Free unlimited supercharging vs (paying for) installing charger at home...

[mswlogo]

Well, in my situation it’s an older home from
1950s with original electrical. Pretty janky to be honest.

The panel is inside above laundry machine enclosed in a cabinet and is only 100 amps. When we moved in, the inspector had questions about it but it was a “sellers market” so not a deal breaker for us.

Now with the new car, getting the panel and electrical upgraded with a NEMA 14-50 is sort of a 2 birds kinda deal. It’s just a lot of money compared to the alternative of doing nothing to the house and using free unlimited supercharging...

Again if your gonna spend that much money (doing the right thing for the long run). Why cripple it to 32A, because that’s all you can pull from a 14-50 outlet. Because the UMC is intended to be a light weight, light duty, portable unit for charging.

You could install a Wall Connector with 60A wiring. And hook it to a 20A 240V breaker (assuming you can make space and it does not violate panel capacity). Then dial the Wall Connector to 16A (still way better than 120V). Later, when funds allow or other remodeling project, new solar or what ever you can upgrade your panel any time. You’d have almost zero waste and after the new panel is in, then you dial the wall connector up to 48A (by turning a screw).

The only waste in materials would be a 20A 240V non GFCI breaker. $20?

You might find 16A more than adequate or you might find you want more and that could be a justification to upgrade your panel as well, at that time.

This also allows you to keep your portable UMC with your car for emergency charging. The M in UMC stands for MOBILE.

 

[Bet TSLA]

You could install a Wall Connector with 60A wiring.

Upgrading the panel is one thing that makes the job potentially expensive. The other is the wiring. If you need a long run from the panel it's quite expensive. Running a fatter wire than you need makes it even more expensive, in a way that makes it easy to upgrade but you may never use. Even if you do the job yourself, the cost of the wire for a long run is significant.

Me, I've been happy with my NEMA 14-50 plus a heavy duty extension cord (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XL2IG8/). This has handled my S since 2014 and my S and 3 since 2017. Since 2017 I've used the newer UMC and charged at 32A rather than 40A. I charge each car every few days depending on use.

Another approach that costs money now but makes operating costs lower is to install some solar and a PowerWall. Using that to charge your car means that it's running on sunlight, which is a good feeling. That also certainly translates to higher resale value on your home.

 

[mswlogo]

Upgrading the panel is one thing that makes the job potentially expensive. The other is the wiring. If you need a long run from the panel it's quite expensive. Running a fatter wire than you need makes it even more expensive, in a way that makes it easy to upgrade but you may never use. Even if you do the job yourself, the cost of the wire for a long run is significant.

Me, I've been happy with my NEMA 14-50 plus a heavy duty extension cord (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002XL2IG8/). This has handled my S since 2014 and my S and 3 since 2017. Since 2017 I've used the newer UMC and charged at 32A rather than 40A. I charge each car every few days depending on use.

Another approach that costs money now but makes operating costs lower is to install some solar and a PowerWall. Using that to charge your car means that it's running on sunlight, which is a good feeling. That also certainly translates to higher resale value on your home.

For 125 ft of 12-2 it’s like $70
For 125 ft of 6-2 it’s like $180

Big deal.

Extension cords add unnecessary risk. More connections adds more places to fail. Things do fail. Your just adding more failure points by using an extension cord. The UMC has a temperature sensor in the plug for safety reasons. Adding an extension cord essentially defeats that safety feature. Tesla knows that’s a failure point and that’s why it smartly shuts down if it senses the plug getting hot.

Do the job right. Don’t use a “portable” connector (UMC) and extension cords for a permanent installation. If your planning on renovations or moving or something sure. But if that’s your long term solution I think it’s worth it to do a more robust installation.

You have to realize you’re charging for very long periods at pretty high amps often unattended while your sleeping. It’s worth taking every step possible to make it as robust as you can. The difference in cost is ridiculously small in the big scheme of things.

 

[TexasEV]

This also allows you to keep your portable UMC with your car for emergency charging. The M in UMC stands for MOBILE.

And the M is a capability, not a requirement. Take it with you when you are going on vacation, otherwise leave it plugged in and hanging on a hook in the garage. There’s no such thing as a charging emergency in a 240-320 mile EV being driven around town. This is not a Leaf.

