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Firmware Bug Reporting to Tesla

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by green1, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    I tend to agree with Andyw2100...

    From my experience running local service locations and national remote technical support teams, it's generally better having a centralized team (think Tesla NA Tech Support) that can act as a clearing house -- if set up properly, they become more experienced and gain a "feel" of what's happening and what's most important to the entire global customer set at any given point in time. They also can do aggregated trends a lot better that need to make their way to mgmt for prioritization or action. Central teams are the best and most efficient first contact point for customers that want to deal in email, TXT, and social media. They can also many times handle customer inquiries and basic problems in real-time without a customer waiting. Central teams can also more easily connect with development on a regular basis, and it's not uncommon to expect some number of the Remote (as in over-the-phone or email) Tech Support personnel to have some amount of software background. Central teams can also queue-up or transfer problems to a SC if it needs a physical interaction to take place (like has happened to me once and worked VERY well with a SC Advisor calling me as promised the next morning at 7:30 after he looked at my logs).

    OTOH, SCs are perfect for customers that want to deal with someone face-to-face. They are also the best place to deal with anything requiring physical hardware to be inspected or replaced. Sis can feed data back to a central repository where it can be analyzed for trends and kicked-up to mgmt or back to development as need be. What they can't do is talk to anything except their smaller POV re trends or experiences, but they can be the recipient of aggregated and analyzed data back from the central location to help with knowledge transfer at a local level. SCs can't do anything related to firmware or software (other than reloading it), and as many of us I think believe, firmware is the crux of what makes a Tesla tick -- which points me back to a central location for that generally being the best place to deal with it unless a customer simply demands face-to-face interaction (but then, they should not expect they'll be dealing with a person that knows the innards of the software or can personally effect a change to it either.)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Some things may be, but I don't believe for a moment it's everything. See my posts HERE from yesterday -- those went from me to a central location and stayed there. (Post #34 is the guts of what I sent, Post #38 is the centralized reply I received.)
     
  2. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    From all the responses above, sounds like the feedback ends up in the trash bin.

    Why doesn't Tesla have a open bugzilla to file reports against?
     
  3. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Not true for me. All of mine have triggered an email to me and a phone call. Zero were ignored.
     
  4. BertL

    BertL Active Member

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    I don't agree, but as I said, we all have our opinions, and elect what actions we do and don't take trying to improve things.

    I'm not aware of another luxury brand such as Lexus, MBZ or BMW that do either -- or frankly another auto mfgr that does. If I were Tesla, I wouldn't want to be first with such a thing, as it would provide a company-sponsored public forum for aggregating problems and complaints clearly visible to the Press and public to grouse even more about; lessen Tesla's ability to choose what they do and don't consider problems; either get into a war of words with posters if they choose to respond to an entry or give the appearance nothing is being done if they don't reply; and then perhaps never elect to implement or resolve everything that anyone ever inputs for any number of reasons. There are many more negatives than positives doing what you suggest, if I put my corporate hat on. As a customer, I don't want a list like that made public because it would turn into a food fight no different than some threads do here from time-to-time, and take resources away that could be used to improve things. I would hope Tesla has an internal method of tracking problems, complaints, and subjects -- the question to me (which I'll never know the answer to) is if they do anything with that aggregated data if it's not causing significant funds to be expended where a rework is mandatory to save money (e.g. early windshields, door handles, motors, etc.) or the issue is not related to AutoPilot.

    At least with Tesla we have hope every time a new OTA update is delivered -- other mfgrs, if it's software or firmware, you get ZERO updates for the life of your vehicle unless there is a specific recall or you physically go in for Service, have a specific problem and THAT specific problem happens to have a firmware update to resolve the problem -- which in my experience isn't all that often. As I've said in other threads, most of us are a bit spoiled with the POTENTIAL Tesla has providing OTA updates unlike their competition, and that Elon has exuded over the years about continual improvement (some of which perhaps we've seen, others to the points here and in other threads, maybe not so much.)
     
  5. simonog

    simonog Member

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    Ditto.

    It must, however, be a nightmare for them to differentiate between things where basically the answer is RTFM and those that are material. I'd want triage carried out somewhere perhaps in the time zone of the issue.

    Tesla are evolving their organisation (regularly it seems!). With X and 3 delivering step changes in volumes, the transition from startup to mature large scale in a pretty compressed timescale.
     
  6. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    You make a good point about time zone which makes me think about the centralized model Andy mentioned upthread. Tesla, being a global company, has many things such as location, language and time zones that make a regional or local solution more doable because of these factors.
     
