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First Real Competition?

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It's a great point, but the Ioniq 5/EV6 are based on a different platform.

Third party infrastructure is the future. There are no gas stations devoted to one brand of car. I applaud Tesla’s supercharger network and Tesla in general for bringing EVs into the mainstream, but brand-specific chargers will be obsolete within a decade.

The charging bugs are not with EA - they are with Ford’s half-baked Plug & Charge system which is interfering with the EA system.
Funny, EA problems and other DCFC stations have had reliability issues for years. Literally. So, no, it likely ain't the Ford.

Cool that you've taken road trips and found the Ford and EA worked for you. Uncool that you suggest that will be a universal experience.

You obviously also have found out how bulky and ineligant the CCS plug is, compared to Tesla's?
 
Funny, EA problems and other DCFC stations have had reliability issues for years. Literally. So, no, it likely ain't the Ford.

Cool that you've taken road trips and found the Ford and EA worked for you. Uncool that you suggest that will be a universal experience.

You obviously also have found out how bulky and ineligant the CCS plug is, compared to Tesla's?

I dunno, seemed like a plug to me. And you can bank on that being the standard in the future, so better start some strength and conditioning. The point will come, sooner than you think, when non-Tesla EVs outnumber Teslas on the road. And everybody else is using CCS. It’s the VHS to your Betamax.
 
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I dunno, seemed like a plug to me. And you can bank on that being the standard in the future, so better start some strength and conditioning. The point will come, sooner than you think, when non-Tesla EVs outnumber Teslas on the road. And everybody else is using CCS. It’s the VHS to your Betamax.
Anyone who knows anything knows beta was superior to vhs. So - maybe the inferior product will win out again because of marketing to the mindless Masses?

looking forward to revisiting your posts in A year or so.
 
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Anyone who knows anything knows beta was superior to vhs. So - maybe the inferior product will win out again because of marketing to the mindless Masses?

looking forward to revisiting your posts in A year or so.

I know. That’s why I used the analogy. Tesla charging is somewhat superior, and it is still going to be overtaken by CCS for the reason stated above: adoption. CCS is fine, by the way.
 
I know. That’s why I used the analogy. Tesla charging is somewhat superior, and it is still going to be overtaken by CCS for the reason stated above: adoption. CCS is fine, by the way.

Regardless of what plug is superior. A Tesla can charge with all of them with an adapter. Non-Tesla cars can't for the most part charge at Tesla SuperChargers. For that reason Tesla's have the most charging options and locations then any other manufacture.
 
If not for Tesla, these EVs wouldn't even be coming out yet. I welcome any and all EVs to make the choices numerous and the prices less.
Totally agree, Tesla deserves the credit for having all these new EV options in the market. My 2015 85D has 113k miles on it and is actually at the service center getting the HV battery replaced right now. I'm going to drive it for maybe another year and then decide between the Audi E Tron GT and the Model S Plaid. I'm leaning toward the GT right now as IMO the S exterior is getting tired after almost a decade of nothing but a front bumper/grill update. I know the Model S is a tiny fraction of Tesla sales but they need to update the exterior and offer more colors than the current, rather basic five color options.
 
Regardless of what plug is superior. A Tesla can charge with all of them with an adapter. Non-Tesla cars can't for the most part charge at Tesla SuperChargers. For that reason Tesla's have the most charging options and locations then any other manufacture.

You are proving my point. Why do those adapters exist, and why are they becoming increasingly popular if it is an inferior product with an "inelegant plug"? Because in many areas non-Tesla charging stations are starting to outnumber Superchargers, and what Superchargers there are are sometimes fully occupied. Which is precisely why the proprietary nature of Superchargers, which once helped Tesla expand its brand, will eventually become a burden. Third party charging infrastructure, and CCS, is the future. I'm not trying to rile you guys up, this is just highly likely to happen. The writing is on the wall.

Unlike most of the folks here, I actually test drove both a MME (Ext AWD) and a MYLR, with no prior EV experience and no dog in the hunt. The MME is better in most regards. It looks a hell of a lot better, the interior materials are higher quality, the ride is smoother and quieter, the steering wheel is nicer (Tesla's feels like a toy), the driver's screen is a nice plus, the extra buttons and knobs are helpful, it has better range, oh and the price is currently at least $5,000 less depending upon what Ford incentives you qualify for. Maybe Tesla will get a new tax credit, but you can bet Tesla will jack up its price if that occurs.

The MYLR has sportier acceleration (it's lighter), better efficiency (it's lighter and has less drag), and it charges faster. But the weight savings come at a cost (louder, less refined cabin), it has adopted the ugly Prius bubble to achieve the lower drag, and the charging won't be a significant advantage for much longer. For someone such as myself who wasn't already wedded to the Tesla ecosystem, this was a easy choice.

