Finding it hard to remain passionate about Tesla

[Ostrichsak]

I think Tesla has a lot they need to fix still, but I think the transition from the Tesla of the past to a slightly fixed Tesla of today was inevitable. Their long term goal wasn't so sell niche EVs for exorbitant prices it was to drive the mass adoption of EVs. You can't run a company in the red forever.

They're not even at 4 consecutive quarters of profitability yet and they're just coming off one factory build, in the middle of another and planning the next. I'm not surprised things are rocky right now and I believe they need to make sure they don't lose focus on improving initial quality and customer satisfaction, but I also don't think they're that bad on either.

I recognize they're definitely not Lexus level service and quality, but my local SC at least exceeds my experience with either local BMW dealership. Of course, people do have different SC experiences based on location, which is one of those problems on the list, but I'd be careful labeling those that have consistent good experience as fanboys; some of us actually have very good service experiences.

Honestly, I don't know if Tesla's business model is sustainable as is. Designing, manufacturing, selling and servicing made sense when they were low volume, but you can see the strain as they increase volume. From subpar service locations to the used purchase experience that went from high quality refurbished CPO to a bit of a gamble of used car quality.

I don't know if the answer is Tesla partnering with other companies for certain functions like used car sales or just restructuring sales/service into a self-sufficient organization that handles final QA, transportation repairs and service.

The fact that they can't provide something as simple as basic service to existing customers while operating in a profit and expanding speaks volumes to Tesla's focus. They won't live long enough to usher in the mass adoption of EVs if they continue pissing the few customers they have off and the trend is getting worse and worse weekly. Think about how far it would set back EVs if tomorrow everyone just thought "Nah, screw it. I'm done with this experiment" the way lots of people already are. The big manufacturers would immediately cancel their EV projects since they have next to nothing invested and focus a fraction of the resources on slandering EVs and they they failed to reinforce the general public's idea that ICE is the wave of the future. It would be generations until anyone even attempted to wipe that dirt from the electric vehicle name. Tesla needs to take this more serious and the fact that they can't even service their customers properly is just waiting for a media scoop to send them home with their tail between their legs. It's amazing to me that they keep making stuff up to try to tarnish the Tesla brand and all they need to do is report in the increasingly painful way they treat paying customers.

Note: I'm not saying that Tesla WILL fail because I personally don't believe they will while many others believe they will. I do believe that they can effectively slow down the transition to sustainable energy transportation through their own ego stroking.

 

[bob_p]

Pre-Model 3, Tesla provided generally provided outstanding service.

Now that 3 & Y have been released, Tesla is still working out the kinks in manufacturing in higher volumes and dealing with a huge increase in the number of Tesla vehicles on the road - which is forcing them to shift away from how they were doing business before 3 was released.

Rather than implementing the dealership model used by the other manufacturers, Tesla is attempting to support customers directly - and to do so more efficiently (# of Tesla staff per total vehicles manufactured). They focus primarily on online sales, rather than having dealer showrooms. They are moving service interactions to their app and using text messaging. And making other changes to more efficiently handle their rapidly expanding customer base.

This isn't an easy transition to make - and clearly they are having challenges, and the COVID crisis isn't making this any easier, with a new set of challenge (that everyone is dealing with).

While support today is different than when we purchased our first Model S in early 2013, overall we are still very satisfied with our Tesla vehicles and the quality of service we are getting from our local Tesla service center - and when it becomes time to replace our S or X, will likely look first at purchasing another Tesla to replace it.

Even with the Tesla's huge valuation, it's easy to forget that Tesla is still essentially a "startup" company, especially compared with the other manufacturers who have spent decades building out their dealership infrastructure.

And if Tesla succeeds with getting through this transition and figures out how to build quality vehicles in high volume with a more efficient customer support model, it will make it even more difficult for the other manufacturers to compete with Tesla, burdened with an expensive dealership network...

Patience...

 

[Ostrichsak]

Pre-Model 3, Tesla provided generally provided outstanding service.

Now that 3 & Y have been released, Tesla is still working out the kinks in manufacturing in higher volumes and dealing with a huge increase in the number of Tesla vehicles on the road - which is forcing them to shift away from how they were doing business before 3 was released.

Rather than implementing the dealership model used by the other manufacturers, Tesla is attempting to support customers directly - and to do so more efficiently (# of Tesla staff per total vehicles manufactured). They focus primarily on online sales, rather than having dealer showrooms. They are moving service interactions to their app and using text messaging. And making other changes to more efficiently handle their rapidly expanding customer base.

This isn't an easy transition to make - and clearly they are having challenges, and the COVID crisis isn't making this any easier, with a new set of challenge (that everyone is dealing with).

