First 2022 VINs (and changes) discussion / Thread

[Stook02ss]

I agree. The fact Tesla MYLR backlog is now like 8 months at their current prices should be indication enough that the tax credit is not needed. Tax credits are to help incentivise and clearly, EVs don't need incentives for people to adopt. And we know what Tesla is going to do IF the tax bill passes, continue to raise their prices so some of those tax incentives that will be coming from tax payers like all of us will indirectly be fed back to Tesla (which I'm okay with as a shareholder. Hahaha).

Yup, 100% agree. You also know Tesla isn't stupid enough to think these tax credits will persist for the stipulated length of time. At some point they'll get rolled back... or so I'd think. If you're Tesla you raise the price some and use the massive influx of new cash to continue expanding your empire, perhaps even diversify. Use the totally unnecessary additional funding as capital to not just expand their automotive business, but every other sector they are getting their hands in.

Sold my Tesla shares when they doubled... felt soooooooooo good at the time, which was over 18 months ago. SMH.

 

[Budshark]

There were two versions of the EV tax bill - Senate and House. The one you're referring to is the Senate bill, which makes it retroactive to purchases after May 25. That version is dead, sadly. The revision that still exists is the House version - which applies to vehicles purchased from January 1, 2022. That's what everyone is waiting to see pass and thus there will be a lot of holds on Tesla deliveries as @tangible1 stated.

Dead is a stretch. The Senate simply took reconciliation and is letting the House draft the bill. Then it goes to the Senate where they can strike or add back in their edits. Then back to the house. So while it can still be added back in, it’s doubtful anyone cares enough to do so. Only Tesla would benefit from retroactive and there are no union lobbyists fighting on behalf of Tesla.

 

[tangible1]

There were two versions of the EV tax bill - Senate and House. The one you're referring to is the Senate bill, which makes it retroactive to purchases after May 25. That version is dead, sadly. The revision that still exists is the House version - which applies to vehicles purchased from January 1, 2022. That's what everyone is waiting to see pass and thus there will be a lot of holds on Tesla deliveries as @tangible1 stated.

As a further update to my order process, Tesla is pushing yet ANOTHER car at me for delivery shortly.
I've gotten a call from my SA, whom I met with just yesterday, to clarify my status.
Status: push any delivery to January.
If I go to the back of the line, well, I can wait. I'll get a better MY the later it goes out.

 

[Tesraki]

Dead is a stretch. The Senate simply took reconciliation and is letting the House draft the bill. Then it goes to the Senate where they can strike or add back in their edits. Then back to the house. So while it can still be added back in, it’s doubtful anyone cares enough to do so. Only Tesla would benefit from retroactive and there are no union lobbyists fighting on behalf of Tesla.

Don't see how Tesla would benefit from retroactivity on the tax credit. Credits go directly to the taxpayer for tax year 2021, and Tesla is sold out for the remainder of the year.

I'm pulling for the Senate version, which cuts the union-made sweetener down to $2,500 while keeping the maximum at $12,500, which would net $10,000 for Tesla buyers. However, I'm still pessimistic about the bill's chances, especially now that the infrastructure bill passed.

 

[tangible1]

Don't see how Tesla would benefit from retroactivity on the tax credit. Credits go directly to the taxpayer for tax year 2021, and Tesla is sold out for the remainder of the year.

I'm pulling for the Senate version, which cuts the union-made sweetener down to $2,500 while keeping the maximum at $12,500, which would net $10,000 for Tesla buyers. However, I'm still pessimistic about the bill's chances, especially now that the infrastructure bill passed.

There are so many pig-troughs in the next bill that it will be easy for the whole thing to get killed.
All it takes is for one item to get opposed and the whole enchilada gets spoiled.
It's going to be quite a show in WDC these next few weeks.

Since Mid-Terms are next year, and so many are up for re-election, there's strong desire to get some giveaways out there.
It's gonna be yin vs yang on the Congressional Agenda.

 

[Budshark]

Don't see how Tesla would benefit from retroactivity on the tax credit. Credits go directly to the taxpayer for tax year 2021, and Tesla is sold out for the remainder of the year.

I'm pulling for the Senate version, which cuts the union-made sweetener down to $2,500 while keeping the maximum at $12,500, which would net $10,000 for Tesla buyers. However, I'm still pessimistic about the bill's chances, especially now that the infrastructure bill passed.

