Exactly. Business choice. Hope EV drivers appreciate it. If people stay because of the charger, more will add. If people complain about not being able to use free charger when they don’t stay there, the destination will decide it isn’t worth dealing with the complainers and just remove them.
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Free charging for all EVs -- Should this be a thing?
- Thread starter MarcoRP
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- Canada Charging North America
One thing that this conversation is missing is the unfortunate price disparity between EVSE equipment that allows for paid membership access, vs EVSE equipment that does not. The choices are bleak.
Common EVSE that does not accept payment:
Tesla HPWC, up to 80 amps: $633 CAD
Clipper Creek HCS-60, up to 48 amps: $1145 CAD
Common EVSE that does take payment:
AddEnergie SmartTWO, up to 30 amps: $5,000 CAD
ChargePoint CT4023, dual head up to 30 amps x2: $8,543 CAD
This in part explains free charging being available when really it should be paid charging.
AddEnergie and ChargePoint should get off their duffs and give us the big L2 amps, if their stations are going to be so expensive.
Common EVSE that does not accept payment:
Tesla HPWC, up to 80 amps: $633 CAD
Clipper Creek HCS-60, up to 48 amps: $1145 CAD
Common EVSE that does take payment:
AddEnergie SmartTWO, up to 30 amps: $5,000 CAD
ChargePoint CT4023, dual head up to 30 amps x2: $8,543 CAD
This in part explains free charging being available when really it should be paid charging.
AddEnergie and ChargePoint should get off their duffs and give us the big L2 amps, if their stations are going to be so expensive.
I’m thinking Tesla could add billing for HPWC with firmware update and car computer. Of course, someone would hack it...
Enabling easy pay for HPWC would open the market for people wanting to make them available under the "profit for providing a service" model. Instead of the "providing free charging as advertising" model.
Someone has to pay for the electricity. As I mentioned above... using USA average rates of $0.12/kWh and a S100D that arrives nearly empty. It costs about $10 to charge to full. That cost has to fit the business model.
igotzzoom
Active Member
I don't necessarily have a problem with a subscription based "all you can charge" plan. Like $15-20 a month or something. And if individual businesses or municipalities want to offer "free" charging, that's up to them. But as an overall across-the-board mandate, I'm against it.
No, providing the charger as a service for non guests at a price like $5-10 but free for guests. Why would they want to make a profit from service instead of making publicity? There is a really screwy system in Quebec which asks you: To pay for parking and not charging= $1/hour, Even if you stay at the hotel, you pay for charging. If a network installs their own charger at a hotel, it's ok to pay because it's not in the hotel's ownership. Tesla Destination chargers are supposed to be free, (conditions may apply).
I was just about to mention this and bring up the "long distance" phone call analogy. Remember having to pay 10 cents or 20 cents or more per minute for long distance phone calls? Now long distance calls are free...or at least included in a monthly service plan. A subscription charging service could be nice but I'm sure there will be some users who would abuse it.
igotzzoom
Active Member
Well, kind of like those who are constantly streaming Netflix on their phones or tablets, you could conceivably "throttle" charging for heavy users, or offer a "truly unlimited" plan for like $50 or whatever. I'm thinking a subscription model may be the wave of the future for charging.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Some places may install "free" charging to attract guests or patrons. I will, for example, make a point of shopping/staying/spending my money at places that offer free charging. I'm sure to the site owner, it is just considered an advertising expense. Mostly, I'm talking about L2, but I know of at least one site that offers free DCFC.
I also prefer to use parking garages in places like downtown Toronto that offer free parking. If you are going to the ACC then Brookfield Place is a good place to park as they have lots of chargers, at least for the evening or weekend demand, and you get a prime parking spot.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
As a market differentiator, especially in the early stages, free charging is great.
*Availability* of charging was the first concern, however, when I searched for alternatives in places such as Bar Harbor, Maine and Hilton Head (Island), South Carolina.
Once availability was determined, then all things being equal, I'd of course pursue the "free" ones. Now, in general, "free" isn't free. For example, on Hilton Head, there was a free L2 at a... Wendy's iirc. Brand new, 30A service, worked fine - but as we know, 30A (24A) is slow as molasses, and time on pretty much any island is money from an enjoyment perspective). On the other hand, there were 2, count 'em, 2 HPWCs at a (Tesla owner's) fine cantina (100A so 80A service) - guess where I spent happy hour more than once? The fact that they flew in their ribs from a fine Ohio establishment (replete with bibs) didn't hurt.
When I book hotels in non-SC-served areas, of course I stay at the L2-enabled properties when possible.
