Finding it hard to remain passionate about Tesla

ac_power · Jul 24, 2020

Quite indicative to watch how the threads, whom OPs would be publicly crucified couple years back, now are going through the roof with likes. I really hope someone will catch notes, but the reality is that as long Tesla has an access to the new customer base, they can keep selling cars without investing into service or infrastructure.
Once Teslas were cars everyone would be proud to own. Now buying Tesla you look like a gambler - even if $60K car meets Corolla quality standards, try to get it serviced or find a stall at a supercharger.
They drive well though, no doubts.

pamich10 · Jul 24, 2020

Great ideas!!

PokerFJÆS · Jul 24, 2020

Buddy, you are not alone. Statistically speaking, it sounds like your're among the 0.6% of Tesla owners who would not recommend Tesla to friends or family. It looks like you're one of the unlucky few. Check out Bloomberg's 2019 survey of every aspect of model 3 owner customer satisfaction. Bloomberg Tesla Model 3 Survey Part I: Quality & Reliability

OCJoe · Jul 24, 2020

Agree with lots of these points. Early Adopters who got the white-glove treatment have to understand that Tesla is now mass-market and they will have to look back with nostalgia at the days of paying six-figures for a car and being treated like royalty. I am sympathetic towards Tesla on this point.

What I don't understand is why a company that CAN master crazy-difficult technology CANNOT deliver initial quality and a service experience that are table-stakes for most automakers. The root cause of both of these issues is lack of a dealer network. Dealers scream bloody murder about initial quality and have more leverage than in individual buyer to correct it. They also tend to provide excellent service both because the manufacturer demands it and because they realize it's their critical value-add. Of course a dealer network costs money to support. When Tesla was selling six-figure cars to a niche market a dealer network was a luxury they could not afford. Unfortunately Elon is to cheap/stubborn to pay a dealer network now even though as a mass market player he can't deliver consistent service and initial quality with existing in-house talent. There's also the issue of culture... once the idea takes root that initial defects and sub-par service experiences are the price customers must pay in order to have access to amazing technology, it's hard to walk that back. A dealer network would be able to start fresh and adopt a more healthy mind-set.

All that said - I have been lucky so far. My initial quality was good and I've had no reason to interact with a Tesla SC. And some local friends indicate that the nearby service center does a decent job. Tesla needs to make people feel that high initial quality and a world-class service experience is not a matter of luck but a reliable outcome that people spending premium dollar for a car can consistently expect. If they don't, competition will emerge and eat their lunch.

Kahuna555 · Jul 24, 2020

Understand your need to rant. My Tesla experience over past year with Tesla has not been great either, though I do continue to love the cars, the “Tesla Experience” has definitely caused me to sour on the company Tesla. I purchased a 14 Model S through a wholesale auction a few years ago. Being a dealer you do not get a title right away, which really confuses the SC/Tech Support.
Took me 2weeks and several lockouts to convince Tesla I was the owner of the car. Fast forward to beginning of 2020. I had been looking Used Model X through Tesla. Being a dealer I knew where several hundred traded in Teslas were located, but because of Tesla lack of experience in the used car markets they dinnot allow them be inspected before purchase. If you put a non refundable $100 deposit down they would bring the vehicle to a DC to see. If you rejected the vehicle you were out your $100. Once you took delivery no returns were allowed. One bright spot is Tesla does give a 2/4 50k mile warranty that is the best in the business .
My Model Y story.
I ended ordering What I thought was Model Y over the phone . Right after I agreed to the order I noticed it was for a Model 3. I questioned the Tesla rep. He said he thought I wanted a Model 3 even though I specifically told him numerous times I was only interested in a Model Y. Ended up canceling the Model 3 order and Tesla refused to return my $100 deposit.

