Wait....but..... that's THIS PAGE!
It's one of those loops, like when the Enterprise kept blowing up in "Cause and Effect"
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First L3 Self Driving Car - Audi A8 world premieres in Barcelona
- Thread starter Bladerskb
- Start date
Wait....but..... that's THIS PAGE!
It's one of those loops, like when the Enterprise kept blowing up in "Cause and Effect"
No this is blatant false. Audi NEVER gave a timeline at all about traffic jam pilot release date. Alot of journalist have been getting things wrong. I have seen multiple articles calling it L2 and saying it goes up to 40kmh, some even saying you have to pay attention. Anything that is not in quotes is a blatant lie.
There were dozens of other people in barcelona who got to sit in the cars and they asked the audi engineers and ppl there and they never commented on a date. Only that it will be a step by step release that will come through an OTA Update.
Anyone else posting a date is lying or simply misguided which isnt new.
Infact in that same article the guy said that the audi a8 is coming next year. Thats completely wrong. Its coming fall this year in europe and then early next year in other markets.
Theres so many incorrect things in that article.
The hypocrisy of you running with this but if the shoes were switched and this was about tesla. You would be saying how am clouded with hate that i will posting misguided false articles inorder to put tesla in a bad light.
You posted a video edited in photoshop/after effect and compared it to a system that is currently in production...really?
You do realize that the traffic jam pilot is based on their exact same L4 platform?
And that article is saying nothing. What exactly is that article supposed to say according to you?
Audi isnt far off its traffic jam pilot is done. There is no 2019 release date that is blatantly false.
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It is highly possible that the Super Cruise will arrive in the US before Audi's system. It does not have a 37 mph limit and it is hands free. It only requires that you point your head towards the road now and then based on speed. If the driver does not respond, it will take action to safely control the car to a stop and call for help. So perhaps L3.5? Some could argue L4. The press have driven it on the freeway.
Maps are only a small part of the answer. You only have to look at the quality of the current Tesla maps (personally encountering incorrect speed limits, missing roads & missing roundabouts) to see that they are fundamentally not fit for purpose.
IMO having to put continous effort into maintaining ultra-precise maps for autonomous vehicles is a fools errand if the possibility exists to build a generic "human plus" system that can operate with minimal input from mapping (as we all used to before GPS!).
IMO having to put continous effort into maintaining ultra-precise maps for autonomous vehicles is a fools errand if the possibility exists to build a generic "human plus" system that can operate with minimal input from mapping (as we all used to before GPS!).
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
I think you're mistaken. It's quite the opposite of what you're suggesting: Super Cruise requires that you point your head (eyes) towards the road at all times, but lets you turn it now and then based on speed
We will see (har). I think both the President of Cadillac and the CNBC reporter are mistaken about eye detection. Otherwise the system will not work with eyeglasses due to tinting or reflection. IIRC, one video has the driver wearing sunglasses and it is operational.
I will be surprised if Audi's night vision or AEB is as excellent as Cadillacs. It works really well. That's what my wife drives, but without the Super Cruise. A Platinum CT6.
Lol you are kidding right? You need to revisit page 3.
Level 0-1 is hands on
Level 2 is hands off (adjust radio, plug in charger, etc)
Level 3 is eyes off (you can watch movies, play games, read book/newspaper/internet, not pay attention, etc)
Level 4 is mind off (you can sleep, not be in the driver seat, etc)
I applaud supercruise for being the first true L2 car
josher32
Member
Yes this article is where the 2019 year is mentioned.Engadget: Audi introduces its level 3 semi-autonomous A8
And the interior doesn't look like a golf cart.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Well I think it is plain to anyone (not just me) that you do like to put Tesla in a bad light
. But in general, what is said during events tends to have more detail than just the press release. I will concede that none of this came from a direct quote or video (which typically is available for Tesla), so in terms of reporting it is lower quality.Note GTSpirit.com is a US site (they have a de version for Germany), so when talking about the "2019 A8" I imagine it's talking about how it will launch next year in the US (which is true).
Anyways, I don't want keep to arguing over a side point (whether it is released early 2019 or late 2018 doesn't really change things much). Here's some parts I think we both agree with:
1) The A8 is not released yet (release late this year in Europe, next year for US market).
2) The A8 will not have L3 during release in Europe
3) The A8 will not start rolling out "pilot" functions (of which L3 is a part of) until 2018 (as per the press release)
That leaves enough time for others to beat them to the market as the first production car with L3.
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Super Cruise is not out. First press demonstrations were early 2012. Fall or winter most likely.
So in your Audi World, Level 5 is Level 4 with the following additions: the car goes to work, pays for itself, sets the family rules, and mows the lawn on the weekends?
