First 2022 VINs (and changes) discussion / Thread

[advocate8]

I actually hope you're right. I think this whole EV credit ridiculous (demand already exceeds supply and companies are already making capital investments in EV tech, so why do we need it). The CBO analysis and other independent analyses show the entire proposal will cost far more than projected by the admin.

However, I'm a federal auditor (not IRS) and I can tell you that common sense and fiscal responsibility are in short supply in DC... not as if that's news worthy lol.

Demand exceeds supply only for a fraction of the US market, and for cars priced at over $50,000. Demand needs to exceed supply of great $25k-$30,000 EVs and do so for several years, not while production capacity is tiny, which for EVs it is.

 

[advocate8]

Well thank you sir, I appreciate the input. I knew there were two different versions, I just didn't realize which one was dead. Sorry to hear it isn't in the cards for you... but then again I think the whole thing is silly. EV's are selling out faster than companies can make them and companies have already invested tens of billions in EV research and development - the sector really doesn't need any incentivization at this point. I'll still take advantage of it if it presents itself, but I just don't see the need.

Buyers who aren’t wealthy will need incentives for years to come. And Tesla being sold out of its modest production capacity of $50K and up cars is scarcely universal adoption by motorists.

 

[Stook02ss]

Buyers who aren’t wealthy will need incentives for years to come. And Tesla being sold out of its modest production capacity of $50K and up cars is scarcely universal adoption by motorists.

Sure, buyers who aren't wealthy do... but that's not who these EV refunds benefit. They benefit the manufacturer that raises the prices on their products. Sure, the consumer may benefit a little, but there's nothing that keeps the manufacturer from taking that money for themselves by just upping the price. Moreover, $10,000 is an absurdly high refund. A few thousand maybe, but ten thousand? That's just nuts.

 

[tangible1]

This did not age well at all...

It's Tesla. They're learning as they go.
Another 1K bump is again tweaking, not major.
No one is cancelling because it went up a grand. If anything they're being encouraged to Order Now.

And the legislation remains a muddled mess.
To be continued....

 

[SFNM Jack]

It will def go to reconciliation but... The whole thing hinges on Manchin and he is making noises almost daily that signal he won’t vote for any significant bill. I would give change to the current EV credits maybe a 10 percent chance.

I think we’ll see something but as I said before anything you or I say is speculation. I think we all understand that, not being preachy. So, let me speculate and suggest sound policy. Of course that will never happen because our elected officials are either a) no very intelligent ands don’t understand the issues, b) are corrupt (looking at you Manchin), or c)are partisan hacks and won’t support any ideas from the other party no matter how sound.

I give some kind of modification to the EV credit a 60/40 success probability. Manchin announced today that the Union bonus is “un-American” so we may see that cost come out of the bill. With that in mind the right thing to do here is to push the income cap down to say 150 grand. Incentivize those that might want an EV but with 2 kids in college and a mortgage can’t quite swing it. Those of us punching up towards the half a million mark in income don’t need this money and it’s not going to stop any of us from getting the car we want or much else for that matter so lets reward the behaviors we want and not pay extra to those already on board and who have the means. Also, I’d take the luxury’s EV vehicles out of the mix. What’s in the bill today is pretty good from that perspective but more could be done to force open the lower end market for cars like the Bolt and so on. The average Toyota Highlander is 50ish give or take. We should be pushing those families looking at an ICE crossover in the mid 50’s towards an EV with generous incentives that make a Y or Toyota BZ or I.D. or Subaru affordable and make cars like the leaf and the bolt a a no brainer for those with budget constraints. As an example, make the bolt a $18,000 car with a hefty tax refund, not credit to everyone who buys one. This is policy that accomplishes the goal of front loading EV sales in the US so we get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible. Yes, I know some of those cars mentioned aren’t here yet but this is a long term project. Policy should focus on horizons beyond the end of our noses. Those cars will be coming in force soon. We need to move the part of the market that is not in play today.

 

[Michael Y 2020]

I think we’ll see something but as I said before anything you or I say is speculation. I think we all understand that, not being preachy. So, let me speculate and suggest sound policy. Of course that will never happen because our elected officials are either a) no very intelligent ands don’t understand the issues, b) are corrupt (looking at you Manchin), or c)are partisan hacks and won’t support any ideas from the other party no matter how sound.