As I said, Tesla deserves a lot of credit for bringing EVs into the mainstream. Now it finally has serious competition, and that should also be welcomed. Go test drive a MME just for grins.
 
You are proving my point. Why do those adapters exist, and why are they becoming increasingly popular if it is an inferior product with an "inelegant plug"? Because in many areas non-Tesla charging stations are starting to outnumber Superchargers, and what Superchargers there are are sometimes fully occupied. Which is precisely why the proprietary nature of Superchargers, which once helped Tesla expand its brand, will eventually become a burden. Third party charging infrastructure, and CCS, is the future. I'm not trying to rile you guys up, this is just highly likely to happen. The writing is on the wall.

Unlike most of the folks here, I actually test drove both a MME (Ext AWD) and a MYLR, with no prior EV experience and no dog in the hunt. The MME is better in most regards. It looks a hell of a lot better, the interior materials are higher quality, the ride is smoother and quieter, the steering wheel is nicer (Tesla's feels like a toy), the driver's screen is a nice plus, the extra buttons and knobs are helpful, it has better range, oh and the price is currently at least $5,000 less depending upon what Ford incentives you qualify for. Maybe Tesla will get a new tax credit, but you can bet Tesla will jack up its price if that occurs.

The MYLR has sportier acceleration (it's lighter), better efficiency (it's lighter and has less drag), and it charges faster. But the weight savings come at a cost (louder, less refined cabin), it has adopted the ugly Prius bubble to achieve the lower drag, and the charging won't be a significant advantage for much longer. For someone such as myself who wasn't already wedded to the Tesla ecosystem, this was a easy choice.

As I said, Tesla deserves a lot of credit for bringing EVs into the mainstream. Now it finally has serious competition, and that should also be welcomed. Go test drive a MME just for grins.
I'm testing driving a Mach-E on the weekend at my local Ford dealer. It's sitting on the lot... I get regular emails from the sales rep that keeps telling me it might not be available on the weekend and I should rush in. I'm not too worried if it's there on the weekend. I do want to test it along with the ID.4, but have zero chances of trading in my 2019 Model 3 SR+. Maybe my opinion will change, but I feel the styling is old fart, and not my style. I can't imagine having the portrait screen as it is the wrong orientation (it is, let's face the facts) and with no entertainment. I can't imagine if and when Netflix (or similar streaming service) comes then your 15.5" portrait screen turns into a very tiny 16:9 ratio 7" or 8" screen landscape screen. I'm excited to test drive it on the weekend, so I can see what the fuss is about...

EDIT: There are no federal or provincial incentives on either the Mach-E or Model Y in Ontario. Spending $82,767 CDN (taxes in) on a Mach-E AWD Extended range, is well, spending $82,767 on a Ford...
 
If not for Tesla, these EVs wouldn't even be coming out yet. I welcome any and all EVs to make the choices numerous and the prices less.
has anyone ever heard of IBM? IBM was the innovator the personal computing machine, they were the king of PCs for a some time until some people figured out how to clone the IBM PC, they built faster, better and less costly PCs than IBM. IBM did not evolve to compete with the new competition
IBM lost their standing in the PC world.
there is a good series on Netflix that is based on this, Halt and catch fire which gives a view into the circumstances of the growth of PCs and growth and development of the internet.

back to tesla, tesla is indeed the the innovator and king of the EV world, but that world is rapidly changing and like the IBM PC, competitors like ford, gm, VW, and a few startups like lucid, rivian will be developing their versions of EVs, some will be good, others not so good. but the story is the same, others will be making better EVs at better pricing. competition spurs innovation.
 
Regardless of what plug is superior. A Tesla can charge with all of them with an adapter. Non-Tesla cars can't for the most part charge at Tesla SuperChargers. For that reason Tesla's have the most charging options and locations then any other manufacture.
Actually, in the US, there will be no Tesla->CCS adapter. At least not one that won't void your warranty if anything goes wrong with handling 300-400V. No thank you.
 
I'm testing driving a Mach-E on the weekend at my local Ford dealer. It's sitting on the lot... I get regular emails from the sales rep that keeps telling me it might not be available on the weekend and I should rush in. I'm not too worried if it's there on the weekend. I do want to test it along with the ID.4, but have zero chances of trading in my 2019 Model 3 SR+. Maybe my opinion will change, but I feel the styling is old fart, and not my style. I can't imagine having the portrait screen as it is the wrong orientation (it is, let's face the facts) and with no entertainment. I can't imagine if and when Netflix (or similar streaming service) comes then your 15.5" portrait screen turns into a very tiny 16:9 ratio 7" or 8" screen landscape screen. I'm excited to test drive it on the weekend, so I can see what the fuss is about...

