Fremont delivery - car refused

[Electroman]

Car is perfect, except for stress crack in windshield which is being repaired tomorrow. Vin 23XX.

You see? As simple as that !

 

[Planned_Apathy]

VA isn't entirely without justification. We've been around long enough that having to put up with the "care bears" can be tiresome, and detrimental to our investment in $TSLA, and the company in general. Sometimes we're a bit quick to judge. I've been guilty of that a time or two.

If this kind of compliant message from anyone -- sincere or insincere -- can "be detrimental to our investment in $TSLA, and the company in general," then that effectively qualifies as admission that (1) it's a terrible investment and (2) the analyst or investor is a terrible analyst or investor. I'm truly embarrassed for this "value analyst" if he or she really believes what he or she wrote. Even if the OP's posts here weren't sufficient to place him or her far beyond any legitimate suspicion. And OP's posts here are very clearly are sufficient to survive any rational credibility test.

Some people are here to share and exchange accurate information and sincere perceptions about the cars and the company. Some good. Some bad. Some right and some wrong. Most subject to reasonable disagreement and differing opinions. Those are the legitimate users.

So who are the illegitimate users who should be subject to scrutiny and suspicion? People like the "value analyst" and the others who are here trying to "support" their investment holdings by any means necessary. The fact that he, she, and they think they are capable of doing so by shouting down and denigrating online complaints and criticisms and personally attacking the speaker? Unbelievable incompetence and completely illegitimate -- and positively embarrassing.

 

[ACA Man]

If this kind of compliant message from anyone -- sincere or insincere -- can "be detrimental to our investment in $TSLA, and the company in general," then that effectively qualifies as admission that (1) it's a terrible investment and (2) the analyst or investor is a terrible analyst or investor. I'm truly embarrassed for this "value analyst" if he or she really believes what he or she wrote. Even if the OP's posts here weren't sufficient to place him or her far beyond any legitimate suspicion. And OP's posts here are very clearly are sufficient to survive any rational credibility test.

Some people are here to share and exchange accurate information and sincere perceptions about the cars and the company. Some good. Some bad. Some right and some wrong. Most subject to reasonable disagreement and differing opinions. Those are the legitimate users.

So who are the illegitimate users who should be subject to scrutiny and suspicion? People like the "value analyst" and the others who are here trying to "support" their investment holdings by any means necessary. The fact that he, she, and they think they are capable of doing so by shouting down and denigrating online complaints and criticisms and personally attacking the speaker? Unbelievable incompetence and completely illegitimate -- and positively embarrassing.

I can’t say any better. Thank YOU.

Furthermore, it reflected the mentality in this country which is...What’s in it for me!
If some unknown stock analysts started to talk the stock then, by all means, keep talking since it will make my investment better, right?

Also, by talking down on people who voiced their newby opinion on a somewhat large purchase such as MS or MX, they are actually doing a disservice to Tesla, a company they said they love.

Having said that, one shouldn't be surprised since there exists such personalities anywhere you go these days.

 

[suwaneedad]

Taking delivery on Wednesday.
I have no urgent need for my Model 3, so had already planned to be skeptical while inspecting the car, and refusing to take title to it if there are any flaws in the paint in particular...I do not want anything other than the factory finish when I first take ownership of it. If there are other components that don't meet spec which can be swapped out later via a Due Bill, that's just fine with me and I'll take title. But flaws in the painted body panels are a no-go for me. (Stay tuned.)

 

[Carnook]

Taking delivery on Wednesday.
I have no urgent need for my Model 3, so had already planned to be skeptical while inspecting the car, and refusing to take title to it if there are any flaws in the paint in particular...I do not want anything other than the factory finish when I first take ownership of it. If there are other components that don't meet spec which can be swapped out later via a Due Bill, that's just fine with me and I'll take title. But flaws in the painted body panels are a no-go for me. (Stay tuned.)

Factory finish will never be as good as it could be. While you shouldn’t accept obvious blemishes or anything that can’t be buffed out you may also want to consider taking your car for paint correction and Ceramic Pro. You’ll be amazed at how much better it is than factory finish.

 

[adaptabl]

These are all genuine bumps in the road on the way to 5K cars per week. Kudos to @dan180 for doing what needed to be done. I think most of us would have succumbed to the alluring model 3 and convinced ourselves that it could all be fixed post delivery. Your advice is sound and an excellent reminder to check your emotions until after you've decided that the car meets the $55K standard. Thanks for sharing your story, I hope they get you your new model 3 soon!

Other car manufacturers have this figured out. I recently looked at a Hyundai Elantra for my daughter and the fit and build quality was amazing. They must be pumping these out in the multiple 1000's per day.

 

[Electroman]

Other car manufacturers have this figured out. I recently looked at a Hyundai Elantra for my daughter and the fit and build quality was amazing. They must be pumping these out in the multiple 1000's per day.

..because that is all they have been doing the past 50 years plus, it will be a shame if they can't get this right after producing millions of those. A new production line is very similar to the 20 other lines they have done in the last decade, with a few extra automation thrown in.