I give some kind of modification to the EV credit a 60/40 success probability. Manchin announced today that the Union bonus is “un-American” so we may see that cost come out of the bill. With that in mind the right thing to do here is to push the income cap down to say 150 grand. Incentivize those that might want an EV but with 2 kids in college and a mortgage can’t quite swing it. Those of us punching up towards the half a million mark in income don’t need this money and it’s not going to stop any of us from getting the car we want or much else for that matter so lets reward the behaviors we want and not pay extra to those already on board and who have the means. Also, I’d take the luxury’s EV vehicles out of the mix. What’s in the bill today is pretty good from that perspective but more could be done to force open the lower end market for cars like the Bolt and so on. The average Toyota Highlander is 50ish give or take. We should be pushing those families looking at an ICE crossover in the mid 50’s towards an EV with generous incentives that make a Y or Toyota BZ or I.D. or Subaru affordable and make cars like the leaf and the bolt a a no brainer for those with budget constraints. As an example, make the bolt a $18,000 car with a hefty tax refund, not credit to everyone who buys one. This is policy that accomplishes the goal of front loading EV sales in the US so we get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible. Yes, I know some of those cars mentioned aren’t here yet but this is a long term project. Policy should focus on horizons beyond the end of our noses. Those cars will be coming in force soon. We need to move the part of the market that is not in play today.

I agree with most of your input/thoughts. I believe more fall into your category B than just the one you name. Also, we will not get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible through purchasing an EV. All EVs need electricity and most electricity comes from fossil fuels. Sure, we reduce the exhaust component out of the climate change debate, but ending fossil fuels any time soon is not likely.

Initially, I was looking at upgrading to a BMW/Lexus/Audi SUV, all require high octane fuel and the regular oil and engine maintenance. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to buy his BMWi drive so he could buy another Tesla. Basically, same price for each, just no maintenance and a bit more on the electric home bill. Plus, with Tesla's you get a lot of tech that doesn't require high octane fuel costs.

I also feel that anytime the gov't subsidies anything, am thinking tobacco, etc it is just foolish. Let the market work by itself and not by gov't handouts that often times really don't work, thinking Solyndra nearly half a Billion poof. Not everyone is capable of owning a Tesla or a home as we've seen in the banking/housing bubble burp.

 

[Stook02ss]

It's Tesla. They're learning as they go.
Another 1K bump is again tweaking, not major.
No one is cancelling because it went up a grand. If anything they're being encouraged to Order Now.

And the legislation remains a muddled mess.
To be continued....

It's 2k in 2 weeks, that's pretty aggressive pricing. I'm all in support of pricing it according to the supply and demand... so they can have at it. I was just pointing out that they have and, imo, will continue to increase prices. The MYP in particular is due for another increase hear shortly.

 

[advocate8]

I think we’ll see something but as I said before anything you or I say is speculation. I think we all understand that, not being preachy. So, let me speculate and suggest sound policy. Of course that will never happen because our elected officials are either a) no very intelligent ands don’t understand the issues, b) are corrupt (looking at you Manchin), or c)are partisan hacks and won’t support any ideas from the other party no matter how sound.

I give some kind of modification to the EV credit a 60/40 success probability. Manchin announced today that the Union bonus is “un-American” so we may see that cost come out of the bill. With that in mind the right thing to do here is to push the income cap down to say 150 grand. Incentivize those that might want an EV but with 2 kids in college and a mortgage can’t quite swing it. Those of us punching up towards the half a million mark in income don’t need this money and it’s not going to stop any of us from getting the car we want or much else for that matter so lets reward the behaviors we want and not pay extra to those already on board and who have the means. Also, I’d take the luxury’s EV vehicles out of the mix. What’s in the bill today is pretty good from that perspective but more could be done to force open the lower end market for cars like the Bolt and so on. The average Toyota Highlander is 50ish give or take. We should be pushing those families looking at an ICE crossover in the mid 50’s towards an EV with generous incentives that make a Y or Toyota BZ or I.D. or Subaru affordable and make cars like the leaf and the bolt a a no brainer for those with budget constraints. As an example, make the bolt a $18,000 car with a hefty tax refund, not credit to everyone who buys one. This is policy that accomplishes the goal of front loading EV sales in the US so we get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible. Yes, I know some of those cars mentioned aren’t here yet but this is a long term project. Policy should focus on horizons beyond the end of our noses. Those cars will be coming in force soon. We need to move the part of the market that is not in play today.

agreed, thats all absolutely spot on, esp as regards lower income cap and boosting things like the Bolt. I could see maybe a $200k cap tapering a little each year (not because that is my income but because policy) that tapers each year. Even middle class types need some reason to get them over the hump of getting their first EV... it is a hard decision, like dropping your land line. then... it feels totally sane.
Only thing I disagree on are chances. I saw Manchin’s words on union add-on credit and yeah that did make me think OK he can live with the rest. But... honesty I think he’s going to play games, torpedo the vat majority of it to score political points, then switch parties for his next election to much GOP acclaim.

