Firmware 8.0

[BertL]

They could, if they hadn't already promised the free service. Towards the end of 2013, they announced it would be free for four years starting Jan 1, 2014 or the date of delivery, whichever is later. So we can expect some sort of announcement towards the end of next year.

My assumption has always been that they will maintain the connection for the sake of the app (and their own data collection efforts) but the Google Map tiles, internet radio, and web browser would all cease to function without a subscription of some kind.

You make a good point that Autopilot may be dependent on it as well, but I can't see them disabling that since it's a paid option.

Thanks for the update on the 1/1/2014 announcement. (It's another example where it's not clearly documented and even Tesla employees were unable to be more specific conveying detail/policy as a result. ) Timing of that expiration date is interesting with M3 availability, isn't it?

FWIW, my MBZ kept the built-in cellular connection alive from their POV even when the optional fee-based services were not renewed by the owner, as I could still push the "i" button and ask questions how to use my MBZ even without the internet, roadside/crash and concierge service. My point being, Tesla could do something similar, allowing them to still collect some amount of data from some amount of the fleet if they needed it, and possibly still send required (safety?) updates OTA to vehicles after the first 4 years to avoid more costly SvC visits, and only provide new functionality if you then purchase the subscription service once you go out of warranty. Sure, there are challenges for Tesla maintaining different firmware packages, but they already have hold-outs opting-out to stay on 6.2 . Sort of "stabilizing" a vehicle's functions once warranty expires for owners that don't want to buy into a subscription service, would be one way Tesla could go that is easy to explain to future owners and is not completely illogical from my POV. The possibilities are limitless.

AP can operate without cellular connectivity, albeit some will say it runs in an improved state when tiles can be downloaded OTA for areas you're in. If I put on my old marketing (and profit generating) hat, that seems like a great reason to promote the value of what "free" service you get during warranty, and then if you'd like to continue Tesla's "expanded functionality" beyond that, Tesla cares about you and provides an optional subscription or bundled service to handle your needs.

Better yet, rather than M3/MY becoming a "mini MS/MX", how about Tesla continuing differentiation between the models with "lifetime update. internet and map service" (or whatever you want to call it) included in the price of the MS/MX, but it's discrete pay-for option(s) of some sort on M3/MY. MS/MX then remains top-of-the-line all-inclusive with the latest and greatest as long as you own it, and not just the more-passenger version, with all-you-can-use SpC, and perhaps greater range compared to M3/MY for future owners wondering what the reasons are to buy one or the other.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Better yet, rather than M3/MY becoming a "mini MS/MX", how about Tesla continuing differentiation between the models with "lifetime update. internet and map service" (or whatever you want to call it) included in the price of the MS/MX, but it's discrete pay-for option(s) of some sort on M3/MY. MS/MX then remains top-of-the-line all-inclusive with the latest and greatest as long as you own it, and not just the more-passenger version, with all-you-can-use SpC, and perhaps greater range compared to M3/MY for future owners wondering what the reasons are to buy one or the other.

I've had offline navigation on my Android phone for years. There are free options as well as ones you can pay for. I prefer using these apps to Google Maps since they allow me to download maps of entire continents at once (or country or state, etc.) and don't require a constant data connection to work. My offline navigation apps still allow for traffic to be displayed if a data connection is available. If I'm by a city where there could be traffic issues, I'll enable data and be able to avoid traffic. If I'm driving across Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, etc. then I can usually keep data off and don't pay a cent for information that I don't need. If Google Maps would ever enable true offline navigation of this sort, it would greatly reduce the amount of data that is used for navigation. Hopefully this could also lower the price of what Tesla is paying for data services and in turn, keep the cost low or free for the owner.

Tesla could easily enable features in an à la carte model or allow the user to prepay for data as they will probably enable for prepaid Supercharging. I don't want to start paying $$ a month for constant data services for my car. I do use prepaid data on my cellphone, so I suppose we could still use a wireless hotspot to allow the car to connect for traffic data, maps, etc. if Tesla's cellular data wasn't available.