. my experience only got worse. A few days later I got a call from Tesla and wanted to know if I wanted to test dive a Model Y. At that time, there were no Model Y’s available for test drives so I jumped at the chance to be the first to do so. Next day got to drive the Model Y, which of course I loved it and place an order. About 6 weeks later the Y arrived and went to take delivery. Much to my dismay the Y had so many issues, like paint, interior damages, misaligned seats, damaged seals and so on. The DC guy said I should reject and they would get me another Y within 7 days. Sure enough I received a call 4 days later saying they had another car. 3 days later I went to look at the car. This Y seemed better so I did take delivery. What happen next was pretty embarrassing for me, having 25 years in the car business. At my DC you inspect the cars inside a warehouse that not well lit, so you are not really getting a chance to see the paint on the car as well as in the natural light, especially a white car. The next day at home I looking over the car throughly and the right side doors and fenders paint looked off. Thought maybe I was being overly critical so I took the car to Tesla ‘s certified body shop to ask their opinion. Manager came out to look at the car and right away he agreed the panels did not match and the paint was blotchy.
Much to my embarrassment, he pointed out several other paint and body issues that I missed including areas that had repaired as well has bent door and hood hinges. he said he had another Model Y In the shop just like mine that was being completely repainted.
Immediately drove the car to the SC , they wouldn’t even look at the car and they called the manager at DC and directed me back to them. When I got to DC, the car had less 100 miles on it. The Manager of the DC said he was busy and pawned me off to the service manager there. The SC manager wouldn’t even take the time to look at the car or provide any solutions to the problems. He just wanted to know if I wanted to return the car. I asked him if he had any other ways to resolve the problems and he simply asked for my key cards and told me to wait for him to get the paperwork to return the car. He also told my deposit would not be returned and I would not be able to another Model Y in the same trim level. 15 minutes later I was waiting for a ride home without my Model Y.
Moral of the story. Tesla does not seem to care about it’s customers, only numbers of sales that will get them to the S&P 500 and raise the price of Tesla’s stock so Musk can get his billions in incentives. I think the technologies that Tesla, Space X are great but I am wondering where Musk’s heart really is... and even though I am really bummed I am not owning and driving a Tesla right now, I really hope that other EVs will come to market and make Tesla be forced to treat their loyal customers better if they want to retain them. Thanks for allowing me to rant too.

Robostreak · Jul 24, 2020

Your sentiments along with a few others.... are spot on! We have been beyond disappointed overall with the complete arrogance of Tesla staff when raising issues or concerns. Completely tired of the horrid and lackluster service. No follow ups.

Somebody mentioned customers being misled a while back... we experienced being misled on a few features included/offered with our two MX’s. The salesperson admitted he gave us bad information. When we requested they fairly make it right we were told by the dealership manager to ‘prove it’ and ‘piss off’. We then raised it with another Tesla location and to the corporate office. Months passed with not even the most basic acknowledgement.

Yeah, the mantra right now is production, production, production.... the sham that waiting lists are months out is laughable. I know four people that had their MY delivered weeks after online purchase (even though Tesla hypes wait times to be months!) lol.

Wondering if a class action suit will be brought on some of the covered-up vehicle issues or the ‘misled’ information provided to customers? Surely ripe for it given the instances of these I’ve read.

We, too, are already looking into alternatives to Tesla and intend fully to jump to the first EV SUV that comes close.....

Fossil Fool · Jul 24, 2020

You are buying a hope, a dream and technology...not a car. It's like joining a very exclusive and expensive country club.

oaito · Jul 24, 2020

Hi, fellow S85 driver since 2015 either.

Ah, FSD was actually not an option, you are right. Instead the cooperation with mobileye was intended to constantly improve AP1, which was true until Tesla and mobileye parted. IMHO Tesla went full into developing their own AP thus leaving no resorces for significant changes in AP1 or other improvements e.g. for multi point navigation, alternative routes, etc.

Regarding the charging experience today: Also in 2015 the new battery tech and the risk coming with it for the customer was tackled by Elon Musk twofold:

Firstly by extending battery warranty to all cars, even sold ones to unlimited miles and 8 years while sending on the Tesla company blog the reassuring statemement: Any issue due to usage/(super) charging will be covered by us, even if you never read the manual, because our BMS should prevent any damage.

Secondly by stating on the same blog to strive for the best service experience of the world.

Then there were some Taxi and renting services providing great datapoints for the small capacity losses after lots of miles.

Over time, the initial supercharging speed declined a bit, but acceptable.

Then in 2019 a series of firmware updates changed firstly at a significant number of 85s the capacity by limiting the max voltage. My car went from 84% soc to 92% after the first firmware. Then in additional Firmware Updates the charging behaviour was throttled. Both resulted in adding 50%-75% longer charging times on road trips.