 

[advocate8]

Sure, buyers who aren't wealthy do... but that's not who these EV refunds benefit. They benefit the manufacturer that raises the prices on their products. Sure, the consumer may benefit a little, but there's nothing that keeps the manufacturer from taking that money for themselves by just upping the price. Moreover, $10,000 is an absurdly high refund. A few thousand maybe, but ten thousand? That's just nuts.

Short term, for some car makers, sure. Long term, no, it just defies logic.
At some point manufactures have to bow to competition and price their products accordingly. they’re not going to just increase their profit margins if their competitors have an equivalent car that is selling at $10,000 less and still generating normal auto profit margin.

 

[PNWLeccy]

agreed, thats all absolutely spot on, esp as regards lower income cap and boosting things like the Bolt. I could see maybe a $200k cap tapering a little each year (not because that is my income but because policy) that tapers each year. Even middle class types need some reason to get them over the hump of getting their first EV... it is a hard decision, like dropping your land line. then... it feels totally sane.

There's always a balance between bills that are so complex that they are either utilized by very few or those who can take advantage of a loophole and something so simple/inclusive that underestimates the amount of people who will take advantage of it/ the cost to fund it.

I think some of the changes to simplify have been good, removing some of the price caps for each vehicle class (I think it should just be a universal $80k price cap) and I hope that they remove the Union credit since it doesn't directly contribute to the goal of EV ownership.

However, since current inflation is on the mind, how do you think the bill should account for this in re: to Income and Price caps? Should they be adjusted for inflation each year? It could definitely complicate the bill but if inflation continues at this rate for a bit, it could have a measurable impact on the efficacy of these credits.

 

[SFNM Jack]

I agree with most of your input/thoughts. I believe more fall into your category B than just the one you name. Also, we will not get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible through purchasing an EV. All EVs need electricity and most electricity comes from fossil fuels. Sure, we reduce the exhaust component out of the climate change debate, but ending fossil fuels any time soon is not likely.

Initially, I was looking at upgrading to a BMW/Lexus/Audi SUV, all require high octane fuel and the regular oil and engine maintenance. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to buy his BMWi drive so he could buy another Tesla. Basically, same price for each, just no maintenance and a bit more on the electric home bill. Plus, with Tesla's you get a lot of tech that doesn't require high octane fuel costs.

I also feel that anytime the gov't subsidies anything, am thinking tobacco, etc it is just foolish. Let the market work by itself and not by gov't handouts that often times really don't work, thinking Solyndra nearly half a Billion poof. Not everyone is capable of owning a Tesla or a home as we've seen in the banking/housing bubble burp.

Just one thing. These credits go to consumers, not companies. I respect Obama but listening to him at COP26 almost made me throw up in my mouth. His record on the climate is hardly stellar. I only mention him because of the Solyndra BS….

 

[SFNM Jack]

I agree with most of your input/thoughts. I believe more fall into your category B than just the one you name. Also, we will not get out from under the fossil fuel cudgel as quickly as possible through purchasing an EV. All EVs need electricity and most electricity comes from fossil fuels. Sure, we reduce the exhaust component out of the climate change debate, but ending fossil fuels any time soon is not likely.

Initially, I was looking at upgrading to a BMW/Lexus/Audi SUV, all require high octane fuel and the regular oil and engine maintenance. A friend of mine asked me if I wanted to buy his BMWi drive so he could buy another Tesla. Basically, same price for each, just no maintenance and a bit more on the electric home bill. Plus, with Tesla's you get a lot of tech that doesn't require high octane fuel costs.

I also feel that anytime the gov't subsidies anything, am thinking tobacco, etc it is just foolish. Let the market work by itself and not by gov't handouts that often times really don't work, thinking Solyndra nearly half a Billion poof. Not everyone is capable of owning a Tesla or a home as we've seen in the banking/housing bubble burp.