While support today is different than when we purchased our first Model S in early 2013, overall we are still very satisfied with our Tesla vehicles and the quality of service we are getting from our local Tesla service center - and when it becomes time to replace our S or X, will likely look first at purchasing another Tesla to replace it.

Even with the Tesla's huge valuation, it's easy to forget that Tesla is still essentially a "startup" company, especially compared with the other manufacturers who have spent decades building out their dealership infrastructure.

And if Tesla succeeds with getting through this transition and figures out how to build quality vehicles in high volume with a more efficient customer support model, it will make it even more difficult for the other manufacturers to compete with Tesla, burdened with an expensive dealership network...

Patience...

Yeah, and the Model 3 just came out last month and they had no idea they would make/sell this many. Wait...

 

[SO16]

Would be nice if Tesla would offer a nice battery replacement for throttled people.

will be nice when FSD comes to full fruition.

Tesla recent ranked dead last on some car survey. You can't earn that distinction polling TMC members, so I suspect the problem is more widespread than your estimations.

If you are referring to the JD powers survey, you may want to watch this...

 

[SO16]

You’d think they would add more service centers, superchargers, and weather stripping after getting all those piles of investors cash.

But instead we get sold bleeding edge beta software/hardware. There is a laser focus on technology, and that’s the Tesla way.

I personally prefer a more refined and mature car/company.

I’m waiting for EQS or next gen Model S. Right now I’m in a boring thus flawless commuter Chevy Bolt for the time being, and I’m loving not having to think about the car anymore. So simple and less stress.

They are adding more superchargers. Quite a few adds on this list.

supercharge.info

They are adding more service centers. But probably not as fast as we’d like.

 

[SO16]

Yeah, and the Model 3 just came out last month and they had no idea they would make/sell this many. Wait...

Well considering the stock price was in the 300’s not long ago, and 100’s a year ago, and in the middle of a pandemic, and can’t instantly build many service centers BEFORE you have the income from Model 3 sales, I think Tesla is doing quite well. Do I wish they could do better and make all the older owners whole with the battery issue? Of course. Would be nice if they could even just offer a battery swap for like 5k. The rest of the car is probably perfectly fine.

 

[ucmndd]

The fact that they can't provide something as simple as basic service to existing customers while operating in a profit and expanding speaks volumes to Tesla's focus. They won't live long enough to usher in the mass adoption of EVs if they continue pissing the few customers they have off and the trend is getting worse and worse weekly.

I've got two warranty replacements with an invoice showing $250 clearly and plainly before being zero'd out due to warranty coverage. That's literally clicking a button in my app and having the magic sorcerer replace it while I don't even get up from my chair. It almost literally doesn't get any easier and more care-free than that other than if Tesla could get that error message notification and just show up and replace it for me w/o me even having to open an app to request it with a few clicks.

These posts were within like 20 minutes of each other. Which is it? Grave incompetence that will doom the entire EV movement or “almost literally doesn’t get any easier and more care-free?”

I can’t imagine it’s actually both.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Remember when Apple was the underdog? You either die young, or you grow up and become the villan.

Tesla has become the villain solely because of degradation of customer service.

Tesla has done this because:
1) it had to abandon Model X development and restart, delaying the release for 2 years, during which period Elon Musk bullshitted about progress at every single earnings release
2) it had a failed first attempt at Model 3 production automation, which forced Tesla to throw bodies into an inefficient production process
3) it's desperate to make an annual profit so it can get into the S&P 500 and to help kill off its share of the investment world's parasites.

If you don't want to be the villain, it really helps not to make huge mistakes that make you so desperate you'll screw people over to get money.

If Tesla somehow made a profit in 2020Q2, and it can get into the S&P 500, then it might be able to use its stronger cash position and invest in some underappreciated humans that can help fix the problems it has.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Well considering the stock price was in the 300’s not long ago, and 100’s a year ago, and in the middle of a pandemic, and can’t instantly build many service centers BEFORE you have the income from Model 3 sales, I think Tesla is doing quite well. Do I wish they could do better and make all the older owners whole with the battery issue? Of course. Would be nice if they could even just offer a battery swap for like 5k. The rest of the car is probably perfectly fine.

Standing up customer service capable of handling # of customers you're selling to has nothing to do with what your stock price is.

 

[Ostrichsak]

These posts were within like 20 minutes of each other. Which is it? Grave incompetence that will doom the entire EV movement or “almost literally doesn’t get any easier and more care-free?”

I can’t imagine it’s actually both.

