Free unlimited supercharging vs (paying for) installing charger at home...

[mswlogo]

After 1 year with my model 3, I tell my friends/family that if they don’t have EV charging at home then an EV is not right for them. Of course the one exception is having EV charging at work. It’s just my opinion.

At home, I have a Tesla HPWC at 30A and I honestly think it is so fast. If a 110 v is available that could really help, too. I don’t particularly like the 110/15A and I have added a 110/20A adaptor for use at our summer cabin and it works out great. Takes about a day and a half to charge from near zero.

Exactly !! I added a 110/20A to keep with the car too. But I installed a HPWC 40A at my "cabin".
We drive around a lot near the cabin and the closest SC is 50 miles away.
My cabin has a better setup than my main home. It's much colder at the cabin (we use it year round but way more in the summer), no garage and so charging is out in the elements.

One other thing I figured is, if it's freezing rain and I'm charging outdoors. I have enough headroom I can wait for better conditions to charge. Especially with the issues of the frozen charge port. So I can charge say the next morning after we arrive. If it was on 120V I might not have a choice of when to plug in. Also it can get really cold, easily -10F, and charging on 120V in -10F could take forever.

There is a SC along the way but I prefer not want to have to stop for an hour when it's 11PM and we have another hour of driving to go.
And SC is way more expensive.

More amps does give more flexibility.

 

[dhrivnak]

I know “a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla”...

But when considering the $ quotes to install a charger at home (I’ve gotten quotes in the thousands given my setup) vs. just using free unlimited supercharging, I’m wondering why this wouldn’t be a viable option if:

1.) you have free unlimited supercharging
2.) you have a supercharger near you (mine’s only 2 miles away fortunately)


Would this be ok to do?

OK yes but HUGELY inconvenient. One of the best aspects of an EV is the convenience of charging at home. Even a 20 amp 220 circuit would cover 90% of your needs. So yes I would install a home charging circuit. It will also add to the resale value of your house.

 

[Bet TSLA]

And you keep suggesting a extension cord is just as safe. I’ll bet you have no GFCI either. Because something didn’t demand it, therefore it’s just as safe right.

I don’t know your exact situation but I’d be surprised if your one outlet couldn’t be put in reach of both cars. The UMC is what 20 ft. Cars would have to be 40 ft apart.

You always want cords to be short as possible.

Do you know why the code requires outlets be in stalled at a certain rate. Because the code does NOT want people using extension cords.

Do you know why an outlet MUST be installed near a pool. Because the code does NOT want people using extension cords.

And that’s for 15-20A 120V

And what do you do. You suggest 50A 240V extension cords.

Extension cords are bad.
No GFCI are bad.
No temp sensor on your extension cord is bad.

But you haven’t burned down your house yet and therefore it’s safe and everyone else should do the same because you saved a few dollars.

Sounds like a lot of work dragging long heavy cables around to keep both cars charged too.

What's remarkable is how you're wrong about everything. You keep guessing and assuming stupid stuff. Maybe you should stick to solving your own problems to your own satisfaction. Nobody else will care if you solve them stupidly and expensively.

 

[brianman]

Well, in my situation it’s an older home from
1950s with original electrical. Pretty janky to be honest.

The panel is inside above laundry machine enclosed in a cabinet and is only 100 amps. When we moved in, the inspector had questions about it but it was a “sellers market” so not a deal breaker for us.

In your shoes, I would consider upgrading the electrical for safety and flexibility alone. (Independent of EV-related goals.)

 

[mswlogo]

What's remarkable is how you're wrong about everything. You keep guessing and assuming stupid stuff. Maybe you should stick to solving your own problems to your own satisfaction. Nobody else will care if you solve them stupidly and expensively.

Maybe he should stop suggesting stupid stuff. Maybe you might learn something some day. Probably not by the looks of it.

Nothing is more valuable than safety. Nothing.

He is suggesting 3 things I would never do. I was an electrician in my younger years and have installed 2 wall connectors and 2 outlets. How many have you installed?