If Tesla and SpaceX were to launch a network of LEO satellites, they would be able to offer data services pretty much everywhere and not need to rely on the cellphone network. While this would be costly to set up, it could provide Tesla with realtime information for the entire fleet. Perhaps they could continue to offer data services for free similar to the many services that Google and others provide.

 

[msnow]

I've had offline navigation on my Android phone for years. There are free options as well as ones you can pay for. I prefer using these apps to Google Maps since they allow me to download maps of entire continents at once (or country or state, etc.) and don't require a constant data connection to work. My offline navigation apps still allow for traffic to be displayed if a data connection is available. If I'm by a city where there could be traffic issues, I'll enable data and be able to avoid traffic. If I'm driving across Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, etc. then I can usually keep data off and don't pay a cent for information that I don't need. If Google Maps would ever enable true offline navigation of this sort, it would greatly reduce the amount of data that is used for navigation. Hopefully this could also lower the price of what Tesla is paying for data services and in turn, keep the cost low or free for the owner.

Tesla could easily enable features in an à la carte model or allow the user to prepay for data as they will probably enable for prepaid Supercharging. I don't want to start paying $$ a month for constant data services for my car. I do use prepaid data on my cellphone, so I suppose we could still use a wireless hotspot to allow the car to connect for traffic data, maps, etc. if Tesla's cellular data wasn't available.

If Tesla and SpaceX were to launch a network of LEO satellites, they would be able to offer data services pretty much everywhere and not need to rely on the cellphone network. While this would be costly to set up, it could provide Tesla with realtime information for the entire fleet. Perhaps they could continue to offer data services for free similar to the many services that Google and others provide.

The route navigation that Tesla uses is already offline. It's the Garmin/Navigon map database you get refreshed every couple of years and what you see on the Instrument Cluster and overlaid on the Google Maps display. They did it this way to allow for navigation turn by turn when cell connectivity is unavailable.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

The route navigation that Tesla uses is already offline. It's the Garmin/Navigon map database you get refreshed every couple of years and what you see on the Instrument Cluster and overlaid on the Google Maps display. They did it this way to allow for navigation turn by turn when cell connectivity is unavailable.

Yeah, I know. It would be nice if they could truly make Google Maps available offline as well. Google Maps does have an offline mode but it is more "metro" area sized, not country or continent sized.

 

[Boatguy]

Yeah, I know. It would be nice if they could truly make Google Maps available offline as well. Google Maps does have an offline mode but it is more "metro" area sized, not country or continent sized.

Google doesn't want an offline mode because selling advertisers your location is part of their business model. Having you be "offline" cuts into their profit. It's critical whenever thinking of Google to remember that we are not the customers, we are the product.

That aside, I think @BertL @MorrisonHiker @msnow are all pointing out that Tesla has lots of opportunity to unbundle for pricing and product line differentiation. The current marketing is going to evolve a lot in the next five years.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Yes, I suppose SpaceX and Tesla have been doing "OK": new companies started from scratch by a guy with zero experience in those industries and zero experience even running a manufacturing company, and in just over a decade both companies have disrupted and revolutionized automobiles and rockets.

They are doing "OK", that's for sure. And by the way, cars and rockets are "complex things".

So now that we've got the strawman destruction of an argument I never made out of the way... How many of those complex automobiles have been delivered on time? Have any even been close to being on time? By my count all three models so far have been seriously behind schedule, two of them to the point of nearly bankrupting the company (one definitively at least, the other reportedly).

None of that would matter if Tesla could support itself right now, but it can't. They need additional funding this year or next to make it to the Model 3 launch date, and unless they get a sweetheart investment, it's likely any serious delay in the Model 3 would have substantial ramifications for both shareholders and all of us owners.

It's a big deal. I keep looking for some, any, indication that they're setting achievable expectations, and I keep getting let down.

 

[Todd Burch]

The back pedaling on 8.0 has begun before it's even released. Now Elon's telling us we should be looking ahead to 8.1. They're obviously pulling features to get 8.0 out this year and support the next stock offering.

I've been following Tesla since 2009 and have followed TSLA (and owned it) since the IPO. Tesla has really not had a software release that had a significant impact on the stock. To claim they're fiddling with the releases to manipulate the stock is a little beyond silly.