In the case of Tesla - right from a) assembling the cells, b) the battery tech that gets a very high range and is highly durable, c) the paradigm shift of software driven model, d) electric drive trains with dual motors working in concert to produce the right driving characteristics, e) a completely new software based infotainment system and <drum roll> f) self-driving through machine learning and AI - all of these to be done at less than $50K sale price.


WOW thats a feat, i challenge those amazing panel-fitters and smooth paint finishers - aka legacy dino auto companies - to accomplish what Tesla did.

You guys are all getting twisted on what can be seen outside visually - panel fitment and paint work - forgetting the fact that close to $45k of the $50K price tag is inside the car that cannot be seen by a layman looking at the paint work.

There is a reason why none of the perfect panel-fitters cannot create a 300+ mile, 4.5s, sub $50K, Level 2 AP car. Because, they are down right incompetent on those technologies - atleast as of 2018.

 

[kmngq]

@dan180 do you remember when you configured and when you got assigned a VIN? Mine is also a 68xx MSM Aero EAP but i suspect not in the same build batch - I configured late January and received VIN late Feb.

he said "manufactured 3/18 according to door sticker".
so probably way after yours.

 

[banned-66611]

Is anyone else a bit worried that the delivery room is very dark and you need to bring your own flashlight?

Sounds like the kind of scam a dodgy used car salesman would try.

 

[Parker]

Natural sunlight will always show blemishes significantly more than indoors--especially if it's a darker color. If you are OCD, like me, you can expect to have to paint correct any brand new or CPO car from any manufacturer. This is as true from Ford to Ferrari.

I have my own random orbital and have done this with all my cars. 99% of scratches can be corrected. Both my Teslas were as bad as any other, but they cleaned up very well paint correction. Frankly, BMW was the worst, but they cleaned up well too.

Griot's new fast correcting cream makes this process much easier than it used to be. I used to pay aprox $700 for paint correction, and just decided to learn how to do it myself. It's actually a fun project once you learn how to do it.

IMHO, I think the primary issue is that most people's emotions are on high alert when receive a car they have been waiting FOREVER for, so any imperfections are enhanced.

 

[scotty2541]

No, they are not, and it's time for people to get real.

These are all the same issues owners of Model S and X have had to deal with and at 50% higher price points. SHAME ON TESLA for not improving QC after 5 years of production. Elon Musk is the one who has instructed production to deliver cars with cosmetic issues in order to drive up delivery numbers, and only pull back vehicles with mechanical defects. This has been documented by Reuters and others.

The problem is the attitude at the top, folks. Don't expect anything to change until competition starts putting the hurt on Tesla.

I'm with you 100%. I do not think they would have had this problem if they hired executives from car companies outside the USA. But it's as though they hired a bunch of flunkies from Detroit, who were responsible for ruining the American auto industry with crappy quality. They went bankrupt back then, where do you think some of those executives went? Just about the time Tesla was ramping up the MS. Now, using those same business practices that destroyed Detroit, they are damaging Tesla too (I'm a Toyota/Lexus and Acura/Honda fan personally - I can't wait for them to jump into this market with better quality).

As for "ValueAnalyst", I would personally find it more likely that his type of posts are from the company itself or agents hired to discredit actual consumers, rather than trolls trying to damage the brand value. Tesla is doing enough to damage their own brand without any help.

The thing that appears to keep them going are blind sycophants who will stand by them no matter what. Like those Apple lovers who camp out to stuff cash into the company coffers buying the next gizmo they don't need. It amazes me the mental gymnastics that some of the fan groups come up with to justify what we see.

-Scotty

 

[comanchepilot]

How does a stress crack in a windshield make it past QC for delivery? It doesn't - because there isn't any - get the cars delivered - get the money - clear the deposit - see what the market will bear.

 

[Zaxxon]

I do not think they would have had this problem if they hired executives from car companies outside the USA.

Like, say, if they hired Audi's A4 production director as their VP of Production? Someone who had been in charge of 380k vehicles/year?

 

[Rupesh047]

Pictures/videos would have been good. What happens to the car that get's refused? Do you reconfigure another one or does that one get reconditioned and sent back to you??

 

[Mr T]

I'm not convinced that a different "experienced" person could have solved the M3 production issues. They are breaking new ground with new processes and new machines. I am impressed with what they have done and hope they keep the production numbers low until they have the line working flawlessly. We are the beta test group and our acceptance of the glitches of our early adopter circumstance keeps me happy. I mostly enjoy helping them with the process and being part of the mission to sustainable transportation.

 

[Bob390]

Thank you for sharing. It's stories like yours that had me make the painful decision to cancel my Model 3 order. I currently have 2 Model S cars and will probably just get another S once my oldest lease comes up in May. I do have another Model 3 order for this Fall. Hopefully they'll get everything fixed in their factory by then!

Hi everyone-

I'm sharing this so others can learn from my experience. My midnight silver EAP aero Model 3, VIN 68XX (manufactured 3/18 according to door sticker) was scheduled for delivery today @ 10 AM at the Fremont Delivery Center. Reading enough reports of car defects, I removed my emotion from the car pickup process and expected that there could be issues. My goal was to document everything and only reject the car in an extreme circumstance.

