is not included in score.

 

[Dewg]

Autopilot cruise control is killing my safety score. I feel like I can't afford to use it - and I have only tried twice. When autopilot-cruise is engaged, I never see any forward collision warnings (FCWs) popup although when I check my safety score after using it, it shows a huge number of forward collision warnings and my score drops severely. The first time I used it on a 5-mile stretch it logged 118 warnings and my score dropped from 90 to 54. Its unclear how a problem like this should be reported or get resolved. Particularly when the safety-score indicates that autopilot driving is not included in score.

This interests me, as the information presented during the Beta safety score program showed that while using Driver Assist the safety score was not altered. It was only while manually driving. I wonder when this changed for insurance?

Do you have follow distance at max (7)? And set FCW to Late.

 

[Mardak]

Autopilot cruise control is killing my safety score… The first time I used it on a 5-mile stretch it logged 118 warnings

It looks like you're using Safety Score 1.2 as "Forward Collision Warnings per 1,000 Non-Autopilot Miles" is capped at 117.5. If you had say 1 FCW for 2 non-Autopilot miles, it would calculate to 500 FCW per 1000 then capped to 118 that you see in the app. With 1.2, you should also be able to see a visualization of your trip indicating approximately where the FCW happened.

More generally, FCW during Autopilot wouldn't have made your score worse:

I had a Forward Collision Warning while Autopilot was engaged. Will my Safety Score be impacted?​

The Safety Score formula ignores any events that occur while Autopilot is engaged (including 5 seconds after the Autopilot is disengaged). This does not include Forced Autopilot Disengagements or Late Night Driving, which will impact your Safety Score. Any events that occur while a driver is manually engaging the acceleration pedal while on Traffic Aware Cruise Control will count towards the Safety Score.​

​

Miles driven while Autopilot is engaged are not used to determine the Forward Collision Warnings per 1,000 Miles. Miles driven on Autopilot are not considered when calculating the mileage-weighted Safety Score.​

Safety Score Beta | Tesla Support

The Safety Score Beta is an assessment of your driving behavior based on several metrics called Safety Factors. These are combined to estimate the likelihood that your driving could result in a future collision. We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) to calculate the aggregated...

www.tesla.com

 

[dave999z]

If I have Safety Score v1.0, does that mean I'm stuck with it? There's no way to force an upgrade to v1.2?

 

[Mardak]

If I have Safety Score v1.0, does that mean I'm stuck with it?

Safety Score 1.2 has only been available for a couple months, but I'm not on Tesla Insurance to know if it can be switched right now. Seems like something you could message Tesla to find out. Some people have preferred the original as it doesn't directly lower your score for driving at night (as it's generally more dangerous at that time). Even with version 1, FCW shouldn't affect your score, and back when FSD Beta enrollment was using that, I had gotten "early" FCW in the vehicle that did not show up for Safety Score's "medium" later in the app.

I had a Forward Collision Warning while Autopilot was engaged. Will my Safety Score be impacted?​

​

No. The Safety Score formula ignores any events (not just Forward Collision Warnings) that occur while Autopilot is engaged (including 3 seconds after the Autopilot is disengaged) and appropriately utilized. This does not include Forced Autopilot Disengagement.​

​

Events that occur while you override Traffic Aware Cruise Control with the accelerator pedal will impact your Safety Score.​

​

Miles driven while Autopilot is engaged is used to determine the Forward Collision Warnings per 1,000 Miles. Miles driven on Autopilot are also considered when calculating the mileage-weighted Safety Score.​

Safety Score Beta | Tesla Support

The Safety Score Beta is an assessment of your driving behavior based on several metrics called Safety Factors. These are combined to estimate the likelihood that your driving could result in a future collision. We combine your daily Safety Scores (up to 30 days) to calculate the aggregated...

www.tesla.com

 

[dave999z]

Even with version 1, FCW shouldn't affect your score, and back when FSD Beta enrollment was using that, I had gotten "early" FCW in the vehicle that did not show up for Safety Score's "medium" later in the app.

Not sure what you mean... When not using autopilot, FCW absolutely affects your score. I have mine set to early, just got another ridiculous warning, slowed down immediately, but it still registered as an event, dropped my score 2 points, and upped my premium $9.

It's not the $9 that's the issue. I just don't like this insurance system that's based on this ill functioning algorithm and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'll be canceling Tesla Insurance. Was worth a try, but I don't want to feel like I'm playing a stupid video game all the time when I'm driving and then be in a bad mood every time the stupid thing goes off for no reason.

 

[Dewg]

Not sure what you mean... When not using autopilot, FCW absolutely affects your score. I have mine set to early, just got another ridiculous warning, slowed down immediately, but it still registered as an event, dropped my score 2 points, and upped my premium $9.

It's not the $9 that's the issue. I just don't like this insurance system that's based on this ill functioning algorithm and there's nothing you can do about it.

