FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[powertoold]

I love having it and still expect to help the process by driving carefully and submitting feedback to Tesla through interventions as well as reports on edge cases. But the reality is that this is work and requires constant attention. I always had appreciation for the early beta testers that drove and posted their videos but my respect for their commitment has really gone up after doing this myself.

This is an exciting time and I look forward to the FSD user base continuing to expand.

After watching so many videos, do you think it's easy to anticipate beta's mistakes? So far, I've sorta predicted all the disengagements and interventions lol. I think someone new-ish to FSD beta would be in trouble.

I actually find the beta to be very enjoyable to use (moreso than NoA or AP). It's basically a car robot you can try out anywhere. The experiences you have when it fails or succeeds are memorable.

I don't think FSD drives would ever get "dull" for me, as long as it stays L2. There's a little excitement in my responsibility to keep things in check.

 

[Zoomit]

But the reality is that this is work and requires constant attention.

Totally agree. I now understand why rollout is so slow. I can appreciate how hard a challenge it is, but I hope they can manage to improve it quickly.

 

[n.one.one]

After watching so many videos, do you think it's easy to anticipate beta's mistakes? ............................................................

I thought that having watched many videos would help, and it did to some extent. I'm sure that after a few more days this will become 2nd nature and as you say I'll "anticipate beta's mistakes".

 

[powertoold]

I thought that having watched many videos would help, and it did to some extent. I'm sure that after a few more days this will become 2nd nature and as you say I'll "anticipate beta's mistakes".

I don't know if this is my bias or attachment to FSD beta, but I really love the experience of testing out this new and uncertain technology. It spices up my life. I can imagine why the AP engineers are working so hard. They literally get to enable a mini-adventure in their own cars as a result of their work. It's very different from the other developers where the engineers would have to go through some process to rent out a Waymo or Cruise car in order to play with it. And even if they do play with it, it's probably in a set scenario or limited time test.

 

[nvx1977]

I don't know if this is my bias or attachment to FSD beta, but I really love the experience of testing out this new and uncertain technology. It spices up my life. I can imagine why the AP engineers are working so hard. They literally get to enable a mini-adventure in their own cars as a result of their work. It's very different from the other developers where the engineers would have to go through some process to rent out a Waymo or Cruise car in order to play with it. And even if they do play with it, it's probably in a set scenario or limited time test.

I'm in the same boat. I never thought I would get a chance to be part of an early access test program. I have in the past contacted Tesla to ask them for the privilege and they said no. I'm long $TSLA since 2016 when I put my Model 3 reservation down, and I can't believe I'm part of helping this company do incredible things.

I realize I sound like a total fanboy. Maybe I am. But I'm also an optimizer and a system builder, and imperfect systems like current FSD beta draw me in.

 

[ACPark]

Question for anyone with FSD Beta with a car which has radar:

Once you have enrolled and accepted and have used the vison-only FSD Beta. I understand you can opt not to use the FSD city-streets Beta functionality by creating another profile in the same vehicle where you do not opted into FSD Beta.

Question is: does the non-city-streets (FSD Beta) opted in profile still use the radar?

 

[gearchruncher]

There is a stop sign without a merge area to get on this interstate highway (I-278 Brooklyn-Queens Expressway)

The road leading up to that stop sign is not a limited access highway. It's a city street. You would not have AP on as you come up to that stop sign.

A set of traffic lights over Interstate 195 eastbound stop traffic for pedestrians (toll takers and maintenance personnel)

For pedestrians you say? Well, not supposed to be using it there:

That is still considered a limited access road according to California, as that part is still part of SR35:

And that area you showed clearly violates the "when pedestrians or bicycles may be present" rule, even if it is legally a controlled access highway.

In the VA Hampton Roads area both bridge tunnels have traffic lights in the direction of travel.

You may have found one of the only cases, although the reason for that stop is a pretty complex area right after it with vehicles and people pulling in/out and crossing. But I'm sure it's for the 10 cases like this in the USA that Tesla put in stop light control, right?

