For AWD owners wanting a P3D-

[Dwalt]

TL;DR

Guy with LR AWD wants software flash and says it’s possible.

Guy with P3D- says it can’t be done.

Guys argue back and forth for 40 pages.

My $0.02 is that lots of AWD owners want it. Some P3D+/- owners don’t want them to have it because they’ll no longer feel special. I think if Tesla has proven anything, it’s that 1) we have no idea what’s true or not related to parts, and 2) they’ll do whatever they want based on which way the wind is blowing that day.

Seems like a lot of hullabaloo for something no one here can control

 

[jebinc]

TL;DR

Guy with LR AWD wants software flash and says it’s possible.

Guy with P3D- says it can’t be done.

Guys argue back and forth for 40 pages.

My $0.02 is that lots of AWD owners want it. Some P3D+/- owners don’t want them to have it because they’ll no longer feel special. I think if Tesla has proven anything, it’s that 1) we have no idea what’s true or not related to parts, and 2) they’ll do whatever they want based on which way the wind is blowing that day.

Seems like a lot of hullabaloo for something no one here can control

I was hoping that charade had ended yesterday. Let's hope it has, and that your post didn't reinvigorate the perps...

 

[Knightshade]

TL;DR

Guy with LR AWD wants software flash and says it’s possible.

Guy with P3D- says it can’t be done.

Nope.

Both seem to agree it CAN be done.

There's some disagreement on how broadly it can be done, or how likely it is to happen however.

DR indeed

 

[catware]

I took the Tesla factory tour in Fremont in July 2019, and during the tour on 2 separate occasions as we drove by some large bins with motor units inside, the tour guide operator told us that the Model 3 Performance and the Model S and X all get the same rear motor, while the AWD Model 3 got a different motor. FWIW.

Personally, when I bought my AWD in June, I was unaware of the existence of the P3D-. I went back and forth a lot in deciding which model to order, and ultimately because I live in a part of Oregon that gets several feet of snow per year, decided that the larger wheels and lower ground clearance of the P3D would cause some problems, so I bought the AWD. Now I learned 2 months later that there exists this P3D-, and it's selling for *exactly* the same price I paid for the AWD with 19" wheels.

 

[andy92782]

The P3D was $10K+ more expensive back when I bought my LR AWD. It wasn't worth it to me to spend the extra money on the upgrade.

Now if I were buying the car today, I'd definitely get the P3D. Why not? A P3D today costs less than an LR AWD did in October, 2018.

If I were given the *option* today of giving Tesla $x,000 more to software unlock ~100hp, I wouldn't do it for two reasons:
1) I feel I've already given them enough of my money. It's bad enough I forked over almost $6,000 on an after-delivery purchase of EAP.
2) The speed of the LR AWD leaves me wanting for nothing. Motor Trend tested the LR AWD at 4.0 to 60mph and 12.5 @ 113 in the quarter mile. To put that in perspective, these times are nearly identical to the car I used to drive, a 2010 Porsche 911 Carrera S.

 

[jebinc]

I took the Tesla factory tour in Fremont in July 2019, and during the tour on 2 separate occasions as we drove by some large bins with motor units inside, the tour guide operator told us that the Model 3 Performance and the Model S and X all get the same rear motor, while the AWD Model 3 got a different motor. FWIW.

Personally, when I bought my AWD in June, I was unaware of the existence of the P3D-. I went back and forth a lot in deciding which model to order, and ultimately because I live in a part of Oregon that gets several feet of snow per year, decided that the larger wheels and lower ground clearance of the P3D would cause some problems, so I bought the AWD. Now I learned 2 months later that there exists this P3D-, and it's selling for *exactly* the same price I paid for the AWD with 19" wheels.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - I purchased and took delivery in June as well, and the P3D- was not available as the 2nd qtr had not yet closed. I believe the P3D- arrived with the 7/15 price reductions - just after we received our higher priced LR AWD's.

 

[Wings]

Ya I hear the argument , I bought a long range AWD but really wanted a Performance. Tesla should upgrade me cause I'm too cheap to pay for the Performance like everyone else. Along the same line, I bought a Black car because I couldn't or didn't want to pay the $1500 for White. Now White is standard, I think Tesla sold give me White for free.

 

[FMinMI]

Sooooo, how is the weather looking for this weekend????