 

[Boatguy]

I've been following Tesla since 2009 and have followed TSLA (and owned it) since the IPO. Tesla has really not had a software release that had a significant impact on the stock. To claim they're fiddling with the releases to manipulate the stock is a little beyond silly.

Sorry for my poor communication. I think 8.0 is about adding sizzle to the company in advance of the new stock offering which they are making to raise cash for the M3. Not to manipulate the price, but to generate interest in the offering. Of course the offering will go to institutional buyers, retail rarely participates meaningfully in an offering. It's something new for the underwriter's to talk about and to support the overall TSLA story, in addition to the obvious main message around M3 pre-orders.

 

[3Victoria]

@Gizmotoy how's this: Musk Urges Tesla Workers to Cut Costs Ahead of Fundraising Round

 

[Todd Burch]

Sorry for my poor communication. I think 8.0 is about adding sizzle to the company in advance of the new stock offering which they are making to raise cash for the M3. Not to manipulate the price, but to generate interest in the offering. Of course the offering will go to institutional buyers, retail rarely participates meaningfully in an offering. It's something new for the underwriter's to talk about and to support the overall TSLA story, in addition to the obvious main message around M3 pre-orders.

Well I doubt that improved obstacle detection and the ability to navigate onramps and offramps is really going to generate much of a media blitz. Certainly nothing like the intro of autopilot did.

 

[msnow]

Well I doubt that improved obstacle detection and the ability to navigate onramps and offramps is really going to generate much of a media blitz. Certainly nothing like the intro of autopilot did.

It could have an indirect impact to the stock in the sense that some of these AP fixes are likely coordinated with the regulators so if they don't come through a regulator could force a recall.

 

[thegruf]

@Gizmotoy how's this: Musk Urges Tesla Workers to Cut Costs Ahead of Fundraising Round

I think it is really positive that Musk is providing direct inspirational leadership, and better still that he thinks it is achieveable that they can achieve opeational profitability which frankly would be astonishing at this stage in their development.

Go Elon and team Tesla best of luck guys.

 

[thegruf]

I know Elon has talked of Lidar type simulation with Radar (hopefully they have managed to patent this)., but I for one never expected this to be released so soon in v8.

I understood v8 to be mainly a UI (including media player/phone integration) and underlying significant software restructure intially as trailled by Elon in the Paris Q+A, more recently comments suggest further AP improvements.

v8 could now be massive, even if split into v8 and 8.1, however as there is no granular detail there is no guaranteed deliverables therefore there can be no let down if some features deferred to a v8.1 release, suggestions that the share price will be affected are improbable, new sales though could be supported by the additional marketing power of more new features.

 

[Boatguy]

Well I doubt that improved obstacle detection and the ability to navigate onramps and offramps is really going to generate much of a media blitz. Certainly nothing like the intro of autopilot did.

OK, it's probably just a coincidence that 8.0 is coming out in Q3 and has nothing to do with the upcoming stock offering. Bloomberg's article is much more articulate than I am regarding Elon's efforts to boost Q3 cash flow and do as much window dressing as possible before the next stock offering.

 

[Gizmotoy]

@Gizmotoy how's this: Musk Urges Tesla Workers to Cut Costs Ahead of Fundraising Round

A good start! Thanks for the link.

 

[Ingineer]

I saw an EAP version, and the icons are no longer greyscale.

 

[CuriousG]

I saw an EAP version, and the icons are no longer greyscale.

I think the debate was whether greyscaling was only in valet. If this was Tesla's intent I think it is a good addition to remind users it is in valet mode.

 

[commasign]

I saw an EAP version, and the icons are no longer greyscale.

Please tell us more about what you saw.

 

[Chasedrgc1223]

I saw an EAP version, and the icons are no longer greyscale.

Any other details you could share?

 

[Ingineer]

The media player was the most striking change. It's been totally redone. Everything else appeared to be just a re-skin. US spec car, but only had Spotify in there and no Slacker. I would assume this means we are probably losing slacker, which sucks.

The IC graphics were also overhauled. Better looking, but nothing earth shattering.