 

[mswlogo]

And the M is a capability, not a requirement. Take it with you when you are going on vacation, otherwise leave it plugged in and hanging on a hook in the garage. There’s no such thing as a charging emergency in a 240-320 mile EV being driven around town. This is not a Leaf.

I don’t want to forget it. Perhaps you plan ahead better than me. I never plan to use it, ever. The less you need it the more likely you’ll forget it. And one time you need it you won’t have it. It’s kept with the tire plug kit and the jack (also hope to never use). I never had to plan what I pack for an ICE car why change my ways for an EV. Just equip your car for all scenarios all the time and relax. It’s not like it’s heavy, large or expensive.

Tesla does not even sell a wall bracket for it. It’s a portable unit. The wall connector is what Tesla intends you to use for permanent home charging. I think that is partly why they no longer include 14-50 adapter. They want to steer folks away from “plugs”. It’s not about them making a buck. They want customers to have the most convenient and safest experience.

 

[c.ross3]

After 1 year with my model 3, I tell my friends/family that if they don’t have EV charging at home then an EV is not right for them. Of course the one exception is having EV charging at work. It’s just my opinion.

At home, I have a Tesla HPWC at 30A and I honestly think it is so fast. If a 110 v is available that could really help, too. I don’t particularly like the 110/15A and I have added a 110/20A adaptor for use at our summer cabin and it works out great. Takes about a day and a half to charge from near zero.

 

[ivan801]

So just to clarify, do you have a 120V outlet in your garage? Is it on a separate breaker that allows you to make sure nothing else draws a lot of power from the same breaker (like power tools, etc)? If so, just use 120V and see how that works for you before you spend any money.

 

[Bet TSLA]

For 125 ft of 12-2 it’s like $70
For 125 ft of 6-2 it’s like $180

Big deal.

Extension cords add unnecessary risk. More connections adds more places to fail. Things do fail. Your just adding more failure points by using an extension cord. The UMC has a temperature sensor in the plug for safety reasons. Adding an extension cord essentially defeats that safety feature. Tesla knows that’s a failure point and that’s why it smartly shuts down if it senses the plug getting hot.

Do the job right. Don’t use a “portable” connector (UMC) and extension cords for a permanent installation. If your planning on renovations or moving or something sure. But if that’s your long term solution I think it’s worth it to do a more robust installation.

You have to realize you’re charging for very long periods at pretty high amps often unattended while your sleeping. It’s worth taking every step possible to make it as robust as you can. The difference in cost is ridiculously small in the big scheme of things.

You seem to be very eager to spend other people's money for no discernible gain. My solution is quite safe and gets the job done for far less than it would cost to do the job "right". That would entail two HPWC's for the two cars, a new panel because I'd need another breaker, putting the HPWC's outside because that's where the cars park. It would be a truly stupid solution in terms of cost, but it would be "right". I see no need to spend an extra $3000 when I got the whole job done by an electrician for about $800 five years ago.

Note: I've checked multiple times and there is no discernible warming of the fat extension cord. Or the UMC for that matter.

 

[StealthP3D]

Since it’s so typically cheap to add an EV outlet it will rarely make any kind of differentiator. Some folks installed there own for $100. Your kidding yourself if you think it will make any difference.

It sounds like the OP's electrical panel could use an upgrade anyway and that is where most of the expense will come from. It certainly does add value to the home to upgrade antiquated equipment and while you're at it, adding EV charging equipment certainly does add some value. The world is going electric and the fact that it looks like the US will be somewhat behind the worldwide adoption curve doesn't really negate that. It's actually a shame that powerful interests are working to slow the adoption of cleaner, more renewable energy and the more we can do to sidestep that attempt the better off we will be.

 

[StealthP3D]

So just to clarify, do you have a 120V outlet in your garage? Is it on a separate breaker that allows you to make sure nothing else draws a lot of power from the same breaker (like power tools, etc)? If so, just use 120V and see how that works for you before you spend any money.