 

[BriansBucketList]

September 2018 P3D- owner here, and have no complaints after getting all the rebates, and having the added power actually save our lives. As the owner of an early Stealth P3, and after a lot of research, my opinion is that the P3s are software limited "on delivery" as are all Teslas. My resale value may be better if the AWD is "more" software limited, so, full disclosure, I have some bias. That said, I don't plan on selling in the near future. As far as any assumptions that deal with identical part numbers for various motors and inverters, I have evidence that the additional digits that are associated with a part number (not serial number) are printed and tracked for a reason, so identical part numbers may be varied. If that were so, the upgrade of an AWD to performance specs would most likely be an obvious winner at first, but may result in premature failure, and/or early warranty claims.

 

[groovidad]

Yeah, I still think Elon believes we are smokin’ better *Sugar than him.

 

[StealthP3D]

My $0.02 is that lots of AWD owners want it. Some P3D+/- owners don’t want them to have it because they’ll no longer feel special.

Just to be clear on my position here - I haven't taken a position on what I WANT Tesla to do, I'm simply analyzing the LIKELIHOOD that Tesla would offer after-purchase upgrades from AWD to P3D. If I thought there was a practical way for them to do this without harming their brand or reputation I would be behind it 100%. I absolutely wouldn't care if they upgraded all AWD's to P3D for FREE! But you are dreaming if you think they will do this.

I never understood the mentality of people who think they've been ripped off when someone else gets a better deal at a later date. I made my deal and I'm still tickled pink with it. Upgrading others would take exactly nothing away from me. I just don't think there is a practical way to make this happen without upping Tesla's warranty expense and giving them a black eye for drive unit failures that would be bound to happen if they didn't restrict the P3D to cars with drive units that passed the required testing for the higher current levels.

 

[EV-by-the-Sea]

Getting back to one of the issues previously at hand -- has anyone made any attempt to get this idea/wish in front of someone who could drive this forward, say, like a product manager at Tesla? I saw the push to send emails to customer support, but not sure that it'll make it out of that front line. There's always the tweet-at-Elon-and-pray method, but unless you've got a huge following that's not really a good guarantee of attention either. Seems that some LinkedIn sleuthing might be able to turn up some folks that might have the power to put something like this into motion if it is possible.

 

[nuclearfusion]

.... I am truly happy for people able to get a P3D- now for such a great price. I really wish I had not purchased my LR AWD last fall though. That is not to say I think Tesla owes me anything (though I wish they'd offer a P software upgrade for purchase). It's just so much better of a deal now. I wanted a P. But when I ordered, all that was offered was P3D+ for I think $10-12k more than a LR AWD. That was too much of a jump for me. But if I had been given the option of a P3D- for a couple grand more than a LR AWD it would have been a no brainer. ...

Dave, who knows what software tweeks Tesla may still offer.
The P3D- was offered when orders opened in Australia in late June - but not the LR AWD which I wanted and I ordered the P3D-. Early July the configurator deleted the P3D- and added the LR AWD at the same price. My understanding is the only difference is the software.
I changed my order for the LR AWD (I know, some on this forum will think I was raving mad) so what was the trade-off for me. Range increased from 560 km to 620 km NEDC, acceleration dropped from 3.4 sec 0-100 km/h to 4.6 sec, top speed fell from 261 km/h to 233 km/h, all done in software ... and my annual insurance costs fell. Physically the car is identical - same trim level, same wheels, tyres and brakes, same build, same VIN description.
The only difference between the two configurations was marketing and a software tweek; in the Australian case even the price was identical.
Power, range and rear/front motor balance were adjusted between the two cars through software. As I intend to do quite a bit of long distance touring and won't be doing any track work the choice was easy. My personal top speed will be unchanged between cars - except on the track they are totally unattainable. Acceleration will remain brilliant and will still dazzle all my friends - only I will know that it could have been even faster if I wanted a different trade off.
But long distance travel - the reason I wanted AWD - will be easier with nearly 11% more range.

 

[RachH]

Any car has the potential to kill its occupant. Christine did it decades ago, becoming sentient through the supernatural.

I actually named my car Christine but so far she hasn't killed anyone ;-)

 

[RachH]

Getting back to one of the issues previously at hand -- has anyone made any attempt to get this idea/wish in front of someone who could drive this forward, say, like a product manager at Tesla? I saw the push to send emails to customer support, but not sure that it'll make it out of that front line. There's always the tweet-at-Elon-and-pray method, but unless you've got a huge following that's not really a good guarantee of attention either. Seems that some LinkedIn sleuthing might be able to turn up some folks that might have the power to put something like this into motion if it is possible.

