First track day in the books...questions

[destructure00]

Did my first track day with the P3D today. Had a great day, the car did great on track! Definitely needs a driver mod.

Made it through 4x 20 min sessions, lots of running around to charge up. For anyone who's interested, my day went as follows:

Left home at 100%, arrived at track at 88% battery
Charge from 88 to 97% before first session (using 14-50 outlet on site).
First session used 40%, ending at 57%
Charged to 70% before 2nd session
Second session ran down to 30%
Went to supercharger at the Biltmore over 2.5 hour lunch break, arrived at 20% and departed at 97%
Arrive back at track at 88%
3rd session ran down to 40%
Charged back up to 50% before 4th session
Ran down to 6% at end of 4th session
Had to charge for 30-40 mins at the end to make it back home.


Not sure if it was the heat (high of 92 today) or what, but battery usage was higher than I was expecting. Acceleration dropped off significantly as battery depleted. I went from basically passing everyone early on to running about in the middle of the field and pointing a handful of people by near the end.

Brakes are a problem. I added stainless lines and Castrol SRF fluid before going out. The pedal was nice and firm over the past week on normal street driving, but got really soft halfway through the first session and stayed that way the rest of the day. The bleeder valves on the front calipers started seeping fluid, and continued even after I tightened them up. No idea what's going on here, other than maybe the calipers heated up so much that the bleeder valve threads loosened up? Any ideas on this one? Brakes are still extremely soft after cooling down, going to flush them again tomorrow and see what happens. Have RB Performance XT910 pads on order, but the rears are holding things up so I had to run on stock pads today.

I dropped the driver's side tires off track in my second session and corded both of them...that was expensive.

Overall, had a great time and got tons of positive compliments on the car. I got passed by one person the entire day (DE3 instructor BTW), until I got below 10% SOC with soft brakes...then started doing a couple of point-bys. Can't wait for the next one!

 

[destructure00]

Wifey got a couple videos from the sidelines, and I only remembered to save my 2nd session dash cam video, will post soon . You can kinda see the brake fluid trail in the second pic above, will get better ones tomorrow.

 

[destructure00]

 

[destructure00]

 

[MoreAgain]

Sounds like a great day, thanks for posting. What track were you at? Battery usage sounds about right. It is a bit of hassle running around for charge between sessions, and only gets worse when there are multiple EVs there. Hopefully the tracks will start getting charging infrastructure built up.

You'll notice a big difference with the pad upgrade. For many of us, that's only the start. Before you know it you'll be wanting larger rotors, coil-overs, sway bars, etc.

 

[AltLogic]

That looks like Firebird (or whatever they call it now) East in Phoenix. It is the most challenging track for brakes in my experience. It is by far my favorite “small” track.

 

[alexGS]

Great stuff! Thank you for the report

Those tyres seem to have really struggled. Are there race/track-only tyres that might do better - even if it means a change of wheel to 18” or 19” to use them? - it must get expensive having to replace ‘street’ tyres after only one session. In my days of FWD hatchback-driving on the circuit, I found Toyo tyres (R888 I think) were a good investment, I had so much more lateral grip that fuel surge became a problem. Much softer/stickier, but not ripped to bits, so lasted for several years of a couple of events per year.

-Alex

 

[destructure00]

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on the seeping brake fluid from the bleeders? Is that normal when the brakes are really hot?

Sounds like a great day, thanks for posting. What track were you at? Battery usage sounds about right. It is a bit of hassle running around for charge between sessions, and only gets worse when there are multiple EVs there. Hopefully the tracks will start getting charging infrastructure built up.

You'll notice a big difference with the pad upgrade. For many of us, that's only the start. Before you know it you'll be wanting larger rotors, coil-overs, sway bars, etc.

Track is Wild Horse Pass east:

I have a set of RB XT910 pads on order, but I'm wondering now if I should go with XT970 for track days and just swap the stock pads back in for regular driving. Any idea how the 970 would do on stock rotors vs 910?