BTW - How could Audi be L2 or higher if it cannot control throttle/braking at the speed limit of the road it's on? Driving 37 mph in a 75 mph is not only unsafe, it's not really in control of the throttle. Sort of like putting a C-Clamp on the steering wheel and saying a car is Level 3. It will go straight with an inattentive driver, IF it were actually moving. But the throttle creeps at 5 mph like most auto trans cars do, so it's controlling the speed too.
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HD maps used for driver assistance are entirely different from generic navigation maps - the standard nav maps which are in use today. They're a completely separate thing. They aren't human readable... and you don't have them in your Tesla, or anywhere... yet.
The companies that control these HD maps will have a lot of power - so there's an entirely new incentive to maintain them. Plus, they're designed to update automatically, in near realtime and they will have nowhere near the coverage that regular maps have. Probably only main highways to start with.
Yes, I know about HD maps.
How do they update dynamically?! Soneone has to drive the road to collect the data first.
An L3+ car will need to be able to work without a map.
If it has to be able to work without a map... then why bother with the map - and the responsibility of accutately maintaining the map at all times - in the first place?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
It has a camera which watches you to make sure you are paying attention so you can't read a book, etc.
This doesn't seem as good as Tesla AP. My AP1 car can do all of this and is not limited to 37mph.
It has a camera to make sure u are not as sleep or get out the driver seat. How in the world did you miss everything that has been posted here?
You tesla fans are something else!
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I read through this entire thread and there is lots of conflicting information. The problem is that the Audi is just a press release about some vaporware car which might be available "real soon now" (or maybe a few years). You can argue a lot about what's in a press release (or press reveal) but until you can actually buy the car and test it, it's all just wild speculation.
I put this down to just another "Tesla killer" which is really just a paper tiger. When the car is actually available to buy and to test, then we can have a real discussion. Until then, it looks like my two year old Tesla can do more than this press release.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
My understanding is it uses infrared cameras that can penetrate through most sunglasses to track the eye. If that doesn't work, it falls back on head tracking. I don't think GM however ever implied it is anything but L2, although the nag intervals for eyes off are similar to steering wheel nags.
To make it more clear, the L2 cars typically use an interval nag (measured in seconds to the longest in minutes). L3 cars (like A8 will be after updates) will not have an interval nag. There is no set limit to how long it can operate, only that it will have an early warning when there is an issue that needs driver attention.
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The definitions need to be accepted for what they are. The industry has decided that there was no requirement for hands off for L2. I personally think the hands on thing is a bit silly, and I don't truly believe my HW1 Tesla is really L2 (not since the update to add the nagging). But, the fact remains that it's common practice in the industry to use the steering wheel to determine if the driver is paying attention. Whether I like it or not both AP and Supercruise are L2 systems. Supercruise having the advantage of using a camera to determine if you're paying attention, and AP having the advantage of being operational on more road types. There is also no argument that the L2 has to be really any good. In fact MB makes good arguments as to why it shouldn't be too good.
As to L3 there is no requirement for Speed. All that it has to do is give the driver ample warning to take over when conditions are no longer supported.
The allowance for driving modes means there is going to be a massive difference between one level 3 system, and another level 3 system. Especially with what kind of weather can be handled.
For the car to request that you stay in the designed protection zone, and keep your head up once and awhile, but no driver intervention required makes it sort of a grey area. You don't have to control the operation of the car, but it wants you to stay in a safe position.
Read L3. It requires the car control the speed/braking/steering with the expectation that the human will intervene if requested. 37 mph in a 75 mph zone is not controlling the speed. If traffic on that permitted road speeds up, a human must respond.
The Cadillac system will control the speed/braking/steering without human intervention on permitted roads, but if the human does not respond to a request, it will safely stop the car and call for help. Without human intervention. Look at L4 Fallback.
All you have to do is sit there, it cannot and does not demand you take any action concerning dynamic car control if you operating in a covered driving mode.
So perhaps you could call it L2, and Cadillac probably does. But what does it REALLY do? Time will tell, but it sure sounds like an extremely advanced version of the L2 definition.
It doesn’t require a car to drive the path in order to update the map... you simply update it... For example, if a lane is due to be closed for construction, then it’s just marked as closed by the highways agency or construction team. It’s like updating a database. Any car from then on will know about it. Maintaining a map isn’t all that much work - remember, these maps aren’t particularly large areas, and they focus very specifically on road features - it’s much, much easier than maintaining a huge map of the world and all the POIs and things (like, say, Google Maps).
Why would a L3+ car need to be able to work without a HD map? Just limit it to mapped areas?
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