Fisker ocean - UK forum

[Sean.]

I know all the new V4's are open to all but there's still only about 20 sites open to non Tesla's. I also know my fear is irrational considering I got my first Tesla in 2017 when there weren't even 20 sites in total in the UK and it was a Model S60D .

34 but who’s counting

 

[Sean.]

To placate your fears of not being able to find a charger outside of the SuC network.

You can survive peeps. Trust me.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I quite enjoyed my Eletre test drive, although did miss the Tesla one pedal driving. It's been interesting reading some of the owners reports on disappointing range and charging speeds (ignoring some of the obvs EV newbie comments) and that worries me. especially coming from the MS and SuC'ing network. Not that I use it that much but to drop range massively and lose the Tesla charging infra makes me a bit twitchy.

I didn't warm to the FOE in the showroom, but did like the look of the Polestar 3. That and the Polestar 4 are on my radar, do you have any thoughts on them?

I think the Electric S gets reasonable range for the most part. I ordered an R which is probably going to be similar to a Model 3 Performance for total range which isn't all that great to be honest. 99% of the time it'll still be enough for me but that 1% still worries you. Guess I'm not experienced enough with long distance EV trips yet to have lost the twitch over that.

Not been following Polestar too much. I'll have a look

 

[pdk42]

To placate your fears of not being able to find a charger outside of the SuC network.

You can survive peeps. Trust me.

View attachment 1007470

But now overlay with the growth of EVs on the roads. Then you get a graph like this:

 

[FastLaneJB]

But now overlay with the growth of EVs on the roads. Then you get a graph like this:

View attachment 1007473

This might not be too useful though either as it has an assumption that everyone is using public chargers. My wife used a Supercharger yesterday and that's the first time in probably a year roughly. There's probably a lot of people with home charging that almost never or maybe even never use a public charger.

What you really need to know is data from charging companies on how often their chargers are used on average. More usage more of the time means we are heading in the direction of not enough. Mostly idle then we are probably still good.

 

[pdk42]

This might not be too useful though either as it has an assumption that everyone is using public chargers. My wife used a Supercharger yesterday and that's the first time in probably a year roughly. There's probably a lot of people with home charging that almost never or maybe even never use a public charger.

What you really need to know is data from charging companies on how often their chargers are used on average. More usage more of the time means we are heading in the direction of not enough. Mostly idle then we are probably still good.

Yes, but I think to a first approximation we can assume an average usage profile of public vs home charging that doesn't change much over time. So the graph I posted shows that the trend is going the wrong way. Charger installation is lagging EV sales - I don't think that is controversial.

And anecdotally, it seems that at peak times queuing is a problem at some locations, even for dedicated Tesla sites (e.g. Tebay):

Tesla owners report long queues for chargers over the Christmas period

Tesla owners have complained of having to wait for hours to charge their vehicles over the Christmas holiday, and published pictures of long queues on social media.

forecourttrader.co.uk

 

[FastLaneJB]

Yes, but I think to a first approximation we can assume an average usage profile of public vs home charging that doesn't change much over time. So the graph I posted shows that the trend is going the wrong way. Charger installation is lagging EV sales - I don't think that is controversial.

And anecdotally, it seems that at peak times queuing is a problem at some locations, even for dedicated Tesla sites (e.g. Tebay):

Tesla owners report long queues for chargers over the Christmas period

Tesla owners have complained of having to wait for hours to charge their vehicles over the Christmas holiday, and published pictures of long queues on social media.

forecourttrader.co.uk

I don’t doubt we aren’t putting in enough chargers and as members of the public this might be the only data we get to see.

Just saying that the desire of charging companies to put more chargers in will be based on ROI so they’ll need a high enough utilisation. Possible earlier chargers weren’t making a good ROI as they weren’t busy enough but you have to put them in first before cars can be sold so it’s a long game. You can kind of tell because they cannot be bothered to fix a lot of broken ones as they probably only put them in with government grants but had so little usage they aren’t viable commercially.

Basically our hope is there will always be enough that you rock up and just plug in without waiting. The charging companies though will want their chargers in use as much as possible. They aren’t going to put in enough to avoid queuing at peak times like a bank holiday as that means they’ll be vastly over provisioned for the rest of the year.

Aware a big problem is the electricity grid slowing this down but just saying even if we solve that. Will we get as many chargers as we hope for or just the amount that make commercial sense? Think it’s going to be the later.

Early adopters had it good. Not many supercharging sites but so few EV’s you’d never have to queue. I don’t think we’ll ever get back to that anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Sean.]

But now overlay with the growth of EVs on the roads. Then you get a graph like this:

View attachment 1007473

Can you provide a source for the data? I expect they were using old data, or at least took a snapshot at some point in 2023 which wasn’t reflective of the huge growth we’ve witnessed throughout the year.

For example in December alone there were over 500 new ultra-rapid charge points installed alone.

Certainly BEV growth hasn’t been 145% YoY as it has been for ultra-rapid hubs.

The chart data just doesn’t stack up.

 

[pdk42]

Can you provide a source for the data? I expect they were using old data, or at least took a snapshot at some point in 2023 which wasn’t reflective of the huge growth we’ve witnessed throughout the year.

For example in December alone there were over 500 new ultra-rapid charge points installed alone.

Certainly BEV growth hasn’t been 145% YoY as it has been for ultra-rapid hubs.

The chart data just doesn’t stack up.