I was expecting 25-30% per session, 40-48% seemed high but it is what it is. Running to the supercharger at lunch was a pain, 42 mile round trip, but I would have had to sit the 3rd session out otherwise.

That looks like Firebird (or whatever they call it now) East in Phoenix. It is the most challenging track for brakes in my experience. It is by far my favorite “small” track.

Good eye It's Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park now, but yes that's the old Firebird east track. I had a couple guys in the NASA group tell me it was hard on brakes too. I saw a post here not too long ago about cooling ducts, might need to look into that.

Great stuff! Thank you for the report

Those tyres seem to have really struggled. Are there race/track-only tyres that might do better - even if it means a change of wheel to 18” or 19” to use them? - it must get expensive having to replace ‘street’ tyres after only one session. In my days of FWD hatchback-driving on the circuit, I found Toyo tyres (R888 I think) were a good investment, I had so much more lateral grip that fuel surge became a problem. Much softer/stickier, but not ripped to bits, so lasted for several years of a couple of events per year.

-Alex

The tires were my fault, I dropped the driver's side off track in the 2nd session, pretty sure that's what ripped them up. The passenger side tires are fine. I am going to get a dedicated set of track wheels and tires now though, don't want to deal with tearing up my street tires.

 

[MoreAgain]

Were you there with NASA HPDE, or another club? Which run group were you in? It would be interesting to see how times match up with their classes. I was hoping to compete in TT4 or TT5. But, they told me since they haven't figured out how to class EVs, I would have to be in super unlimited.

I'm not sure how the brake pads you are looking at compare, but I ran Unplugged Performance sport pads for 3 track days and ran them down to bare metal on the fronts. I've got Mountain Pass Performance Track pads now, and am hoping they hold up a bit longer.

 

[jyalpert]

Anyone have any ideas or thoughts on the seeping brake fluid from the bleeders? Is that normal when the brakes are really hot?

No, that's ****ed.

 

[jyalpert]

Were you there with NASA HPDE, or another club? Which run group were you in? It would be interesting to see how times match up with their classes. I was hoping to compete in TT4 or TT5. But, they told me since they haven't figured out how to class EVs, I would have to be in super unlimited.

I'm not sure how the brake pads you are looking at compare, but I ran Unplugged Performance sport pads for 3 track days and ran them down to bare metal on the fronts. I've got Mountain Pass Performance Track pads now, and am hoping they hold up a bit longer.

Fyi MPP told me the "track" pad they sell is a hybrid, like the Hawk HP+. They said they can make more serious track pads (like say the DTC-60 type compound) custom if you ask them to.

 

[destructure00]

Were you there with NASA HPDE, or another club? Which run group were you in? It would be interesting to see how times match up with their classes. I was hoping to compete in TT4 or TT5. But, they told me since they haven't figured out how to class EVs, I would have to be in super unlimited.

I'm not sure how the brake pads you are looking at compare, but I ran Unplugged Performance sport pads for 3 track days and ran them down to bare metal on the fronts. I've got Mountain Pass Performance Track pads now, and am hoping they hold up a bit longer.

Yeah I was with NASA in the HPDE3 group. I haven't looked into the TT groups, need more seat time before I'd be comfortable with that. What's the super unlimited group?

I posted these in a different thread, but here's what I found with my front pads. They wore really unevenly, and glazed over quite a bit. I swapped the inner and outer pads this morning, removed the glazing on the pads, put it back together with grease on the slide pins and return springs (they were dry originally), and rebled the brakes. Pedal is still spongy, not sure if anything besides new pads will cure that. I cleaned up the calipers really well, will keep an eye out for more brake fluid seepage.

 

[ricohman]

On the bleeders.
There is a small amount of fluid left inside that will weep out.
Don't go cranking them down. Just roll up a thread of paper towel and stick it into the bleeder.
You will be surprised how wet the paper becomes.