Funny that you dragged that post from another thread into here as if it's me somehow contradicting myself. Two positive experiences on basic, minor maintenance calls out of dozens of problems don't a quality customer service make. Of the dozens of issues I've had across five different Teslas those were but two that were addressed easily. There were a few mobile service issues that were resolved nearly flawlessly because 1) they were common issues and 2) the mobile tech for our area was exceptionally great at what he did. He has since moved on to greener pastures and the void left in his absence is glaring. Acting like if they somehow got one, small issue right proves they offer the best customer service support possible is wildly inaccurate. As an example, the first battery was swapped out while the car sat in the garage for 6-months unusable since Tesla couldn't get me proper title work to prove I owned the car legally in order to register it and get plates to drive it on public roadways. The battery died while it say unused and I couldn't reach anyone at Tesla who could resolve that issue. Yeah, Tesla "customer service" support is amazing!

 

[Cheburashka]

Well considering the stock price was in the 300’s not long ago, and 100’s a year ago, and in the middle of a pandemic, and can’t instantly build many service centers BEFORE you have the income from Model 3 sales, I think Tesla is doing quite well. Do I wish they could do better and make all the older owners whole with the battery issue? Of course. Would be nice if they could even just offer a battery swap for like 5k. The rest of the car is probably perfectly fine.

They don't need to build service centers right away.

Answering the phone would be a good start.

 

[SO16]

They don't need to build service centers right away.

Answering the phone would be a good start.

I do agree about the phones.

 

[EVDRVN]

They don't need to build service centers right away.

Answering the phone would be a good start.

So would keeping customer commitments but they have that sneaky arbitration clause also known as the "screw you" clause. I wonder how things would be for them if everyone had an objective venue to argue their issues vs a arbitrator paid for by Tesla. Those that think the issues with Tesla are 5% live in a bubble. I easily know 50 plus people personally that have new 3 cars and all have had some issues and not nit picking about measuring panel gaps. A better start would be to hire honest managers, not ones that cover their butt and throw honest front line people under the bus. Tesla gets away with this BS because their culture supports this and too many customers tolerate it. Churn and burn does not work long term.

 

[SO16]

Standing up customer service capable of handling # of customers you're selling to has nothing to do with what your stock price is.

Actually to a point it does. They raised cash by.....stock offering which was done when the price was higher.

 

[bpjod]

Well, let's see. I've had terrible service from: GM, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Dodge and VW in the past. The only one I can't complain about is Acura. As for Tesla, I've had two ranger service calls that were exemplary - best service I've ever received. Also one occasion where I brought my car in to the service centre (had to replace upper control arm, also got upgraded to HW3) and that was also an excellent service experience. Furthermore, I don't even have to bother with regularly scheduled service with Tesla - what a relief and you can't say that about any other car.

I'm sorry to hear of your issues and I'd be terribly disappointed if I were affected by the throttling issue - thankfully it's a fairly small subset of cars and I do hope Tesla does right by those owners, but they're certainly dragging their feet on the issue and it's not looking promising.

In my experience Tesla service is better than any other manufacturer's service I've had to deal with and I'd be willing to bet that far more Tesla drivers have had my experience than your experience. There is always the vocal minority who come to forums to loudly express their displeasure. This may give the impression that Tesla's service sucks, but the vast majority of owners I talk to feel the same as me and I think that by hanging around the loud complainers, one might get an overblown sense of the magnitude of the problem. I don't deny there is a problem - one justifiably unsatisfied owner is a problem, but overall, the vast majority of owners aren't experiencing problems with service.

If one were able to survey all car owners after 1, 2 & 5 years of ownership about their service experience, I'd bet that Tesla's score wouldn't be perfect, but it also would rank very highly relative to any other car manufacturer.

 

[Cheburashka]

Well, let's see. I've had terrible service from: GM, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Dodge and VW in the past. The only one I can't complain about is Acura. As for Tesla, I've had two ranger service calls that were exemplary - best service I've ever received. Also one occasion where I brought my car in to the service centre (had to replace upper control arm, also got upgraded to HW3) and that was also an excellent service experience. Furthermore, I don't even have to bother with regularly scheduled service with Tesla - what a relief and you can't say that about any other car.

I'm sorry to hear of your issues and I'd be terribly disappointed if I were affected by the throttling issue - thankfully it's a fairly small subset of cars and I do hope Tesla does right by those owners, but they're certainly dragging their feet on the issue and it's not looking promising.

In my experience Tesla service is better than any other manufacturer's service I've had to deal with and I'd be willing to bet that far more Tesla drivers have had my experience than your experience. There is always the vocal minority who come to forums to loudly express their displeasure. This may give the impression that Tesla's service sucks, but the vast majority of owners I talk to feel the same as me and I think that by hanging around the loud complainers, one might get an overblown sense of the magnitude of the problem. I don't deny there is a problem - one justifiably unsatisfied owner is a problem, but overall, the vast majority of owners aren't experiencing problems with service.

