Fisker Karma

[rolosrevenge]

You all are cruel. There's plenty of space in the tent for Fisker and Tesla for the foreseeable future.

There's still a lot of bad blood since Henrick was supposed to design Model S, but didn't and instead went and formed his own company. Maybe if he had delivered usable Model S designs before he left, there wouldn't be as many people partially hoping for karma to take it's course.

 

[Johan]

Easy there with the broad brush, chief.

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Good to hear.

Am I the only one that thinks the word "recall" is misused in the industry at this point? To me recall means "product taken back" not "some component gets retrofitted".

I think the proper term is "Service bulletin"

 

[Doug_G]

I think the proper term is "Service bulletin"

Recall is usually used when safety is at stake, Service Bulletin when reliability or functionality is the issue.

 

[SoCalGuy]

There's still a lot of bad blood since Henrick was supposed to design Model S, but didn't and instead went and formed his own company. Maybe if he had delivered usable Model S designs before he left, there wouldn't be as many people partially hoping for karma to take it's course.

Henrik did deliver a design to Elon - a design that I think according to court documents/interviews from Elon was "crap" - Elon alleged that Henrik had saved the 'good' design for his own car (the Karma). I'd be curious to see what Henrik's initial design for the S looked like.

 

[ElSupreme]

Am I the only one that thinks the word "recall" is misused in the industry at this point? To me recall means "product taken back" not "some component gets retrofitted".

Well ever since the 'unintended acceleration' fiasco with Toyota (where people were actually pressing the wrong pedal) and no one in the press commented that the brakes will easily overpower the engine. 'Recalls' have become way blown out of proportion.

I remember people talking about the Toyota recalls and telling them my GTI had about a half dozen recalls already (about 4 years old at that point). Including one for rubber caps so the adjustment screws for my HID lamps could not be operated. Apparently having consumer accessible lateral (I think it was lateral) adjustment of headlights in the USA is not allowed. Go figure. None of them were even remotely serious. I had a push button replaced because it could stick and discharge the battery over a week. Stuff like that.

It really depends on the severity of a 'recall'. Just by itself a 'recall' means pretty much nothing.

 

[AnOutsider]

Henrik did deliver a design to Elon - a design that I think according to court documents/interviews from Elon was "crap" - Elon alleged that Henrik had saved the 'good' design for his own car (the Karma). I'd be curious to see what Henrik's initial design for the S looked like.

I think the key phrase from rolo is:

Maybe if he had delivered usable Model S designs

 

[ElSupreme]

Recall is usually used when safety is at stake, Service Bulletin when reliability or functionality is the issue.

I always thought recalls were 'mandatory' where service bulletins were 'voluntary'. Recalls are safety, or something that would degrade/disable the vehicle. Where service bulletins were nuisance issues.

 

[SoCalGuy]

I think the key phrase from rolo is:

Perhaps - but I wonder what made the design unusable - ie was it poor aesthetics or did it simply not accommodate the drivetrain packaging? In any event, would love to see what it looked like.

 

[dsm363]

If his Model S designs were anything like the Fisker, it would have been beautiful but not functional from a daily use perspective.

 

[FlasherZ]

Am I the only one that thinks the word "recall" is misused in the industry at this point? To me recall means "product taken back" not "some component gets retrofitted".

Yes. Recall means removed from the market and destroyed. Reworked means modified to correct an issue.

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If his Model S designs were anything like the Fisker, it would have been beautiful but not functional from a daily use perspective.

I happen to think the Fisker Karma is ugly as sin. The moustache / Cheshire cat front end is just... ugly.

Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I understand, but most people that I ask tell me the Karma is ugly and showy.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I think another problem was that not only did Henrick leave before the product he was hired to design was finished, but his Karma was originally announced to be a direct competitor to Model S. While the court ruled that he didn't steal any trade secrets, it just smells funny if you know what I mean. It would look suspicious for something like that to happen in any company. Again, I'm not saying it's right to think that way, but it is understandable for some to want Fisker to fail in a sort of "serves you right" attitude.