It benefits Tesla because the 400,000 buyers get a big bump. Standard marketing halo effect. Those buyers are more likely to buy again with their windfall. And so it trickles down with more Tesla leaning buyers putting more Tesla cars in the market and buying more cars. Economics 101.

But again. The Senate version doesn’t promote unions. Hence it won’t pass. Not enough energy for the fight.

 

[Stook02ss]

Don't see how Tesla would benefit from retroactivity on the tax credit. Credits go directly to the taxpayer for tax year 2021, and Tesla is sold out for the remainder of the year.

I'm pulling for the Senate version, which cuts the union-made sweetener down to $2,500 while keeping the maximum at $12,500, which would net $10,000 for Tesla buyers. However, I'm still pessimistic about the bill's chances, especially now that the infrastructure bill passed.

I'm pretty sure Tesla can claim credit for any car leased.... so they'd definitely be able to make bank if that bill passed. This is how it works for current companies. For example, if you lease a Jeep Wrangler 4xe, the company gets the $7,500 credit... but they can reflect that in the lease price. It's why you see special lease rates for certain EV's. Take a look at the Mach-E order page - if you select lease you get a "$5,000" discount. Really that $5,000 is Ford claiming the $7,500 tax credit lol.

Also, I've read a few different takes on how the tax credit works. One take is that it only benefits you if you owe taxes at the end of the year... that is to say you need to cut the fed a check. If you already paid your taxes and don't have a balance, you're apparently screwed. No joke, I think even a Reuters article said that to take advantage of you need to be sure to have an unpaid balance equal to the value of the credit going into 2022.....

 

[BGOwner]

I'm pretty sure Tesla can claim credit for any car leased.... so they'd definitely be able to make bank if that bill passed. This is how it works for current companies. For example, if you lease a Jeep Wrangler 4xe, the company gets the $7,500 credit... but they can reflect that in the lease price. It's why you see special lease rates for certain EV's. Take a look at the Mach-E order page - if you select lease you get a "$5,000" discount. Really that $5,000 is Ford claiming the $7,500 tax credit lol.

Also, I've read a few different takes on how the tax credit works. One take is that it only benefits you if you owe taxes at the end of the year... that is to say you need to cut the fed a check. If you already paid your taxes and don't have a balance, you're apparently screwed. No joke, I think even a Reuters article said that to take advantage of you need to be sure to have an unpaid balance equal to the value of the credit going into 2022.....

Not exactly correct, it is if you have a tax burden. So, if you owe taxes at all(not your bottom line return), the credit is deducted from that. Sort of hard to explain but a CPA friend who is also getting a second Tesla explained to me if you owe 1000 more at end of year, but your tax liability was say 15,000, you would end up with a $7000 credit, assuming EV tax credit is $8000

 

[Tesraki]

I'm pretty sure Tesla can claim credit for any car leased.... so they'd definitely be able to make bank if that bill passed. This is how it works for current companies. For example, if you lease a Jeep Wrangler 4xe, the company gets the $7,500 credit... but they can reflect that in the lease price.

Also, I've read a few different takes on how the tax credit works. One take is that it only benefits you if you owe taxes at the end of the year... that is to say you need to cut the fed a check. If you already paid your taxes and don't have a balance, you're apparently screwed. No joke, I think even a Reuters article said that to take advantage of you need to be sure to have an unpaid balance equal to the value of the credit going into 2022.....

Good point on the credit for leased cars.

Latest House version makes the tax credit fully refundable, meaning even if your tax liability is less than the amount of the credit you would get a refund for the difference. The EV credit currently in effect (except for Tesla and GM buyers) was a credit only against taxes owed. A fully refundable credit is a lot more of an incentive to buy.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-house-bill-biden-refundable-cash/

 

[Stook02ss]

Good point on the credit for leased cars.