As far as ubiquitously free is concerned, well, here's the thing. In the early days of wifi, it was common for coffee houses to charge and charge healthily. Today, wifi is free to the customer everywhere with rare exception. If one defines everywhere to truly mean everywhere, then I suspect we'll have to wait another 10 years for satellite coverage.
EV charging being free for all? Sure - someday. It's the definition of free that may get some tweaking is all. Consider even roadway-embedded charging (currently piloted in the UK and elsewhere) - a differentiation between *free* and *freely available* may ensue.
Free supercharging will continue to work and will continue to be a differentiator as the costs of solar and batteries drop. Why? Because it ain't free, folks. When you spend $250K for 2 cars and see how much you have left in 5 years or even 3 years, that point will become glaringly apparent.
In the intermediate term, there will be some hurdles (see Model 3 charging). And the exclusionists will continue to make a contrary case, of course. But in the end? Freely available, for sure. Free? Depends upon your definition and perspective, I suppose.
*Availability* of charging was the first concern, however, when I searched for alternatives in places such as Bar Harbor, Maine and Hilton Head (Island), South Carolina.
Once availability was determined, then all things being equal, I'd of course pursue the "free" ones. Now, in general, "free" isn't free. For example, on Hilton Head, there was a free L2 at a... Wendy's iirc. Brand new, 30A service, worked fine - but as we know, 30A (24A) is slow as molasses, and time on pretty much any island is money from an enjoyment perspective). On the other hand, there were 2, count 'em, 2 HPWCs at a (Tesla owner's) fine cantina (100A so 80A service) - guess where I spent happy hour more than once? The fact that they flew in their ribs from a fine Ohio establishment (replete with bibs) didn't hurt.
When I book hotels in non-SC-served areas, of course I stay at the L2-enabled properties when possible.
As far as ubiquitously free is concerned, well, here's the thing. In the early days of wifi, it was common for coffee houses to charge and charge healthily. Today, wifi is free to the customer everywhere with rare exception. If one defines everywhere to truly mean everywhere, then I suspect we'll have to wait another 10 years for satellite coverage.
EV charging being free for all? Sure - someday. It's the definition of free that may get some tweaking is all. Consider even roadway-embedded charging (currently piloted in the UK and elsewhere) - a differentiation between *free* and *freely available* may ensue.
Free supercharging will continue to work and will continue to be a differentiator as the costs of solar and batteries drop. Why? Because it ain't free, folks. When you spend $250K for 2 cars and see how much you have left in 5 years or even 3 years, that point will become glaringly apparent.
In the intermediate term, there will be some hurdles (see Model 3 charging). And the exclusionists will continue to make a contrary case, of course. But in the end? Freely available, for sure. Free? Depends upon your definition and perspective, I suppose.
It is reasonable for a business to offer free charging to attract customers. So a hotel could give free charging to paying customers. Many do actually. But to prevent abuse some don’t allow non-customers to charge, or may require a fee. All good.
dasRad
Member
I’ve been to 4 MEC locations in the last year. Two of them have EV charging; 2 of them don’t.
Sweeping generalizations, especially when they are wrong, are best avoided when trying to make a point.
But... there are occasions where there are Hotel destination chargers but there is no vacancy. Also, they will not let you charge there even for a fee. This can leave you in a bad position while traveling in plenty of areas in North America where there are no superchargers or chademo.
Anyway...I am also one that believes in having free charging as a means for tipping ice people towards electric adoption.
Anyway...I am also one that believes in having free charging as a means for tipping ice people towards electric adoption.
IMHO expecting charging to be free everywhere is greedy and wrong. While Tesla offering free supercharging with a few stipulations makes sense for them, as it encourages people to buy their cars, the same cannot he said for most other manufacturers. Especially since most of them are expecting governments to handle charging infrastructure.
Where I do not have access to Teslas supercharger network (yet), I have been looking at charging options around where I am. Are there free chargers? Yeah, a few at select car dealerships and public buildings (libraries, museums, etc), and there are dedicated chargers that are pay to use. Do I expect them to all be free? Hell no.
I too think there should be some form of monthly membership for charging infrastructure to handle costs and maintenance. Anything else is going to be doomed to failure.
Where I do not have access to Teslas supercharger network (yet), I have been looking at charging options around where I am. Are there free chargers? Yeah, a few at select car dealerships and public buildings (libraries, museums, etc), and there are dedicated chargers that are pay to use. Do I expect them to all be free? Hell no.
I too think there should be some form of monthly membership for charging infrastructure to handle costs and maintenance. Anything else is going to be doomed to failure.
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