It’s his liability, his family, his choice to add unnecessary risk.

If you want to think he’s right and I’m stupid. That’s fine. I know what is safer and that’s all that matters. After spending $80k on the car I could care less if I have spend a few more $$ to make it as safe as I can.

And when I was an electrician I replaced a lot of fried 30 amp dryer outlets. I know what can happen. Especially in damp locations in garage. With 50 amp UMC plug going into an extension cord sitting on the damp concrete floor.

Yeah I’m stupid one.

 

[lordcn]

Do you have a clothes dryer within reach? Typically 30amps and 220v. Or ask an electrician for a quote for a dryer installation with nema 14 50.

 

[Ziaislam]

If you have chargers at work - then between the 120 and office chargers - you should have more than plenty of juice. I have not installed a 240 yet despite having a a quote for $1000 to do it.

 

[Blitzfire911]

I know “a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla”...

But when considering the $ quotes to install a charger at home (I’ve gotten quotes in the thousands given my setup) vs. just using free unlimited supercharging, I’m wondering why this wouldn’t be a viable option if:

1.) you have free unlimited supercharging
2.) you have a supercharger near you (mine’s only 2 miles away fortunately)


Would this be ok to do?

I would say you're better off charging at home than at a supercharger for the long term. Fast charging is great when needed, but it does shorten the life of the battery faster than slowly charging it.

 

[MGWrench]

I am a total believer in home charging even though there is a supercharger about 3 miles from my home.

Before my M3 was delivered, I bought the Tesla Wall Charger. For $500 I thought it was a great deal and it forced me to finally finish the wall in my garage where it is mounted. I spent $85 on a 60A breaker for my Garage Panel and the 15' of 6/3 cable to connect it. For less than $600 I had my Wall Charger installed and operational. I thought it was a good expenditure and would do it again even if I had to pay an electrician to do it for me. As has been mentioned earlier, I will not skimp on making my home safe nor causing myself anguish over how to charge my car. BTW, with the 60A circuit, it takes 3 or 4 hours to fully charge my car. During the winter, I found if I let it charge when I got home until it had about an hour to go and stopped it, I could finish the charge when I woke up and get the car warmed up while it was still charging before leaving the house. The car was warm and fully charged when I left and it has performed beautifully.

 

[G78M3]

Everything that has been said for Home charging... plus supercharging every single week for a few years will be detrimental for the battery life over the long run

 

[ClydeO]

I paid to have a 220V line ran into the garage off of a 50 amp breaker from the elec box with a Nema 14-50 receptacle placed on the wall.
$450 all done by an electrician. Works well.

 

[wcorey]

I know “a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla”...

But when considering the $ quotes to install a charger at home (I’ve gotten quotes in the thousands given my setup) vs. just using free unlimited supercharging, I’m wondering why this wouldn’t be a viable option if:

1.) you have free unlimited supercharging
2.) you have a supercharger near you (mine’s only 2 miles away fortunately)


Would this be ok to do?

First, constant use of a supercharger is bad for the battery.

The UMC is designed for on-the-road usage. If one consistently uses it in their garage the odds are very good, after some time, it will never see it's way back into the trunk and be gone when you are out of electricity on the road.

A second UMC is $300. You can get a long way towards 240v 30a in your garage with that. Used Type II chargers for Priuses, Leafs etc are available. New cost $200+

You don't need a Tesla Charger, I use the Level II charger I used with my Prius. It charges at a rate of 22 miles in an hour which is more than sufficient for virtually anyone's daily use.

For instance, I have a single 50a drop off my main panel to the garage for multiple uses on that side of the house plus garage doors, outlet and 30a circuit for the Level II charger.

The run from your main to the garage need not be routed through your house, it can go outside. An electrician can price out both costs.