First issue was almost expected, a panel gap issue. The gap between the passenger side fender where it meets the A pillar was awfully large. The rubber end cap that bridges these two panels on the window was out of alignment because of it. The delivery specialist agreed that it looked out of spec, and would have the service manager take a look.

Next, I noticed a bunch of hairline scratches on the tail lights. Looks like it was from very reckless detailing. Not a dealbreaker either, but annoying.

Next, I got into the car and notice dirt on the plastic piece that covers the bottom edge of the door. Then, I run my fingers along the plastic and notice a very deep set of scratches...almost from someone kicking their shoe in the plastic while working on it. Using a flashlight revealed permanent damage to the plastic.

IMHO, all of these were minor except for the panel gap. I was still OK taking the car home at this point. My delivery specialist had the car driven from the delivery room to the back for the service team to see if they could buff out the blemishes and confirm the panel gap issue/document it.

Twenty minutes later, they confirmed that all of the issues were valid and there was nothing they could do about it now. I said OK, we signed the paperwork, and the car was driven to the front for me to drive home.

I was EXCITED now. I was about to drive my Model 3.

Keep in mind that the delivery room is very very dark. You will miss things, even with a flashlight. When I went outside to put my bag in the trunk, the first thing I noticed was a GIANT set of scratches about 6-8" on the rear bumper. How is this possible? Now, I'm just pissed. This can't be buffed out, and is going to require a repaint.

So my options were: 1) refuse delivery or 2) deal with an unknown repair period, without even knowing if a Tesla service center could repair this (might have to go to a body shop). I chose to refuse delivery. The car is back at the factory and I may end up getting a different VIN depending on what is ready first.

The kicker is that the service manager said something to the effect of "someone tried to remove this scratch already." I got the impression that this was a known defect either at the factory or the delivery center and they attempted delivery with it. Not cool.

Not a great experience, but the moral of the story is: if you care about a $55,000 car looking like a $55,000 car, go to your delivery appointment expecting to reject the car, and then be happy when you don't. Take your time to thoroughly inspect the car, with a flashlight, in both indoor & outdoor lights. There is a big difference in what Tesla can do when they own the car vs. when you take possession.

All of the paperwork has been voided, and now waiting for a follow-up this weekend. On the plus side, I did get a loaner Model S.

Hope this info helps someone!

-Dan

 

[Brettski]

I often wonder how successful Tesla would be at selling ICE cars.

 

[suwaneedad]

Update to a post I made above sometime last week: picked up my 3 yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to see zero paint issues, wonderful panel fit, zero issues with those two enormous pieces of glass. Only one issue at all, and it was frustrating because I had to call it out: the charging door got scratched to hell at some point. So it's on a Due Order to be replaced, so no biggie. But it does indicate either shoddy QA, or a detail/prep process at the SC that misses things that simple/obvious, or a prep employee who beat it up with the charger and didn't own up to it. Whatever, the car was in gloriously good condition. The Atlanta delivery location has really good lighting (lower ceilings than the cavernous places I've seen pics of at Fremont). Rest easy everybody...QA is good.

 

[mattjs33]

I do start to wonder about Elon's desire to produce cars at "machine speed" rather than "human speed". The physics are the physics. When you start moving parts around at accelerated speeds, the inertia to start and stop those parts goes up by the square. It seems to me that it would become increasingly difficult to maintain tolerances. Thus, the robots may have a difficult time in lining up the parts and for that matter producing the parts to specification.

What???

You do realize that robots assemble most other cars in the world? Besides some outliers like Koenigsegg and Morgan, no one hand-assembles cars anymore, not in the true sense.

Tesla is using equipment similar to what everyone else uses. They just don't have similar experience. They are also under pressure to deliver as many cars as they can, due to little things like cash flow needs and earnings calls. It's quite possible inspectors are "not" seeing some of these flaws, in the hopes the customer won't either. If they do after delivery well at least that's a sold car and they'll deal with it later. Humans always default to what's easiest at the moment.

 

[PeterK]

Thank you for sharing. It's stories like yours that had me make the painful decision to cancel my Model 3 order. I currently have 2 Model S cars and will probably just get another S once my oldest lease comes up in May. I do have another Model 3 order for this Fall. Hopefully they'll get everything fixed in their factory by then!

I think a lot of people are overreacting here. The only clear production issue in the OP's post is the single panel gap. The other couple of problems could have happened during transport or even in the delivery center lot. And it sounds like the panel gaps are getting better as production progresses. I'm personally more concerned about how they tried to pass off the rear bumper scratch, but I suppose end-of-quarter pressures, especially THIS critical quarter, can drive bad behavior.

As for canceling the M3 order to buy another S, I periodically read of real problem Model S and X deliveries, even years after they started making them. Tesla has surely applied learnings from Model S and X design and production process to the Model 3 design and production, which lead me to believe that Model 3 quality will stabilize sooner and with less variability.