FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[powertoold]

Kind of a rough first left turn where it was kind of forcing itself in by creeping so far.

That turn was straight up risky (One of the reasons I personally don’t want fsd beta right now. It’s not ready). I don’t think it was looking right at all when it committed. Fsd beta has not been good on diagonal streets, same issue with frenchie’s 6-way intersection with diagonal streets.

I don’t know why Tesla is in such a rush to expand the beta. A bad accident can set back the program.

 

[Terminator857]

The YouTube channel "Dirty Tesla" ... of a Yield sign at a roundabout entrance.

10 minutes into the video. Spoiler: beta software handled it well.

 

[powertoold]

It’s fascinating to go back and watch the original Autonomy Day FSD video and realize how primitive it seems now, especially since Tesla was likely using HD maps at the time:

 

[mhan00]

That turn was straight up risky (One of the reasons I personally don’t want fsd beta right now. It’s not ready). I don’t think it was looking right at all when it committed. Fsd beta has not been good on diagonal streets, same issue with frenchie’s 6-way intersection with diagonal streets.

I don’t know why Tesla is in such a rush to expand the beta. A bad accident can set back the program.

Yeah, I think you’re right. It’s having trouble with intersections that aren’t the standard 4 way cross. Putting in diagonals or extra streets seems to wreaking havoc right now, which is a problem. Hopefully the team is pulling a bunch of those examples and is training the system feverishly on them.

 

[mhan00]

Brandon having fun freaking his mom out. Her constant nervous expression is hilarious.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Oh they're still adding new youtubers and leg humpers to the beta? There's a shock.

Your dissatisfaction with the FSD program and with Elon is well noted. But I have to say, as I've written before, that I find the openness of the FSD development to be quite remarkable. Among the constant accusations of hucksterism, exaggeration and lying, I think it's important to note the FSD beta videos pretty much hang it out there for everyone to see, critics as well as fans.

So what would be better, choosing beta testers who do not post or are not allowed to post, or choosing testers who are encouraged to post and give their opinions, sometimes arguably supportive but quite often negative or disappointed?* The latter is what we have and I'd challenge you to find another example of this kind of openness, in a non-open-source software project - especially one where the failures could have such a sensational impact. If Tesla went with a closed beta program (the usual practice) I very much doubt that the critics would have praised them by saying "well it's a good thing they're not publicizing it too much".

*Yes I know there could be a many clever retorts with a third choice. Just finish it. Give it to everyone. Refund our money. Whatever. I'm specifically commenting on the misplaced criticism of YouTube public videos, revealing the performance of the FSD beta in a very non-curated way.​

 

[Terminator857]

... I find the openness of the FSD development to be quite remarkable. Among the constant accusations of hucksterism, exaggeration and lying, ...

What do you think about the order page in 2019 saying automatic driving in city streets coming by end of year?

.... Just finish it.

Will never be finished. Yes, finished can mean in a releasable state. Although there are plenty that suggest a very high bar for this.

... I'm specifically commenting on the misplaced criticism of YouTube public videos, revealing the performance of the FSD beta in a very non-curated way.

Sure gloss over the major issues and try to misdirect. By the way it is curated. If it wasn't they would allow live streaming.

 

[qdeathstar]

live streaming is more risky while driving than just recording video.

 

[DarkandStormy]

It’s fascinating to go back and watch the original Autonomy Day FSD video and realize how primitive it seems now, especially since Tesla was likely using HD maps at the time:

Fascinating in that it was a lie?

 

[Terminator857]

live streaming is more risky while driving than just recording video.

Should there be laws not allowing conversations in the car or hands free voice calling? How dangerous is live streaming compared to those?

 

[JHCCAZ]

...Sure gloss over the major issues and try to misdirect. ...

A false and argumentative accusation.

No glossing, if you look at my posts you'll have no trouble finding disagreements with FSD hardware (mostly in perception) an software (mostly in planning), some poking fun and also serious discussion of details. Just not a lot of participation in rant-fests or bickering exchanges.

No misdirection. I was directly addressing the sarcastic criticism of additional YouTube-prolific beta testers.

You may be falling into the most common trap of the forum, which is the assumption that every poster must be solidly cheering for or against the Tesla team. I'm excited and interested which is why I spend time here, but successful development and competition demands that one be able to evaluate and criticize the current approach - which I can do. On the other hand, it's neither required nor helpful to be incessantly negative just to prove you're not a captive fan-boy.

By the way it is curated. If it wasn't they would allow live streaming

It is not curated. As I understand it, there is no vetting, permission or approval process prior to upload. I've mentioned this before; the rule of no live-streaming is very sensible based on:

• Legal issues of evidence and fault assignment in case of an accident (including 3rd-party accidents that may be recorded but don't involvebthe FSD car).
• The truism, reinforced constantly in live-streamed and in post-edited livestream uploads, that the video can indeed badly miss or misrepresent precursor events and other important context, and may not in fact be a very good representation of the incident.
• Avoiding the encouragement and associated pressure of a running live-streamed commentary to a live audience. The pressure to keep up interesting chatter can easily run counter to the imperative of prioritizng one's attention to the FSD driving. This is a safety issue for sure, but also a practical beta-testing issue. First priority is safety, second is accurate and complete witnessing and reporting of problems, and third is later offline assembly and upload of the YouTube drive videos (which of course are really a subset of the drives executed by the tester each week).
  • This is related to the issue that I think we all learned when cell phones came along. Most people come to realize that even with a fully hands-free speakerphone installation, its quite different to carry on a conversation with a passenger, vs. with a remote listener who is not with you in the car and who lcannot pick up on cues that hey, we have a bit of a situation developing and it's time to stop talking for a moment. Live-streaming vs. post-editable narrative chatter have a similar distinction, even more so with an online audience.
• Perhaps other good reasons I'm leaving out.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Should there be laws not allowing conversations in the car or hands free voice calling? How dangerous is live streaming compared to those?