 

[destructure00]

On the bleeders.
There is a small amount of fluid left inside that will weep out.
Don't go cranking them down. Just roll up a thread of paper towel and stick it into the bleeder.
You will be surprised how wet the paper becomes.

That could definitely be what it was, just seemed like more than that to me. On the other hand, I figured that if I had a true fluid leak I would have felt the brakes giving out and would have seen a drop in fluid level (neither of which happened), so that may make more sense. After I bled this morning I sprayed the bleeders out with brake cleaner and then blew it out with compressed air.

 

[MoreAgain]

Yeah I was with NASA in the HPDE3 group. I haven't looked into the TT groups, need more seat time before I'd be comfortable with that. What's the super unlimited group?

The Unlimited group doesn't have any restrictions on upgrades or weight to HP ratio, so you can basically run anything in that group. TT1 and TTU are usually the fastest cars out there. The RaceHero app shows the leaders in those groups were running in the 58-59 second range yesterday. Based on wt/hp, the stock P3D would likely qualify for TT4. Usually the HPDE3/4 group runs in the same sessions as the TT3/4, so that is probably who you were running with. Those guys were running in the 1:02-1:08 range, so you were likely right in there if you were passing in that group.

 

[kbecks13]

I'm not sure how the brake pads you are looking at compare, but I ran Unplugged Performance sport pads for 3 track days and ran them down to bare metal on the fronts. I've got Mountain Pass Performance Track pads now, and am hoping they hold up a bit longer.

Did you have the normal "sport" pads from UP or the "track version"? They have two types available.

 

[MoreAgain]

Did you have the normal "sport" pads from UP or the "track version"? They have two types available.

I had the sport pads. They held up well at Buttonwillow for TC2, but the long sessions at Big Willow really wore them down. By the end of TC3 they were down to metal. The small rotors on the RWD are the weak point more than the pads. I'm looking forward to the first track session on my new 365mm MPP rotors.

 

[destructure00]

The Unlimited group doesn't have any restrictions on upgrades or weight to HP ratio, so you can basically run anything in that group. TT1 and TTU are usually the fastest cars out there. The RaceHero app shows the leaders in those groups were running in the 58-59 second range yesterday. Based on wt/hp, the stock P3D would likely qualify for TT4. Usually the HPDE3/4 group runs in the same sessions as the TT3/4, so that is probably who you were running with. Those guys were running in the 1:02-1:08 range, so you were likely right in there if you were passing in that group.

I should have run a lap timer...didn't this time. Also didn't end up with any in-car video. Oops. I think in all 4 session for the day I got passed 2 or 3 times, one of which was an instructor's race NSX, and the other 1 or 2 were in the last session when I was below 10% charge and trying to go easy on the brakes. I was typically passing 1 or 2 cars each lap.

Here's a couple more videos from the first session. I had an instructor in the car with me who was super helpful but super chatty too

This one is the same video from post #4, just with a proper title

 

[AltLogic]

I ran my race car on RA-1 tires at WHP east and had to remove my front turn signals to allow air to cool the front brakes. The same car with 10% more horsepower and much more sticky tires (Hoosier A7) doesn’t need the additional cooling at the following tracks: WHP main, WHP west, AMP, Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Autoclub speedway, INDE, Willow Springs and streets of Willow. So, if your brakes can handle WHP east you are set for just about any other track.

 

[destructure00]

I ran my race car on RA-1 tires at WHP east and had to remove my front turn signals to allow air to cool the front brakes. The same car with 10% more horsepower and much more sticky tires (Hoosier A7) doesn’t need the additional cooling at the following tracks: WHP main, WHP west, AMP, Chuckwalla, Buttonwillow, Autoclub speedway, INDE, Willow Springs and streets of Willow. So, if your brakes can handle WHP east you are set for just about any other track.

Awesome, great info. Thanks for sharing.