I'm not going to say a 15A 120V circuit won't work for a low mileage driver who spends a majority of time at home won't work because it can. But it's far from ideal (having much experience with it). It has three major disadvantages:

1) It takes an inordinate amount of time to go from a low state of charge to full.
2) It's less efficient.
3) When preheating, the car draws more power than a 120V 15 amp circuit can provide. This means you will be adding battery cycles and degrading the battery unnecessarily.

 

[mswlogo]

It sounds like the OP's electrical panel could use an upgrade anyway and that is where most of the expense will come from. It certainly does add value to the home to upgrade antiquated equipment and while you're at it, adding EV charging equipment certainly does add some value. The world is going electric and the fact that it looks like the US will be somewhat behind the worldwide adoption curve doesn't really negate that. It's actually a shame that powerful interests are working to slow the adoption of cleaner, more renewable energy and the more we can do to sidestep that attempt the better off we will be.

The world is going more and more efficient too. I use way less electricity than I did 20 years ago ( even with my EV). I had 100 amp 30 years ago and have 100 amp today (all new service with solar).

I may have missed it but in this case he has not shared much about his panel. I never saw anything about antiquated. All we know is he got a quote for thousands.

I think a lot of people jump immediately to 14-50. Which is dumber than heck. Because they might be exceeding their panel for a capacity they can’t even use. They ask an electrician for 14-50 and he says you need a new panel but he doesn’t know it will only pull 32A nor does the customer. Maybe he could fit 30A. But people don’t ask that. The question should be what can I fit. And then decide if more amps is worth a new panel. Almost any panel can probably squeeze a 20A 240V. But lots of panels can’t add 50A.

If a service is “antiquated” sure go fix it. The fact you can’t add 14-50 doesn’t automatically make your service panel antiquated. And switching a perfectly fine panel from 100A to 200A in of itself doesn’t add much value if 100A was already sufficient.

Sure an EV outlet adds about as much as a pretty mail box to the value of your home.

And if you do want to add value to your home a Wall Connector looks way more impressive than a 14-50 outlet.

 

[mswlogo]

You seem to be very eager to spend other people's money for no discernible gain. My solution is quite safe and gets the job done for far less than it would cost to do the job "right". That would entail two HPWC's for the two cars, a new panel because I'd need another breaker, putting the HPWC's outside because that's where the cars park. It would be a truly stupid solution in terms of cost, but it would be "right". I see no need to spend an extra $3000 when I got the whole job done by an electrician for about $800 five years ago.

Note: I've checked multiple times and there is no discernible warming of the fat extension cord. Or the UMC for that matter.

And you keep suggesting a extension cord is just as safe. I’ll bet you have no GFCI either. Because something didn’t demand it, therefore it’s just as safe right.

I don’t know your exact situation but I’d be surprised if your one outlet couldn’t be put in reach of both cars. The UMC is what 20 ft. Cars would have to be 40 ft apart.

You always want cords to be short as possible.

Do you know why the code requires outlets be in stalled at a certain rate. Because the code does NOT want people using extension cords.

Do you know why an outlet MUST be installed near a pool. Because the code does NOT want people using extension cords.

And that’s for 15-20A 120V

And what do you do. You suggest 50A 240V extension cords.

Extension cords are bad.
No GFCI are bad.
No temp sensor on your extension cord is bad.

But you haven’t burned down your house yet and therefore it’s safe and everyone else should do the same because you saved a few dollars.

Sounds like a lot of work dragging long heavy cables around to keep both cars charged too.

 

[golfpilot]

I'm using the mobile connector connected to a 14-50, 6 gauge wire, and a 60 amp breaker.
I'll eventually want to daisy chain two Tesla Wall Chargers when we get another Tesla. That is why I had it installed that way. But for now the Tesla charges by morning, the prius charges via 110, and the Rav4 only drives when the Tesla doesn't and it sits at ~50% unplugged the rest of the time.
I would gain 0 benefit right now for buying a wall unit and charging at 48amps. I'm charged .11-.14 (winter summer) cents a KW all times a day. I'll wait for when I need it and get the newest one or 2 at a discount.

 

[Nguyenning]

It sounds like the OP's electrical panel could use an upgrade anyway and that is where most of the expense will come from. It certainly does add value to the home to upgrade antiquated equipment and while you're at it, adding EV charging equipment certainly does add some value. The world is going electric and the fact that it looks like the US will be somewhat behind the worldwide adoption curve doesn't really negate that. It's actually a shame that powerful interests are working to slow the adoption of cleaner, more renewable energy and the more we can do to sidestep that attempt the better off we will be.