  7. jgs

    jgs Active Member

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    That potential is exactly why Tesla shouldn't be measured against other auto manufacturers, but rather against software manufacturers, for such issues. I'm not saying that an open bugzilla is the right solution, but it does seem pretty clear that a black hole is not the right solution. I've read various comments to the effect that a Tesla car is really a software platform that happens to have wheels. While overstated for effect, there is a germ of truth, and I think the expectations that arise as a result are being expressed in this thread.
     
  8. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Those other companies don't understand how to do software at it will be their demise. Tesla is supposed to be a silicon valley company. Even at Apple, they have a bug database. Although you can't search it, you can certainly file a bug, and be given a ticket number where Apple developers can ask you for more information or even fix the bug.
     
  9. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Rather than designing a problem solution platform *for* Tesla lets first agree that they need one that works for them and us. It makes no difference to me nor do I care which model they select. What's currently in place, however, clearly isn't working.
     
  10. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Voltage makes me tingle.

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    I reported a bug when 6.0 came out--my backup camera lines were underneath the video, not over it. Not only did I get a call about it from Tesla within hours, but engineering even did a special build for my car and pushed it within hours.
     
  11. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    With the bug report via voice?
     
  12. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Voltage makes me tingle.

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    No, I believe I called Tesla technical support. I didn't realize the comment was specifically referring to issues reported via voice.

    As for issues that I've reported via voice, I'd say about 1/3 have been addressed in software updates (buzzing near A pillar, inoperable mute while parking sensors are visible), and the remaining 2/3 have as of yet gone unfixed. Of course there's no way to know if any of those were fixed as a result of voice reports without Tesla releasing that info, and I don't presume that will happen. Either way, I'll continue to report via voice under the assumption that it goes somewhere.

    Just because someone at Tesla said that info goes to the junk bin doesn't mean that it does. I can hope, at least.
     
  13. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

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    Recently I sent an e-mail reporting how poorly the trip planner and worked on a recent trip. At the first supercharger, we stayed much longer than the trip planner recommended and built up a larger cushion. And even by doing that, we had to lower speed 15MPH below the posted speed limit, for most of the trip to the next supercharger, in order to avoid running out of charge. Not only didn't the trip planner make a reasonable estimate of energy needed for the leg, the software never triggered a warning that we were at risk. If we had waited until the trip planner saw the projected range would drop below 5% (we prefer 10% as the cushion), we would have had to drop speed much more than 15MPH in order to make it [not a good thing to do on an interstate highway with only two lanes in each direction.]

    I sent an e-mail to Tesla - and quickly got a call back. And instead of trying to get more information about our experience, I was given an explanation of how to bring up the energy graph and watch the giant trip graph (using up half of the 17" screen) in order to manually detect range problems.

    Tesla's customer support group always does a good job in providing phone support, but they aren't the engineering team. And it's not clear how much feedback is actually getting back to the engineering group - through e-mails, telephone support or the on board voice "bug reports".

    And because some of the bugs in the software (like the long standing phantom USB song playback overnight) don't get fixed quickly, it doesn't inspire much confidence in how problem reports are getting processed (or prioritized for fixes).

    Tesla can and should do much better...
     
  14. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    You guys really stretch things. I wouldn't want to project ending up anywhere with less than 25%/60 miles left. Not unless I was in a region that was always warm and never had bad weather. If it starts raining/snowing you're SOL, even 25% frankly is dangerous.

    Hope you had your hazards on at 15 under. Getting rear ended by someone going 30 mph differential becomes a real problem.
     
  15. MikeBur

    MikeBur ManualPilot

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    A lot of these comments make me feel like Tesla needs to share some of our pain. Sometimes self-effacing humour can help, which reminded me of an old video which was so therapeutic

    <Just substitute Microsoft for Tesla, ie. :%s/Microsoft/Tesla Firmware Team/g in your mind while watching>

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D28FkfJiauk
     
  16. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    ^^^ lol, perfect!
     
  17. MarcG

    MarcG Active Member

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    FYI, a rep (she's a "service concierge") from my service center reached out to me this morning regarding a bug I reported last Friday.

    They are looking into it (the "shop foreman") and will get back to me shortly.

    In this case, it may well be fixed by a software update according to this thread. If so, it may very well be fixed by having the service center push the update to my car.

    Let's wait and see if it does (and if they do push it). I'll report back with progress.
     

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