Latest House version makes the tax credit fully refundable, meaning even if your tax liability is less than the amount of the credit you would get a refund for the difference. The EV credit currently in effect (except for Tesla and GM buyers) was a credit only against taxes owed. A fully refundable credit is a lot more of an incentive to buy.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-house-bill-biden-refundable-cash/

Nice, very nice, didn't know it was refundable. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[SFNM Jack]

The Tesla EV Tax Credit

The Clean Energy Act for America would have a positive impact on Tesla by making most Tesla cars eligible for an $8,000 (House version) or $10,000 (Senate version) refundable tax credit and handicapping Chinese EVs from entering the US market. However, Tesla does not employ unionized labor, so...

www.voltequity.com

This is a very good breakdown of what currently sitting out there, house vs senate. It is a few days old but accurate. This bill WILL go to reconciliation between the house and senate. What happens there is anybodys guess and any speculation on that is just that, speculation. Some really good arguments for and against all of the provisions. I was a volunteer staffer for a Colorado house member reviewing bills as the related to Tech issues for a few years. You can’t (actually you probably can) believe the back and forth on this stuff and little to none of it takes into consideration what is good for the average Joe. And that goes for either party.

I’m very jealous of all of you guys who are getting DD’s and refusing them. I’ve gotten inside my EDD window twice now only to wake up one morning hoping for a VIN only to have the EDD push out several weeks. I was initially thinking about pushing my date to wait on WDC if it came in at the end of the year. Now, I’d take my car tomorrow if I could just get my hands on one. My delivery is Colorado Springs as the Santa Fe, NM store isn’t set up for deliveries yet. Telsa, If you’re listening, send a MYLR white, all black with 20’s and a hitch to COS and I’ll be there tomorrow to pick it up, cash in hand !

 

[Brolan]

My delivery date is tomorrow. Damn the tax credits, full speed ahead!

 

[oktane]

They just bumped the price up another $1k, again!

 

[kbmoon]

They just bumped the price up another $1k, again!

Damn. Well now I'm really glad I accepted delivery. Won't have any regrets ever with potential tax credit.

 

[kithytom]

Damn. Well now I'm really glad I accepted delivery. Won't have any regrets ever with potential tax credit.

accept delivery or not, your price was locked when pre-ordered right?

 

[Apathy]

VIN received this morning in app.

7SAYGDEFXNFxxxxxx

MYP ordered 10/13
Delivery 11/25 - 11/29

Looks like a 2022?

 

[BGOwner]

accept delivery or not, your price was locked when pre-ordered right?

Right

 

[kbmoon]

accept delivery or not, your price was locked when pre-ordered right?

Yeah. I was debating holding off for tax credit but just decided to enjoy the car now.

 

[Stook02ss]

I think the price hikes are done for now. The last little 1K bump was a final tweak.
Hikes were initially to manage the backlog surge, then later to adjust for the tax rebate/credit possibility.
I don't think the 8K credit will survive, but I can believe 4500 or so, and that seems the amount reflected in Tesla's price adjustments.
The CBO funding analysis would show the whopper that an 8-12.5K gift would cost. The BBB is anything but a sure thing. Something, yes...but everything? Not a good bet.

This did not age well at all...

 

[advocate8]

The Tesla EV Tax Credit

The Clean Energy Act for America would have a positive impact on Tesla by making most Tesla cars eligible for an $8,000 (House version) or $10,000 (Senate version) refundable tax credit and handicapping Chinese EVs from entering the US market. However, Tesla does not employ unionized labor, so...

www.voltequity.com

This is a very good breakdown of what currently sitting out there, house vs senate. It is a few days old but accurate. This bill WILL go to reconciliation between the house and senate. What happens there is anybodys guess and any speculation on that is just that, speculation. Some really good arguments for and against all of the provisions. I was a volunteer staffer for a Colorado house member reviewing bills as the related to Tech issues for a few years. You can’t (actually you probably can) believe the back and forth on this stuff and little to none of it takes into consideration what is good for the average Joe. And that goes for either party.

I’m very jealous of all of you guys who are getting DD’s and refusing them. I’ve gotten inside my EDD window twice now only to wake up one morning hoping for a VIN only to have the EDD push out several weeks. I was initially thinking about pushing my date to wait on WDC if it came in at the end of the year. Now, I’d take my car tomorrow if I could just get my hands on one. My delivery is Colorado Springs as the Santa Fe, NM store isn’t set up for deliveries yet. Telsa, If you’re listening, send a MYLR white, all black with 20’s and a hitch to COS and I’ll be there tomorrow to pick it up, cash in hand !

It will def go to reconciliation but... The whole thing hinges on Manchin and he is making noises almost daily that signal he won’t vote for any significant bill. I would give change to the current EV credits maybe a 10 percent chance.