I'll be canceling Tesla Insurance. Was worth a try, but I don't want to feel like I'm playing a stupid video game all the time when I'm driving and then be in a bad mood every time the stupid thing goes off for no reason.

What Mardak was explaining is that FCW's do not affect your score while on Driver Assist. As long as Driver Assist is engaged, the car can slam on the brakes and it won't affect your score. And you get a 3 second grace period after Driver Assist is disengaged. So if you press the brake pedal, which disengages Driver Assist, and you slow down fairly hard for more than 3 seconds, then your score could be impacted.

 

[MP3Mike]

I haven't gotten a false FCW in quite a while. (After getting them all the time on older firmware versions.)

 

[dave999z]

Yeah, I'm not talking about driver assist. I'm just talking about normal driving (not on autopilot) and the FCW going off far too often. That is just not fun.

Given that both auto wipers and FCW rely on the front facing camera, and the auto wipers are completely erratic and their performance varies widely from car to car, I think some people probably don't experience the frequent unwarranted FCWs. I unfortunately do, and since there's no way to change it (I wouldn't even bother trying to communicate with Tesla about it), I'll be canceling. Don't want to have to constantly think about this broken algorithm.

 

[Dewg]

Yeah, I'm not talking about driver assist. I'm just talking about normal driving (not on autopilot) and the FCW going off far too often. That is just not fun.

Given that both auto wipers and FCW rely on the front facing camera, and the auto wipers are completely erratic and their performance varies widely from car to car, I think some people probably don't experience the frequent unwarranted FCWs. I unfortunately do, and since there's no way to change it (I wouldn't even bother trying to communicate with Tesla about it), I'll be canceling. Don't want to have to constantly think about this broken algorithm.

Two things:

1) Recalibrate your cameras - see if that helps. Recent updates have improved things like wiper performance, so if your wipers are terrible and giving you lots of dry wipes, there may be something wrong with your hardware.
2) Set your FCW to Late and not Early. Though it's been reported previously that the score uses medium no matter what you set it to. But "Late" will give you fewer FCWs.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I-5 Local Bypass · San Diego, CA 92130

San Diego, CA 92130

maps.app.goo.gl

I get a spurious FCW literally every time I drive (in the slow lane) past approximately this spot (Early setting but I think Medium does it too - not sure, don’t drive this regularly).

Fortunately I don’t care at all. Pretty alarming though at 75mph - makes you look at least.

This is right before the exit it is unable to ever take. Comedy of errors.

V11 will fix everything.

 

[Dewg]

I-5 Local Bypass · San Diego, CA 92130

San Diego, CA 92130

maps.app.goo.gl

I get a spurious FCW literally every time I drive (in the slow lane) past approximately this spot (Early setting but I think Medium does it too - not sure, don’t drive this regularly).

Fortunately I don’t care at all. Pretty alarming though at 75mph - makes you look at least.

This is right before the exit it is unable to ever take. Comedy of errors.

V11 will fix everything.

I drive that area pretty frequently. Heading 5S, I take the Carmel Mountain bypass, since I exit La Jolla Village Dr shortly after the bypass ends. Which exit are you taking? I'll have to do some tests when I'm down there next to see if I get FCW's on the three settings (Early, Medium, Late). I tend to run in Late mode, so it's very rare I see FCWs.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I drive that area pretty frequently. Heading 5S, I take the Carmel Mountain bypass, since I exit La Jolla Village Dr shortly after the bypass ends. Which exit are you taking? I'll have to do some tests when I'm down there next to see if I get FCW's on the three settings (Early, Medium, Late). I tend to run in Late mode, so it's very rare I see FCWs.

*Northbound*, using the bypass, slow lane. It definitely happens when coming from 805N. I don’t think I noticed when coming from 5N, but that could be because I was not yet in the slow lane.

Obviously run FCW Early to (possibly) see it since that is how I run it.

While you are at it, try to take Carmel Mountain road exit, lol. (Set NOA Nav destination on Carmel Mountain road. Can always get right back on the freeway if you are lucky enough to actually have the car exit.)

Warning: be ready to take over and *do not crash* in the gore point.

I have never once successfully exited here (I have not tried at night) under AP control. At least 0/6.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I drive that area pretty frequently. Heading 5S, I take the Carmel Mountain bypass, since I exit La Jolla Village Dr shortly after the bypass ends. Which exit are you taking? I'll have to do some tests when I'm down there next to see if I get FCW's on the three settings (Early, Medium, Late). I tend to run in Late mode, so it's very rare I see FCWs.

Anyway happened to be driving that route so captured it today (already have a couple times prior for the exit, but not sure if the FCW was in the videos ).

Running Early here. I haven’t bothered to look at the visualization detail to see what the car saw, if anything. Nothing to do with the construction sawhorse thing AFAIK (visualized as cones and I think that was new). Probably just the slight dip in the road or something.

Anyway hopefully this does not happen on Medium and does not count against Safety Score. Should have tried Medium of course. Would have if I had remembered. Anyone can reproduce though.