EDIT: There are no federal or provincial incentives on either the Mach-E or Model Y in Ontario. Spending $82,767 CDN (taxes in) on a Mach-E AWD Extended range, is well, spending $82,767 on a Ford...

The thinking is that the portrait orientation places the info closer to the driver. I'm not really sold on that line of thinking to be honest, but the portrait also doesn't bother me because the infotainment system works very well. It is shockingly intuitive for something from a legacy automaker.

Totally agree the landscape orientation works far better for watching video and I had originally jotted that down as a plus for Tesla, but then I got to thinking about how often I'd actually be watching video in my car. The answer was basically never. For liability reasons, Ford's never going to allow me to use their tech to stream video while driving, even once hands free highway driving is enabled. And I don't sit in the car while public fast charging because I only public charge on road trips, which means I'm using that time to get out of the car and stretch my legs. So there might be a rare instance where I'm sitting in my car during a soccer practice that it'd be nice to stream a movie or play a video game on the screen, but that was about it. But it could be more important to others so it's definitely a valid point.

I hope you have fun on your test drive. By the way, the dealer isn't allowed to sell their demo vehicle until 4mos / 4,000mi, so the salesman is feeding you a line (ugh the dealer model - that also has it's pros and cons).
 
Why is this poster allowed to make misleading statements like 'Totally agree the landscape orientation works far better for watching video and I had originally jotted that down as a plus for Tesla, but then I got to thinking about how often I'd actually be watching video in my car. The answer was basically never. For liability reasons, Ford's never going to allow me to use their tech to stream video while driving, even once hands free highway driving is enabled."?

This implies one can watch videos while driving in the Tesla. This, of course, is incorrect.
 
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Why is this poster allowed to make misleading statements like 'Totally agree the landscape orientation works far better for watching video and I had originally jotted that down as a plus for Tesla, but then I got to thinking about how often I'd actually be watching video in my car. The answer was basically never. For liability reasons, Ford's never going to allow me to use their tech to stream video while driving, even once hands free highway driving is enabled."?

This implies one can watch videos while driving in the Tesla. This, of course, is incorrect.
I think you see this often from posters who aren't really aware of the functionality of their, or other cars - and simply post to continue to justify and support their personal choice. This poster, in particular, apparently believes the MME is technology's gift to the world of EVs - and each post is done with the purpose of proving them correct.
 
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Why is this poster allowed to make misleading statements like 'Totally agree the landscape orientation works far better for watching video and I had originally jotted that down as a plus for Tesla, but then I got to thinking about how often I'd actually be watching video in my car. The answer was basically never. For liability reasons, Ford's never going to allow me to use their tech to stream video while driving, even once hands free highway driving is enabled."?

This implies one can watch videos while driving in the Tesla. This, of course, is incorrect.

I didn’t “imply” anything of the sort. I spoke specifically to Ford.... because I own a Ford. Would it make you feel better for me to revise my comment to “Ford and Tesla are never going to allow me...” even tho I don’t own a Tesla? What a weird gripe.
 
I think you see this often from posters who aren't really aware of the functionality of their, or other cars - and simply post to continue to justify and support their personal choice. This poster, in particular, apparently believes the MME is technology's gift to the world of EVs - and each post is done with the purpose of proving them correct.

So again, very weird statement. I just finished acknowledging that the portrait mode isn’t as good as landscape mode for streaming video - in fact you can’t stream video period in the MME. Tesla has some advantages. I’ve listed them in my posts. Some of them are significant to me and some aren’t. You guys are very sensitive!!!
 
I didn’t “imply” anything of the sort. I spoke specifically to Ford.... because I own a Ford. Would it make you feel better for me to revise my comment to “Ford and Tesla are never going to allow me...” even tho I don’t own a Tesla? What a weird gripe.
Your response is about what I'd expect. "What, ME?? I didn't say that!" You test drove a Tesla, right? You checked all the features out, including the Infotainment, to see how they worked so that you'd know why your statement is misleading? No?

You could have said "federal law prohibits any manufacturer to display videos on the dashboard of a vehicle while in motion..." THAT would be accurate.

Consider the record clarified.
 
Your response is about what I'd expect. "What, ME?? I didn't say that!" You test drove a Tesla, right? You checked all the features out, including the Infotainment, to see how they worked so that you'd know why your statement is misleading? No?

You could have said "federal law prohibits any manufacturer to display videos on the dashboard of a vehicle while in motion..." THAT would be accurate.

Consider the record clarified.

LOL ok thank you. Everybody got that? The record hath now been clarified!
 
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