Agreed on fossil fuels.. I only meant that in this sector we can move the needle relatively quickly and drastically reduce tail pipe emissions. Your point is spot on. Single point emissions at the power plant level are much easier to control the 200 million vehicles in various states of age and mechanical fitness. On the other point…. Manchin is the poster boy in the dem party. He is by no means the only corrupt elected official in WDC, far from it. He is from one of the biggest taker states in the union so I find his pious BS insincere and frankly maddening. His people need this more than most and it would make life changing differences in their lives (the whole bull, not EV subsidies) I don’t get it but thats just me. I wonder how a person like that sleeps. I couldn’t.

 

[impastu]

Please help. I’m looking for the 2022 VIN thread

 

[Mrbrock]

Not exactly correct, it is if you have a tax burden. So, if you owe taxes at all(not your bottom line return), the credit is deducted from that. Sort of hard to explain but a CPA friend who is also getting a second Tesla explained to me if you owe 1000 more at end of year, but your tax liability was say 15,000, you would end up with a $7000 credit, assuming EV tax credit is $8000

This is not correct either. You can be owed money by the IRS and still claim the credit currently. It is based on total tax liability, not on whether or not you get or owe money to the IRS at the end of the year. If you have withholdings from each paycheck that cover your liability to the point that you get a refund, you can still have enough liability to get that plus an ev credit back.

Currently $54k is the level you would need to earn to have at least $7500 federal tax liability. If your company withholds say 20%, that is $10,800. Not counting all the other taxes you pay (social security, etc.) you would be owed a $3300 refund by the IRS. If you bought an ev, the credit is applied to taxes before taking into account your withholdings so your tax liability would go from $7500 to $0 and your refund would then be $10,800. This is obviously simplified but hopefully gets the point across.

 

[impastu]

FTLOG Someone PLEASE create an EV tax incentives thread !

 

[BGOwner]

This is not correct either. You can be owed money by the IRS and still claim the credit currently. It is based on total tax liability, not on whether or not you get or owe money to the IRS at the end of the year. If you have withholdings from each paycheck that cover your liability to the point that you get a refund, you can still have enough liability to get that plus an ev credit back.

Currently $54k is the level you would need to earn to have at least $7500 federal tax liability. If your company withholds say 20%, that is $10,800. Not counting all the other taxes you pay (social security, etc.) you would be owed a $3300 refund by the IRS. If you bought an ev, the credit is applied to taxes before taking into account your withholdings so your tax liability would go from $7500 to $0 and your refund would then be $10,800. This is obviously simplified but hopefully gets the point across.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. It’s tax total liability not what you owe at end of year.

 

[amatt101]

Has anyone got the 2022 model ? Curios to know if it has any changes other than the model year. Heard some of the recent deliveries are missing USB ports

 

[Sam E]

Has anyone got the 2022 model ? Curios to know if it has any changes other than the model year. Heard some of the recent deliveries are missing USB ports

Visited delivery site yesterday to determine if my 2022 Model Y LR AWD was on site.
Have been there several times since they opened, so had some idea of the Peabody, Ma layout. Scheduled for pick-up on this Tuesday. Found the car almost immediately.
Spent about 15 minutes going over the exterior which is white. Beautiful metallic white. Certainly not an expert, but my initial first take appeared to have most panel & intersections how they should be. Noticed in three spots stickers, one on each side of lower rear bumper. One had 6.0 & the other 3.5. Assume these might have been millimeters. They were pointing @ the panel gaps in each case. Could mean one is about
¼ inch in American speak versus ⅛ inch.
So, effectively, about an eight of an inch between the two. The other sticker was on the front hood pointing to the lower gap on passenger side. Hood gaps from the windshield to below Tesla insignia looked symmetrical down both sides.
Could peer into interior & it looked like USB-C ports were installed on back of console. Ones for rear passengers.
The 19” wheel covers were in cargo area I believe, but had forgotten how tinted that area is. Not so easy to eyeball the contents.
Last note of interest was the sticker on the upper part of driver’s side windshield.
Had the vin# of my ‘soon to be car’, but below that on the sticker…..NEW PROCESS.
Probably an internal designation to service, but my first thought was….is there something they are doing different on ‘22s that we are not aware of (other than possible missing USB-ports)??
Oh yeah, after my cursory inspection of the car, I went in to the Tesla show-room to see if it was possible to open car up & inspect the interior. Was told, they don’t have the ability to help me with that request as the car has not been thru service.
I owned a 2018 Model 3 LR AWD for several years. Picked up on last day of September & the car was perfect on both exterior & interior. During that ownership, must say it was one of my favorite if not favorite cars.
Had many adventures with it! Even Uber/Lyft ride share with it from time to time in Boston environs. Mobile service came once to replace a part on the charger door.
Tesla service replaced a windshield that road debris cracked. Sorry to this day I traded for another brand PHEV SUV back in April of this year. However, given used car market prices right now, sold it back to brand dealer for $710 more than I paid for it.
Why SUVs? Older fellow & just easier to enter & exit @ 75 years old.
Alas, I digress, but really excited to start a new adventure with the Y! Oh yeah, insane price increases from 09/23/2021 order date to now…$5k. However, the legacy dealers on other most wanted EVs such as MACH e
GT are bumping pricing from $5k to 10k over MSRP. The used Tesla Model Y LR AWD has all forms of purchase outlets anywhere from $7k and upwards.