 

[mswlogo]

I am a total believer in home charging even though there is a supercharger about 3 miles from my home. View attachment 404619 Before my M3 was delivered, I bought the Tesla Wall Charger. For $500 I thought it was a great deal and it forced me to finally finish the wall in my garage where it is mounted. I spent $85 on a 60A breaker for my Garage Panel and the 15' of 6/3 cable to connect it. For less than $600 I had my Wall Charger installed and operational. I thought it was a good expenditure and would do it again even if I had to pay an electrician to do it for me. As has been mentioned earlier, I will not skimp on making my home safe nor causing myself anguish over how to charge my car. BTW, with the 60A circuit, it takes 3 or 4 hours to fully charge my car. During the winter, I found if I let it charge when I got home until it had about an hour to go and stopped it, I could finish the charge when I woke up and get the car warmed up while it was still charging before leaving the house. The car was warm and fully charged when I left and it has performed beautifully.

Curious what amperage you have your Wall Charger set at?

Note: 6/3 romex (you really only need 6/2 BTW) is rated for 55A. You are allowed to use a 60A breaker, but it's still essentially a 55A Circuit.

If you set your wall charger to 48A that would be 87% of a 55A circuit and would exceed 80% of 55A.

I hope you set your Wall Charger to 40A. Because I can't fully charge my car in 3-4 hours at 40A.

Unless you ran 6 AWG in conduit, that would be overkill and it would be much cheaper easier to use 4-2 AWG and 60 Amp breaker.

I'm just pointing a common misunderstanding with 6 AWG Romex and 60A breakers and Wall Chargers.

 

[Gray468]

I have a 2017 Model S 100D HW2 with the upgraded charger. I had an electrician replace the 30 Amp/240 volt ( pulls 24/236, about 16-17 mph) dryer outlet with a more robust “industrial” version, designed for frequent plug/unplugging. At the time we still had a dryer and my assumption was the outlet was 40 years old and probably not happy about frequent plug/unplugs.

The electrician didn’t think it was necessary. But did it. I assume the plug he put in was better than what was there.

I knew we were going to switch the dryer to gas when the old one crapped out. That happens 18 months later and none too soon. Plug/unplug was/is a pain.

When I had the electrician install a new plug, I also asked for a switch so I could “turn off” the plug when not charging the car. Again, I was thinking ahead to when the plug would be in 24/7. Having the Tesla charger energized 24/7 did not seem like a good idea. Anyway, he talked me out of it, saying it is not necessary and besides that there is no such thing and would he need to jury rig (to code) something.

Does that sound right?

And I am happy with my 17 mph charging. I usually keep the car in the 50-70% range. I will load it up if going on a trip, but rarely past 90%. Of the 30k miles on the car, probably 20k are Supercharger. I have done several long trips, first one alone was 10k.

I have no trouble with Supercharger time. Either eating or reading. Both things I can happily do at an always nearby restaurant or in the comfort of the car.

 

[Ficheh]

I got my Model 3 in 7/18 so I don't get free supercharging.. I originally was going to buy the wall charger, but after checking with an electrician, it was going to cost over 8k to do it (my panel wasn't big enough, since my house was built in 1972. The wires coming into my house are underground (I'd have to cover tearing up my driveway and sidewalk to replace the wires). I do have an unused dryer outlet (my dryer is gas) which I used (30 amp) and my car charges @ 23 mph. The one thing no one has touched on is that supercharging also degrades the battery faster than slower charging, which is why Tesla recommends only using superchargers on trips.

 

[Gray468]

I got my Model 3 in 7/18. ..... The one thing no one has touched on is that supercharging also degrades the battery faster than slower charging, which is why Tesla recommends only using superchargers on trips.

See my post above yours. 2/3 of my 30k miles are Supercharger. When I use them, I generally charge to 90-95% as I am driving distance right away. To date, my Model S100D suggest a 1.5% degradation. That’s over two years and 30k miles. From what I can tell based on various posts on degradation, that no better or worse than expected regardless how you charge.

Would be interested in other experiences (ie data vs conjecture or theory).