When I politely inquired the SeC, I was simply told over and over again, this is "normal degradation".

Combine this with the declined service.

So, I hear you, Muhammad!

Rand West · Jul 24, 2020

I signed a sales contract with a warranty, not a lease. I own the car, and I don't have a sense of humour about that.

The superchargers are good, but were put in a year later than promised when I bought the car. I also don't have a sense of humour about companies lying to make a sale. The cold weather range, cold weather charging, and cabin heat energy usage were all a complete surprise. I've seen lots of posts that state that cold weather operation is fully explained in the manual. No, it's not explained at all, and the car lacks even the instrumentation that it would take to know why it won't charge.

Is this an owners' forum or another shareholder cheerleading site? Because the needs of the two groups are diverging.

Rand West · Jul 24, 2020

... and after you pay the membership fee, finding out that you're only allowed in as a waiter or caddy, because you didn't buy shares back in the day.

Whittier22 · Jul 24, 2020

I have to agree with you Mohammed. I bought a new 2013 Model S. The file on this car is about 2 inches thick. Tesla pushed out these early model cars without thoughtful testing. They relied upon owners to give them feed back on what could be improved or repaired. I noted that later models had shown improvement. The the low beam of my car was useless. I would keep my high beam on all the time which was comparable to the low beam. No one coming from the opposite direction would flick the lights. When they gave me a 2016 loaner car, I found they had improved the headlights. I bought new bulbs and had a friend install them. Huge difference.. I had about 15,000 miles on the car when the main battery died while out of state on vacation. I had frost build up on the inside rear glass. Had to use a scraper. Sometime during 2017 I had noticed what I thought was a crack in the MCU unit. I was told at the time that to replace it would cost $2600. I decided to live with the minor "crack".Fast forward to last month, I noticed the crack had become more wide spread along the outer edge of the screen. I was told that it wasn't a crack but a fluid leak which I am told can be carcinogenic. I couldn't get it off my hands. Only paint thinner would work. On June 29 the new MCU unit was ordered. I have called a dozen times to ask for a "get well" date. I call CA and they refer me back to the local service station. They have no further information. 8 other owners in my service station are also waiting for the MCU unit and their cars are inoperable. I have had mine towed 3 times in the past 6 months. Screen would read "Power off". Mine has been in the driveway for almost a month and I cannot convince Tesla to make a call to the supplier (probably China) and demand a date when this part will be available. It feel early owners who trusted Musk have been thrown under the bus. Once my car is repaired, I will sell. I cannot trust this car. I cannot trust the Tesla culture. I'm tired of the excuses.

cabaa99 · Jul 24, 2020

Log in to the forum of any car manufacturer and you will find similar threads with this topic, and even worse. There will always be 5% of (vocal) customers disappointed with the service or something else. Would be great if they get it right 100% of the time, but not realistic.

mbarsoom · Jul 24, 2020

I agree with much of what has been written about declining customer service and lack of care of the owners particularly the early adopter. Those of us which were early adopters were essentially sold a beta product which is evident by
1) the the capping of the batteries by software
2) declining SC rates
3) the excessively rapid loss of range of the 90kwh batteries which were sold as a range upgrade only to find out after time that they did not retain their range upgrade.

These all point to lack of sufficient testing of the product, instead making people pay to help them test their product and if the product does not perform as expected they just say “it’s normal”

Tesla could go a long way to fix their image by admitting that the the early batteries had flaws and provide a fix. However if you complain they just saw “degradation is not covered”.

They also don’t understand the word normal. This is what would be expected of the car/battery regardless of which battery is installed. Instead they use normal meaning observed. If all the batteries of a particular model all function poorly they use the observed as normal.

It would go a long way if they showed Loyalty to the purchasers that help make them who they are today. But they are more interested in the bottom line rather that a happy loyal customer.

daver3 · Jul 24, 2020

Being an early adopter always comes with risk, but as a Model 3 owner for 18 months I thank you for keeping the boat afloat. My model 3 is the best purchase I ever made. I've had 3 service calls at my house with great results and when I had a problem while driving I pulled over and called service and they said just go to the service center and they'll take care of you without an appointment. At the service center they had a QR code on the door for a service form to fill out online and a drop box for my key. I submitted the form and in 5 minutes received a call for details. They sent me a contract online for a loaner because I didn't have transportation and I waited in my car until the loaner was ready. In 20 minutes I was on my way home in a model S although I did have to figure out the differences in how they worked, but fortunately Siri is pretty good at that kind of stuff. All my communication has been by text, very efficient, no answering phone calls. A few minutes ago I got a text from "Tyler" saying my car would be spending the weekend with them and he would update me on Monday. It appears that service quality is very specific to the location and here in Austin, Tx (home of the new gigafactory) appears to be doing it well.