 

[TIppy]

The road leading up to that stop sign is not a limited access highway. It's a city street. You would not have AP on as you come up to that stop sign.

Navigate on Autopilot seems to consider on and off ramps a part of the highway. If Tesla's ok with it...

 

[gearchruncher]

I actually find the beta to be very enjoyable to use (moreso than NoA or AP). It's basically a car robot you can try out anywhere. The experiences you have when it fails or succeeds are memorable.

I don't think FSD drives would ever get "dull" for me, as long as it stays L2. There's a little excitement in my responsibility to keep things in check.

I don't know if this is my bias or attachment to FSD beta, but I really love the experience of testing out this new and uncertain technology. It spices up my life. I can imagine why the AP engineers are working so hard. They literally get to enable a mini-adventure in their own cars as a result of their work. It's very different from the other developers where the engineers would have to go through some process to rent out a Waymo or Cruise car in order to play with it. And even if they do play with it, it's probably in a set scenario or limited time test.

Yep, exactly the way I would describe a "game changing" technology that is useful beyond entertainment value. Especially where you knock actual L4 systems as being boring.

 

[gearchruncher]

Navigate on Autopilot seems to consider on and off ramps a part of the highway. If Tesla's ok with it...

The whole point here is that Tesla's software functionality and their manual are in opposition with one another. So which one is a safety conscious user of the system to obey, and why is Tesla being so sloppy with their manuals on their most controversial, PR sensitive technology?

 

[ahoen117]

Yep, exactly the way I would describe a "game changing" technology that is useful beyond entertainment value. Especially where you knock actual L4 systems as being boring.

Do you just hate having fun or.....?
I don't see what's wrong with it being entertaining to me while at the same time doing what it's supposed to.

My car drove me to work this morning and didn't hit anything or anyone. 2 days ago it couldn't do that. I'd call that game changing.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The whole point here is that Tesla's software functionality and their manual are in opposition with one another. So which one is a safety conscious user of the system to obey, and why is Tesla being so sloppy with their manuals on their most controversial, PR sensitive technology?

AP isn't really all that useable on surface streets, and the existence of Traffic light response doesn't justify the use of AP on surface streets.

Traffic Light response will work just fine with TACC so if someone wants to use traffic light response they can simply use that. For awhile I was doing just, but traffic light response was contributing to phantom braking so I ended up turning it off.

A safety conscious person would never be testing early access stuff so there really isn't any opposition with it. A truly safety conscious person would own a Volvo anyways. Sure people can compare crash tests results, but in the real world people find creative ways to die in a Tesla.

 

[gearchruncher]

A safety conscious person would never be testing early access stuff so there really isn't any opposition with it.

This discussion was about AP that is in all Teslas today, which I don't think most people would consider early access. It tells you not to use it on surface streets, yet huge numbers of people do, and Tesla could easily block that in SW. It shows that Tesla doesn't actually take their manuals seriously at all, which is not the behavior of a company that puts safety first in front of other business needs.

It is very interesting that you believe no safety conscious person would use FSD beta, yet the only people Tesla was willing to give it to are those they judged most safety conscious.

 

[gearchruncher]

Do you just hate having fun or.....?
I don't see what's wrong with it being entertaining to me while at the same time doing what it's supposed to.

My car drove me to work this morning and didn't hit anything or anyone. 2 days ago it couldn't do that. I'd call that game changing.

I very much like having fun with cars. But all the Tesla autonomy supporters breathlessly talk about how Tesla's L2 autonomy is super useful, or "Game changing." When asked how this exact release is useful beyond entertainment, there's just crickets. Because the car DID NOT drive you to work. It literally would have stopped if you had closed your eyes. You must be present. You must be attentive. You are responsible for accidents or tickets. It WILL kill you if you ignore these rules.