I am impressed with the 23 mph from a dryer socket. That’s 35% more than I am getting. What amps/volts does your car say it’s pulling?

 

[SparkyB]

I know “a plugged in Tesla is a happy Tesla”...

But when considering the $ quotes to install a charger at home (I’ve gotten quotes in the thousands given my setup) vs. just using free unlimited supercharging, I’m wondering why this wouldn’t be a viable option if:

1.) you have free unlimited supercharging
2.) you have a supercharger near you (mine’s only 2 miles away fortunately)


Would this be ok to do?

This gets complicated fast. Cost I hired an electrician to put in a new sub panel in my house and rewire part of the old panel to get 240 votes 100 amps to the sub panel. That cost me $1,114 for the panel and the plug. Then the Tesla charger was $500 and $38 for a pig tail from the charger to the plug. So, $1,652 and that should be about the max you'd have to pay.... At my girlfriends house I wired a 50 AMP plug near an existing panel for less than $120 in parts and the charger was $649 because it has to support more that a Tesla (Chevy) so it is a ChargePoint 32 Amp 240 Volt Level 2... I have a Model 3, no free supercharging, so I needed good chargers. If you are getting quoted thousands you may have the wrong electrician is all.

Following up on a comment: 240 volt 20 amp circuit is easy and uses #12 wire. Put in a plug and use a Tesla Gen 2 portable charger in a 20 amp circuit will still be much better than nothing. Charger $300 DYI plug and circuit breaker $70. NEMA 6-20 adapter from Tesla $35 and it won't over stress the 100 amp panel. If you have the portable charger already the 240 Volt 20 amp solution may be the best for you.

Last issue. If you have a very old panel it may have safety or code issues that you want to consider. If you burn down you house because you have a panel problem you probably should have just replaced it anyway, just to get the new safer circuit breakers technology. Plus it will bring the house up to the current building code. If you need to do it for safety reasons you may just want to bite the bullet and do it. The one unknown is the feed wire to the house limited to 100 Amps... my feed wire was fine for more than 200 amps so I didn't have to do anything about that.

 

[Rogo]

After getting quotes from electricians asking $800-1000, decided to install 240v/50amp NEMA 14-50 outlet myself. Would up being much easier than I thought, and only cost about $400 -- would have been $100 less if my local county didn't require all wire to be in metal conduit (Lake County, IL). Most of that cost was the 125ft of 6/3 wire I needed to get from the breaker box on the opposite corner of my house in the basement up to my garage. Project would have taken no more than 1-2 hours if not for the headache of running that heavy wire through conduit! Problem would be that 100amp box, which you might want to upgrade anyway. But keep in mind, the car won't pull all 50 amps and if you're charging at overnight, it will probably be the only thing pulling power, so won't blow your breaker.

 

[Tonyski]

Our situation was possibly similar in that our 100a panel was on the opposite side of the house from the garage and it would cost over $3000 to install an additional panel and run 50a service to the garage. However, we were lucky that there was a gas line available in the laundry room so we switched to a gas dryer and used the empty 220V 30a breaker for a 24a EVSE which charges my M3 at 22 mph. It only cost $400 to run #12 cable from the laundry room to the garage. We got an added benefit since the gas dryer is much more energy efficient than the electric dryer.
Hope you can find an easy solution for a 220V circuit. Even if it is only 20a service you can get a
16a EVSE which will charge at 11 mph for your MS.

 

[Mike Robinson]

What’s your time worth? That’s why I cashed in on free super charge. Time sitting at super charger is way more valuable to me. And twice as valuable if I have passenger with me.

People automatically think they need 50A to charge when for most folks that’s overkill.

120V 15A is useful but can be annoyingly slow and slightly inefficient. But just jumping to 20A 240V nearly triples the charge rate for typically small money to install and rarely would exceed your panel limit if it’s nearly full.

Also have to factor in cold weather if that applies. You want some headroom for battery pre heat and option to cabin preheat when needed.

VERY good analysis