 

[smorgasbord]

Well ever since the 'unintended acceleration' fiasco with Toyota (where people were actually pressing the wrong pedal) and no one in the press commented that the brakes will easily overpower the engine.

Am I the only one old enough to recognize that that was simply a rehash of the Audi 5000 event?

 

[richkae]

Am I the only one old enough to recognize that that was simply a rehash of the Audi 5000 event?

No you are not. Are you also geeky enough to remember that the mom in E.T. drove an Audi 5000?

 

[brianman]

Yes. Recall means removed from the market and destroyed. Reworked means modified to correct an issue.

Yah, that terminology makes sense to me. Calling "replaced a problem fan" a recall just seems retarded to me. Then again, it's the press. The bar is low.

 

[mattjs33]

It's called a recall by the industry, not by the press. That's the term the industry has used for years. It means the cars are "called" back to the factory authorized service points for mandatory service - thus, "recalled". You guys are wasting a lot of energy worrying about semantics. They could just as easily have used the word "reservice" or something. And it certainly doesn't mean removed from the market and destroyed.

 

[brianman]

recall ... And it certainly doesn't mean removed from the market and destroyed.

It does to me. Again, my point was simply misuse of language. That fact that it's done so as common practice doesn't really mean much to me. Lots of people do stupid things as part of a crowd.

define recall - Bing DICTIONARY
verb

2. order somebody or something back: to order something or somebody to come back or be sent back

noun

3. request to return product: a request by a manufacturer to return a product because of a fault or contamination

Anywho, getting back on topic: I'm glad Fisker owners (especially forum members) still have their vehicles on the road.

I have my issues with the history of the personalities behind the vehicle, and some of the choices with the vehicle, but I'm still glad to see the vehicles still rolling. Variety in the marketplace is a good thing.

 

[Doug_G]

I always thought recalls were 'mandatory' where service bulletins were 'voluntary'. Recalls are safety, or something that would degrade/disable the vehicle. Where service bulletins were nuisance issues.

There is the term "voluntary recall", which I think means the manufacturer recalls the vehicle before NHSTA makes them do it.

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I think another problem was that not only did Henrick leave before the product he was hired to design was finished, but his Karma was originally announced to be a direct competitor to Model S.

Leaving before you finish is unprofessional. Leaving it unfinished so you can start a competing company is massively unprofessional.

Am I the only one old enough to recognize that that was simply a rehash of the Audi 5000 event?

Nope. Dumb people + dumber press = business disaster.

 

[GSP]

I was able to take a Karma for a short test drive.

Although the interior looks cramped, it was very comfortable and did not feel small at all. The car felt heavy, substantial, and solid. It was very fun to drive, with good low speed handeling, and decent acceleration. Brake blending with regen was done very well, it was seamless. The steering wheel was comfortable to hold with "fat" cross section, and the assist felt very smooth with good feedback during my low speed city drive.

Acceleration was good in both EV (Stealth) and Hybrid (sport) modes, with not a whole lot of difference between the two modes, but still noticeable. It does not launch off the line very strong, like the Model S does, but once moving acceleration is brisk. Not bad for a heavy car, but not up to Model S capability (I have only test driven the MSP). The engine was very smooth and quiet. Engine start and stop was imprecievable, even better than the Volt, which is very good.

I am not a fan of the Karma. I will save for the Model S or BlueStar instead. However, I was surprised at how nice a car it is, and can definately see the appeal to people fortunate enough to be able to easily afford it.

GSP

 

[SoCalGuy]

Another review of the Karma with some great moving shots/video. Probably my favorite video review and think its pretty accurate/fair.

 

[Raffy.Roma]

The video says that the Karma is the first Fisker car while the Model S is the second Tesla car meaning to say as that there are still margins for improvements.