If one were able to survey all car owners after 1, 2 & 5 years of ownership about their service experience, I'd bet that Tesla's score wouldn't be perfect, but it also would rank very highly relative to any other car manufacturer.

There are a few places where service is good apparently. Your profile says you live in Alberta. I was in Calgary for 10 days right before COVID started and saw a total of 2 Teslas the entire time I was there.

Service is a complete cluster in California. I personally don't know a single person here that raves about how good service is. Every time I take my car to the service center it takes forever, and every time I hear people arguing with the service managers about issues.

I disagree with you in that you claim that service is mostly good. I think service is mostly terrible, with a few places where it is good.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Actually to a point it does. They raised cash by.....stock offering which was done when the price was higher.

Far and away their best customer service support was before they ever even made a penny. Kind of blows that theory about stock prices out of the water. In fact, the drive to be profitable ahead of schedule is when the service tanked. So I guess in a way I was wrong about it not depending on the stock price but not in the way you're saying.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Well, let's see. I've had terrible service from: GM, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Dodge and VW in the past. The only one I can't complain about is Acura. As for Tesla, I've had two ranger service calls that were exemplary - best service I've ever received. Also one occasion where I brought my car in to the service centre (had to replace upper control arm, also got upgraded to HW3) and that was also an excellent service experience. Furthermore, I don't even have to bother with regularly scheduled service with Tesla - what a relief and you can't say that about any other car.

I'm sorry to hear of your issues and I'd be terribly disappointed if I were affected by the throttling issue - thankfully it's a fairly small subset of cars and I do hope Tesla does right by those owners, but they're certainly dragging their feet on the issue and it's not looking promising.

In my experience Tesla service is better than any other manufacturer's service I've had to deal with and I'd be willing to bet that far more Tesla drivers have had my experience than your experience. There is always the vocal minority who come to forums to loudly express their displeasure. This may give the impression that Tesla's service sucks, but the vast majority of owners I talk to feel the same as me and I think that by hanging around the loud complainers, one might get an overblown sense of the magnitude of the problem. I don't deny there is a problem - one justifiably unsatisfied owner is a problem, but overall, the vast majority of owners aren't experiencing problems with service.

If one were able to survey all car owners after 1, 2 & 5 years of ownership about their service experience, I'd bet that Tesla's score wouldn't be perfect, but it also would rank very highly relative to any other car manufacturer.

If what you say is true then why did Tesla remove the ability to call & talk to a human being they could hold personally accountable until their issue was resolved? Where they inundated with customers calling to praise them on how good their service experience was so they couldn't be bothered? You had a bad experience with every other manufacturer but the primary difference is that I've got a local phone number I can call and get a real local human to pick up after two rings and, best yet, they will supply more contact information like their direct email and, should I need it, their supervisor's direct contact info and I can drive 5-minutes to look both of them in the eye and hold them accountable until my problem is resolved. Now, I'm not saying I would even need to do all of that with any of the makes you just listed but the key here is: it's an option. Not so with Tesla. You're hoping against hope that this request mobile service within the app goes 100% perfectly because if not, you have ZERO recourse and ZERO way to escalate to someone that can help. If the request service via the app solution worked flawlessly I wouldn't have a single problem with it being the ONLY option. It doesn't though and not having any other option is simply unacceptable unless your goal is to offer sub-par (at best) customer service and you don't care.

 

[SO16]

Far and away their best customer service support was before they ever even made a penny. Kind of blows that theory about stock prices out of the water. In fact, the drive to be profitable ahead of schedule is when the service tanked. So I guess in a way I was wrong about it not depending on the stock price but not in the way you're saying.

Not really. Back when customer service was superb, the ratio of cars to service centers was probably much better in your area. The number of service centers haven’t kept pace with the number of cars on the road. How many service centers would be needed to keep that same ratio in your area along with expanding everywhere else? That would take major investment. And way back when, how did they get that money to setup that service center? If they weren’t making a penny, they had to get the money from borrowing/capital raise I would think.

Anyway...it doesn’t matter. I think we can both agree that Tesla does need more service centers in some extremely busy markets and should bring back the direct phone option.

 

[ucmndd]

Funny that you dragged that post from another thread into here as if it's me somehow contradicting myself.

They're not necessarily contradictory. In fact I've said several times that I think inconsistency is perhaps Tesla's biggest problem right now, and this can easily be an example of that.

I'm more suggesting that there are lots of posts about perfectly good (exceptional even) service experiences on this forum. I've had such experiences recently, others have, and apparently you have as well - "magic" even. Given that, I think your first post about Tesla's rampant service failings being the downfall of the company and indeed the entire EV industry are a tad hyperbolic.

I think a majority of people are having perfectly fine (if mediocre) experiences with Tesla service right now. Forums amplify the problems and bury the success stories.