Yes. The home value IMO would benefit from the panel upgrade (not necessarily the NEMA 14-50 outlet for charging haha, but can't hurt)
It's just a tough pill ($$$) to swallow...

 

[StealthP3D]

Well, in my situation it’s an older home from
1950s with original electrical. Pretty janky to be honest.

Does it have aluminum wiring? If so, scary stuff.

The reason inspectors flag antiquated panels is that they really do burn houses down (and peoples lives along with them).

 

[powaking]

What are your major electrical pulls in the house? That would also determine how big of a circuit you can dedicate to EV charging. For me I have a 100amp service and my electrician installed my HPWC on a 50amp breaker with 6awg wiring (pulling 40amps which is half of what the house can pull; I own a 2 family and live in one of the apartments so not a lot of electrical use to begin with). A few things to keep in mind is I have a gas stove, gas dryer and a gas on-demand water heater. Really the only major electrical usage devices I have is the fridge and freezer in the basement (and of course the kids xbox and ps4; damn Fortnite). Unfortunately I can’t sustain this during the summer months when the window AC units get put in. I will have to set the cars charging limit to half or even 1/3 of the pull and just plug the car in more frequently.

Initially I tried the 110v charging but it was painfully slow and just having the UMC hanging around wasn’t ideal. I rather install a HPWC and keep the UMC in the car for those ‘just in case’ moments and utilize SC when needed. You may be able to get away with 110v but would consider something larger even if you don’t want to go the HPWC route.

 

[StealthP3D]

I'm using the mobile connector connected to a 14-50, 6 gauge wire, and a 60 amp breaker.
I'll eventually want to daisy chain two Tesla Wall Chargers when we get another Tesla. That is why I had it installed that way. But for now the Tesla charges by morning, the prius charges via 110, and the Rav4 only drives when the Tesla doesn't and it sits at ~50% unplugged the rest of the time.

Why the heck would you protect a 50 amp outlet with a 60 amp breaker? Someone doesn't know what they were doing. Not safe and not to code.

 

[Dana1]

I know “a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla”...

But when considering the $ quotes to install a charger at home (I’ve gotten quotes in the thousands given my setup) vs. just using free unlimited supercharging, I’m wondering why this wouldn’t be a viable option if:

1.) you have free unlimited supercharging
2.) you have a supercharger near you (mine’s only 2 miles away fortunately)


Would this be ok to do?

No. Supercharging is for travel. There are more Teslas than Superchargers and we could lock up the network if everyone decides to use that as their normal charging solution. I think it would also get old after awhile. Enjoy the convenience of plugging in at night.

On Teslas website you can get an installation quote from Tesla themselves by submitting photos. My panel is outside but had available space. It was a 50’ run of conduit outside, into and across the garage and down to the HPWC. I had paint and they even painted the conduit. Beautiful job. Including the cost of walll Charger I think it was about $1300.

 

[golfpilot]

Why the heck would you protect a 50 amp outlet with a 60 amp breaker? Someone doesn't know what they were doing. Not safe and not to code.

Why the heck would you protect a 50 amp outlet with a 60 amp breaker? Someone doesn't know what they were doing. Not safe and not to code.

Its a 50 amp breaker. That was a typo

 

[Nguyenning]

No. Supercharging is for travel. There are more Teslas than Superchargers and we could lock up the network if everyone decides to use that as their normal charging solution. I think it would also get old after awhile. Enjoy the convenience of plugging in at night.

On Teslas website you can get an installation quote from Tesla themselves by submitting photos. My panel is outside but had available space. It was a 50’ run of conduit outside, into and across the garage and down to the HPWC. I had paint and they even painted the conduit. Beautiful job. Including the cost of walll Charger I think it was about $1300.

Damn, not a bad quote.
Unfortunately, my issue is the old original panel is inside and would need to be moved outside. Upgraded panel means a new meter as well to support it. Then I'm just installing the NEMA 14-50 outlet right next to all of this outside. Got a quote of $2,100 which isn't bad considering some were well over $5-$6k...