Buzzz292 · Jul 24, 2020

Buzzz292 · Jul 24, 2020

Q

T3forMe · Jul 24, 2020

WOW, what a bunch of negative nanny's.

I picked up my Model 3 LR RWD on May 31, 2018. A week later I called the service center near me asking to come by the SC and see if they could install my front license plate holder. A real live person answered the phone. I was treated like a VIP and the work was completed in 15 minutes, free of charge. About 18 months later, I called the SC but could not get anyone to answer the phone. I need a referral to a body shop to repair a small curb rash I imparted onto my lower front bumper. Being only 7 miles away, I drove to the SC. A young lady was more than happy to help me and apologized for not answering their phone. A couple of months later, I arranged for home service on line. It was time for a routine service: tire rotation, cabin filter replacement, topping off all fluids and evening out the tire pressure. A small mini van parked in my driveway and work took no more than 40 minutes. The service guy was great and even answered some questions I had. Total for the work performed: $174. He indicated that Tesla recommends routine maintenance every two years. What other care maker has that kind of service?

I fully understand that many of you may need more service than that, especially Tesla owners that drive a lot, that have purchased used cars or for initial issues with their newly purchased Tesla's. I do not have EAP, so I would have no issues there.
I also agree that it would be nice to have a person answer the phone, if for no other reason to direct you to someone that could log in your issue(s) and make an appointment for service. Unlike ICE vehicle manufacturers, Tesla makes their money on selling cars. ICE cars are sold through dealerships that make their money on service and will bend over backwards to make sure that gaining access to the service department is of prime importance. That is why when I call my Lexus dealer, a live person always answers phone.

I think that Tesla believed that most service issues would by like mine-once every two years. It is obvious, that that was a bit short sided.
As was mentioned before, it would be a good idea for Tesla to license third party repair centers to take care of their overflow work. This would free them up to concentrate their efforts on making great cars.

After over two years of ownership, I am still wild about my white M3--the best car I have ever driven.

Thank's to you all of you on the TMC forum for your wisdom and insight. I have learned a lot.

dogphlap · Jul 24, 2020

Your experience exactly mirrors mine but I'm desperately trying to not denigrate Musk himself although I know Musk is 100% in control of what happens in Tesla. I've never had any high hopes for level 4 or 5 autonomous driving, show me when it works 100%. As to the staff attitude it's what you expect when Musk had no compunction about firing the majority of sales centre staff just to make the end of quarter numbers look better. If you despise your staff don't expect them to go the extra mile.

Roys3 · Jul 24, 2020

No worries, if their reputation gets bad enough - they'll just start advertising!
That's how big corporations are. The customers are just milk cows. No one asks milk cows if they're satisfied.
Until things change (and they won't) I will simply go back to the used car market when the time comes.
So far my P3 is still doing fine though, and mobile service has always done a great job. (Knock wood...)

Type 5 · Jul 24, 2020

I don’t need the White Glove treatment. I would appreciate it if Tesla Service would have given me the correct address of the service center. Copied and pasted it - wrong address. I would like to get an appointment in a reasonable amount of time. I documented some problems like 34f temp showing as my interior temp on an 85f day. They told me there is nothing to do: probably my phone has a problem and I should contact Tesla and discuss the problem with the the programmers in CA. I don’t like that I asked for a tire repair - they said it could not be done anywhere but at a Service Center - they recommended that I make an appointment in the App. After they waited 3 hours before a scheduled appointment to cancel it. 6 more days to wait.
It goes on and on.
What a crummy company for service. I’d say it is unacceptable but they are the only game in town.
I love my car, I wish Tesla would use some of their Tech-y *sugar* to bring their service up to the poor standard of any other car company in the 1st World.
Tesla certainly doesn’t offer the after sale care they should.

Finding it hard to remain passionate about Tesla

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