I actually talked to a manager at Tesla and he told me that it was not possible to upgrade a AWD LR to the Performance model because I wanted to do it. But hey, who knows that was two months ago....things can change.

 

[EV-by-the-Sea]

I actually talked to a manager at Tesla and he told me that it was not possible to upgrade a AWD LR to the Performance model because I wanted to do it. But hey, who knows that was two months ago....things can change.

Don't mean for this to come across the wrong way, but if you mean a manager at a store/service center, then I'd almost say take that with a grain of salt. They might not have the full picture of what's possible vs not (though, neither do we I suppose). Again, I think if there's any shot of this working it's probably going to require getting the attention of someone who could drive this forward internally and make the business case for this to happen -- i.e. someone in product management for the 3 or with respect to OTA updates, or any of the other "upgrades" that have ever been made purchasable after the fact for Teslas. I don't profess to know their corporate structure, but ideally would want someone who is developing products/features/enhancements and trying to roll them out to customers.

 

[RachH]

Don't mean for this to come across the wrong way, but if you mean a manager at a store/service center, then I'd almost say take that with a grain of salt. They might not have the full picture of what's possible vs not (though, neither do we I suppose). Again, I think if there's any shot of this working it's probably going to require getting the attention of someone who could drive this forward internally and make the business case for this to happen -- i.e. someone in product management for the 3 or with respect to OTA updates, or any of the other "upgrades" that have ever been made purchasable after the fact for Teslas. I don't profess to know their corporate structure, but ideally would want someone who is developing products/features/enhancements and trying to roll them out to customers.

No offense taken. I hope they actually do it in the future.

But no, it was not at a service center. It was an escalation Manager from the Tesla main office. I have had more issues than I can count and they finally got back to me. He is referring me to the Regional Manager and I will ask him and let you all know. Not sure it will do any good but I'll do it anyway.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Range increased from 560 km to 620 km NEDC, acceleration dropped from 3.4 sec 0-100 km/h to 4.6 sec, top speed fell from 261 km/h to 233 km/h, all done in software ... and my annual insurance costs fell. Physically the car is identical - same trim level, same wheels, tyres and brakes, same build, same VIN description.

But long distance travel - the reason I wanted AWD - will be easier with nearly 11% more range.

This is strange to hear about the NEDC results, because I am not aware of any reports in the US that Performance Stealths get any worse efficiency than AWD vehicles. My brother has a P3D Stealth and his efficiency seems very consistent with AWD owners I know.

I think real world, your range will be no different than a Performance would have been, if indeed it was exactly the same car except for software. But maybe I am wrong?

 

[rontheman]

Just to add my 2 cents to the various issues, and noting that I have a P3- (very happy with it too!)

1 I believe the range difference between P3 and LR AWD is entirely due to the different wheels (ie 20" compared with 18" aeros). Absent the 20" wheels from the P3, essentially giving you the P3-, then the range improves to the LR AWD figure. There is absolutely no mechanical or other reason why they should be any different, assuming you are not taking advantage of the better acceleration.

2 Early adopters of any new technology will invariably pay a price premium. It's an integral part of 101 Product Pricing. Agreed it's annoying if the price comes down days after you got yours, but nothing more.

3 When I collected my car I saw the red line on the bootlid, but no redline on the display or app. Was told on delivery that was normal. Subsequently queried this and after a week received an OTA software update.

4 I popped in to a Tesla store in the UK a couple of days ago asking about availability of P3-. Was told they had some inventory cars which were only available for delivery within 7 days, and not thereafter. Apparently no plans for continuing availability. Not sure what happens to any unsold P3- after the 7 days.

 

[nuclearfusion]

This is strange to hear about the NEDC results, because I am not aware of any reports in the US that Performance Stealths get any worse efficiency than AWD vehicles. My brother has a P3D Stealth and his efficiency seems very consistent with AWD owners I know.

I think real world, your range will be no different than a Performance would have been, if indeed it was exactly the same car except for software. But maybe I am wrong?

Yes - it is curious and without actual driving we can only speculate. However, Tesla does control efficiency, range and performance through software, the increase in Model 3 range about 13 Mar 2019 is an example. How the front and rear motors are utilised can affect range, efficiency and performance and I assume it is those trade-offs that distinguish the Stealth and LR models. I think it unlikely that Tesla would advertise an 11% difference in range unless it were real. It is also possible that they have simplified manufacture since 2018, have standardised front and rear motors and have further distinguished and optimised range, efficiency and performance across the 3 AWD models. I will be looking at the range carefully after I get delivery.