 

[Jschoef]

Visited delivery site yesterday to determine if my 2022 Model Y LR AWD was on site.
Have been there several times since they opened, so had some idea of the Peabody, Ma layout. Scheduled for pick-up on this Tuesday. Found the car almost immediately.
Spent about 15 minutes going over the exterior which is white. Beautiful metallic white. Certainly not an expert, but my initial first take appeared to have most panel & intersections how they should be. Noticed in three spots stickers, one on each side of lower rear bumper. One had 6.0 & the other 3.5. Assume these might have been millimeters. They were pointing @ the panel gaps in each case. Could mean one is about
¼ inch in American speak versus ⅛ inch.
So, effectively, about an eight of an inch between the two. The other sticker was on the front hood pointing to the lower gap on passenger side. Hood gaps from the windshield to below Tesla insignia looked symmetrical down both sides.
Could peer into interior & it looked like USB-C ports were installed on back of console. Ones for rear passengers.
The 19” wheel covers were in cargo area I believe, but had forgotten how tinted that area is. Not so easy to eyeball the contents.
Last note of interest was the sticker on the upper part of driver’s side windshield.
Had the vin# of my ‘soon to be car’, but below that on the sticker…..NEW PROCESS.
Probably an internal designation to service, but my first thought was….is there something they are doing different on ‘22s that we are not aware of (other than possible missing USB-ports)??
Oh yeah, after my cursory inspection of the car, I went in to the Tesla show-room to see if it was possible to open car up & inspect the interior. Was told, they don’t have the ability to help me with that request as the car has not been thru service.
I owned a 2018 Model 3 LR AWD for several years. Picked up on last day of September & the car was perfect on both exterior & interior. During that ownership, must say it was one of my favorite if not favorite cars.
Had many adventures with it! Even Uber/Lyft ride share with it from time to time in Boston environs. Mobile service came once to replace a part on the charger door.
Tesla service replaced a windshield that road debris cracked. Sorry to this day I traded for another brand PHEV SUV back in April of this year. However, given used car market prices right now, sold it back to brand dealer for $710 more than I paid for it.
Why SUVs? Older fellow & just easier to enter & exit @ 75 years old.
Alas, I digress, but really excited to start a new adventure with the Y! Oh yeah, insane price increases from 09/23/2021 order date to now…$5k. However, the legacy dealers on other most wanted EVs such as MACH e
GT are bumping pricing from $5k to 10k over MSRP. The used Tesla Model Y LR AWD has all forms of purchase outlets anywhere from $7k and upwards.

That is interesting! I am in NH and had to drive to NJ just over a week ago to get one of the last 2021 models. Almost perfect body…I’m guessing the service center fixed body gaps on mine similar to what looks like yours is going to get done. On my front dash, towards the windshield, the raised rubber trim is slightly indented off center to the left. I was in the Dedham showroom Saturday to buy a charging plug and the MYP in the showroom had the same defect and it was manufactured mid October, so similar to mine. Let us know if yours has this too! Curious about the USB ports also!

 

[Sam E]

That is interesting! I am in NH and had to drive to NJ just over a week ago to get one of the last 2021 models. Almost perfect body…I’m guessing the service center fixed body gaps on mine similar to what looks like yours is going to get done. On my front dash, towards the windshield, the raised rubber trim is slightly indented off center to the left. I was in the Dedham showroom Saturday to buy a charging plug and the MYP in the showroom had the same defect and it was manufactured mid October, so similar to mine. Let us know if yours has this too! Curious about the USB ports also!

Forgot to add…Manufactured on 11/01/2021 according to sticker with vin # & NEW PROCESS.