Didn't see this until I posted my reply just above, but I addressed this point directly in the bullet points re live-streaming. The short answer is thar live-streaming is indeed more distracting and risky.

 

[mhan00]

Tesla needs to take FSD away from Gali. He’s a huge fan of the company and a huge promoter of the stock, but he’s going to be the first guy in an FSD accident if they let him keep doing what he is. Stop saying “This is dope” and monitor the car. It’s nice to see the car won’t actually hit the pillars, but later on he let the car turn right into the opposite lane and had to dodge past some of those plastic pylons to get to the correct side of the road. His definition of success is also pretty iffy. The car didn’t hit the pillars, but its handling of them was wonky and would be extremely confusing to everyone on the road at best, and I would also assume it’s illegal to change lanes between the pillars but I don’t know for sure.

 

[mhan00]

Bad drive for Kim (you can tell by the title, lol). I think she’s in Rhode Island? A lot of her disengagements I’ve seen so far can be argued that they weren’t really necessary from a safety perspective (for example I think the car was maneuvering to sit behind the parked cars to let the oncoming taxi pass on that very narrow road and being a little slow off the line at a changing green light is more annoying than dangerous) but if she feels uncomfortable she should absolutely be taking over like she has been. The one where the car didn‘t appear to be going back to the right to allow the oncoming car its space was certainly a safety concern. The guy honking at her was more than a little ridiculous, imo. Her car immediately moving forward ten feet to just sit behind the line of stopped cars trying to turn right wasn’t going to change anything.

 

[Tam]

...assume it’s illegal to change lanes between the pillars but I don’t know for sure.

Those pillars are protected by a solid white line on both sides.

In California, my Autopilot/FSD used to be able to cross a solid white for a lane change until 3/23/2018. Shortly after that, I could not get it to cross a solid white line anymore, even now.

It's unclear the CA DMV would allow crossing a solid white line:

"...wait until a single broken white line appears..."

 

[Ptheven]

Your dissatisfaction with the FSD program and with Elon is well noted. But I have to say, as I've written before, that I find the openness of the FSD development to be quite remarkable. Among the constant accusations of hucksterism, exaggeration and lying, I think it's important to note the FSD beta videos pretty much hang it out there for everyone to see, critics as well as fans.

…while making nontrivial amounts of money for the people posting the videos. It's cronyism.

 

[mhan00]

…while making nontrivial amounts of money for the people posting the videos. It's cronyism.

They really aren’t making much. Most don’t have any kind of sponsorship or Patreon, and YouTube pays pennies for each view if there are ads on the vid, and they don’t really get a ton of views. Even the ones with a Patreon page aren’t making much. I’d say they’re likely actually losing money considering some of the cameras and drone tech that some of them are using in their vids.

 

[JHCCAZ]

They really aren’t making much. Most don’t have any kind of sponsorship or Patreon, and YouTube pays pennies for each view if there are ads on the vid, and they don’t really get a ton of views. Even the ones with a Patreon page aren’t making much. I’d say they’re likely actually losing money considering some of the cameras and drone tech that some of them are using in their vids.

Agreed, and the cronyism charge implies a conflict of interest that would inhibit honest criticism. The first and most obvious counter to this is that there have been plenty of complaints from many of the drivers, at least the ones I tend to follow. Maybe less so from some others, but I'm less familiar with those.

The second point is that it's not just a narrative that's subject to spin with no objective proof; we can all watch each situation develop and reach our own conclusions. People can and do, all the time, disagree with the comments expressed by the testers. This is seen in the YouTube comments (that I don't use very much), the TMC analysis and I'm sure also on Twitter and Reddit (an assumption as I have little to no presence on those). I along with others have often expressed my differences with the decision and path planning choices of FSD, or sometimes with the testers when they actually wished the car would do something I think it definitely should not do.

So far I haven't really picked up on any unhealthy or truth-burying tendency of the FSD testers, to try to burnish their relationship with Tesla by soft-pedaling FSD deficiencies. But I can see how the interpretation of behavior will vary widely on the pessimism-to-optimism spectrum based on one's expectations and biases. If you're already disgusted, nothing much will please you - and then you'll be suspicious of any positive spin, open to nefarious explanations of the reviewers' motives.

I think there are a few reviewers who make a good amount from YouTube. But there's no compensation from Tesla as far as I know; their source of income is from popularity and the way the YouTube algorithm works. They have to please their audience, and I don't think that audience is generally looking for fawning praise of Tesla.

 

[mhan00]

Poor drive in San Jose. Struggled a lot with railroad tracks, bike lanes, and would have happily tried to plow through a couple of road closed signs. Driver says there are pretty clear regressions here than on 9.2, but overall he still likes 10 better (for where he normally drives, I guess, because this was ROUGH in San Jose).

 

[Knightshade]

…while making nontrivial amounts of money for the people posting the videos. It's cronyism.

FWIW I personally know 2 people who got FSDBeta. Of the two, one doesn't even HAVE a youtube channel or anything like it-- he is a former professional race car driver (though not a hugely famous one or anything so no fan base, just that I expect whatever safety data Teslas been checking folks for his is very good). The other technically had a youtube channel prior to this but had posted like 3 total videos in 5 years, so again there wasn't really any revenue stream going on there and he also wasn't "internet famous" or anything.

The fact SOME of the public folks in the program are making youtube videos doesn't mean that's the criteria for selection.