I can't find the site now where I got that graph, but there is some source info at the bottom that might help with a search. Sorry.

But I think that BEV growth could easily be 145% over the past few years. When I got my model 3 back in 2019 it was a rare sight and people used to wave at each other. Now they are ten a penny. That wouldn't have happened without significant growth. And that's ignoring all the other EVs on the road.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I can't find the site now where I got that graph, but there is some source info at the bottom that might help with a search. Sorry.

But I think that BEV growth could easily be 145% over the past few years. When I got my model 3 back in 2019 it was a rare sight and people used to wave at each other. Now they are ten a penny. That wouldn't have happened without significant growth. And that's ignoring all the other EVs on the road.

I still think for the most part though they are selling to people with home chargers. I suspect the penetration of people with no driveway or home charging is really low. This might be why increasing EV demand is starting to slow and they need incentives. The people that were keen and easy to switch, a lot of them might have an EV by now. The people that aren’t convinced, it doesn’t work for their situation or are completely against EV’s will be the tough market to crack.

 

[Js1977]

I still think for the most part though they are selling to people with home chargers. I suspect the penetration of people with no driveway or home charging is really low. This might be why increasing EV demand is starting to slow and they need incentives. The people that were keen and easy to switch, a lot of them might have an EV by now. The people that aren’t convinced, it doesn’t work for their situation or are completely against EV’s will be the tough market to crack.

There are four EV's in our house and for the last 3 years at least 1 has used a supercharger out of curiosity, one a long trip and another used it once, maybe twice on a long trip. Im sure there are people out there that dont have a charger at home but I haven't personally come across any.

Please feel free to crack the you should go out more jokes

 

[WannabeOwner]

I disagree with him on that other than the door handles that are as bad as people say.

I had a Lotus Esprit Turbo ... with Morris Marina door handles

Please feel free to crack the you should go out more jokes

Don't blame me, I asked Chat GPT:

"Sounds like your friend's electric vehicle is a bit like a homebody! Maybe it needs to 'charge' up its social life and venture out to more public charging stations. After all, it could use a 'jolt' of excitement outside the comfort of home!"

You can survive peeps. Trust me.

For me its not so much the availability of 3rd party public charging, its the faffing about when you get there.

Do I have a sutiable APP? If not I don't really want to stop there at all (unless I'm likely to use them again). I have an APP I got for Ireland when we went there a couple, of years ago, and Ecotricity and Pulse (or something like that) since WAY before then. Clearly, since then, I have managed just fine with SuC alone ... so I would be well stuffed if, tomorrow, I suddenly needed 3rd party.

And when I plug in how long have I got to faff about telling the APP what stall I'm at, and initiating the charge and, as a "not often" 3rd party charge user, hanging around to make sure it ramps up and so on?

And is it likely that it won't work? and I have to try a different stall ... or, worse, a different site? May not be the case, but The Media has told me plenty about how rubbish it is (and it WAS back when I used it umpteen years ago)

 

[WannabeOwner]

Don't blame me, I asked Chat GPT:

Chat GPT picked the subject title, not me. Perhaps it has got a sense of humour ...

 

[Js1977]

Chat GPT picked the subject title, not me. Perhaps it has got a sense of humour ...

I think you need to go out more

 

[Zilla91]

For me its not so much the availability of 3rd party public charging, its the faffing about when you get there.

It’s really not that much of a hardship. I’ve used InstaVolt, Ionity, Fastned, Geniepoint, Mer, MFG, Gridserve and Pod Point at one point or another and they’ve been absolutely fine.

I’ve found getting a receipt or invoices from them a bigger challenge than actually getting hooked up and charging

 

[Js1977]

It’s really not that much of a hardship. I’ve used InstaVolt, Ionity, Fastned, Geniepoint, Mer, MFG, Gridserve and Pod Point at one point or another and they’ve been absolutely fine.

I’ve found getting a receipt or invoices from them a bigger challenge than actually getting hooked up and charging

Im happy to hear it (about the charging)

 

[Doudeau]

They aren’t going to put in enough to avoid queuing at peak times like a bank holiday as that means they’ll be vastly over provisioned for the rest of the year.

Maybe I lack insight but will it be such an issue if the charging points are underutilised for a lot of the time to start with? I’m guessing there will be little cost when not in use and payback will come on busy days and in future.

 

[FastLaneJB]

Maybe I lack insight but will it be such an issue if the charging points are underutilised for a lot of the time to start with? I’m guessing there will be little cost when not in use and payback will come on busy days and in future.

I think we've had that phase as they had to add coverage across the country in early days without too many EV's yet on the roads. I don't think we'll get back to that.

 

[Doudeau]

I think we've had that phase as they had to add coverage across the country in early days without too many EV's yet on the roads. I don't think we'll get back to that.

At least Tesla are still installing a lot of stalls each time in France for new sites even though they are only being very lightly utilised. The ones I’ve seen all seem to be “open to all”.

 

[FastLaneJB]

At least Tesla are still installing a lot of stalls each time in France for new sites even though they are only being very lightly utilised. The ones I’ve seen all seem to be “open to all”.

A new site should always be built to have capacity for the future so seems fair. What I mean is across a whole country and specifically I mean the UK here. New sites with some extra capacity if there's not enough of them won't dent the country wide picture.

Honestly I want to be wrong on this. I'm just setting my expectations low and trying to be realistic. The UK is good at disappointing us citizens, why would this be any different