And please, do not tell anyone that your car drove itself. We're all in agreement that this is L2, and acting like a Tesla is autonomous is disingenuous, and dangerous, right? Everyone that crashes a Tesla thinking it could handle some situation by itself was an idiot for not understanding that.

Tell me, how has the game changed? Game changing is when my car can go park itself. When it can take my kids to school without me in it. When it can earn revenue by itself. But requiring you to be right in the same seat you always were, paying more attention than before? That's game changing? What game are we playing? I assumed we were playing the "environmentally conscious, affordable, safer than humans transportation with nobody in the driver's seat" game.

I get that it is very fun. If it was available to me, I'd use it all the time because it would be fun. But I would never tell someone that my car could drive itself, and the fact that it's taken 5 years to get to this point since Tesla showed us a video of a car doing even more than FSD currently can tells me that it's highly unlikely that a current Tesla will move from "entertaining" to "Game changing useful" in the next 5 years.

And don't forget the psychology trick Tesla has played on you- which is that you're in the "special" group that got the beta. They've created a have vs have not situation, which creates some very interesting defense mechanisms for the haves when they are questioned in any way. It's politics 101.

If Tesla gave the current FSD beta to every single Tesla owner, without manuals or communication like they did with you, would you feel comfortable driving or walking next to a Tesla on the road? If not, how has the game changed if it's only safe for 1,000 special people to use it, leaving 269,999,000 American drivers and 1,499,000 Teslas without it?

 

[Terminator857]

...
My car drove me to work this morning and didn't hit anything or anyone. 2 days ago it couldn't do that. I'd call that game changing.

I'll wait for the "game changing" moniker until I get it. Love what this means for the future, a driverless future. Itty bitty steps are great!

 

[ahoen117]

I very much like having fun with cars. But all the Tesla autonomy supporters breathlessly talk about how Tesla's L2 autonomy is super useful, or "Game changing." When asked how this exact release is useful beyond entertainment, there's just crickets. Because the car DID NOT drive you to work. It literally would have stopped if you had closed your eyes. You must be present. You must be attentive. You are responsible for accidents or tickets. It WILL kill you if you ignore these rules.

And please, do not tell anyone that your car drove itself. We're all in agreement that this is L2, and acting like a Tesla is autonomous is disingenuous, and dangerous, right? Everyone that crashes a Tesla thinking it could handle some situation by itself was an idiot for not understanding that.

To be clear, I'm supervising the vehicles actions at all times and am ready to take over if needed. But if there is a trip where if I don't have to disengage or help it in any way with the accelerator, the car is driving itself.

Tell me, how has the game changed? Game changing is when my car can go park itself. When it can take my kids to school without me in it. When it can earn revenue by itself. But requiring you to be right in the same seat you always were, paying more attention than before? That's game changing? What game are we playing? I assumed we were playing the "environmentally conscious, affordable, safer than humans transportation with nobody in the driver's seat" game.

I'm not going to entirely disagree with this. What you've stated here is the end goal. That doesn't mean each building block along the way to the goal can be game changing. Also, this is just my opinion, but I think Autosteer on city streets is the most important part of "the stack."

I get that it is very fun. If it was available to me, I'd use it all the time because it would be fun. But I would never tell someone that my car could drive itself, and the fact that it's taken 5 years to get to this point since Tesla showed us a video of a car doing even more than FSD currently can tells me that it's highly unlikely that a current Tesla will move from "entertaining" to "Game changing useful" in the next 5 years.

And don't forget the psychology trick Tesla has played on you- which is that you're in the "special" group that got the beta. They've created a have vs have not situation, which creates some very interesting defense mechanisms for the haves when they are questioned in any way. It's politics 101.

If Tesla gave the current FSD beta to every single Tesla owner, without manuals or communication like they did with you, would you feel comfortable driving or walking next to a Tesla on the road? If not, how has the game changed if it's only safe for 1,000 special people to use it, leaving 269,999,000 American drivers and 1,499,000 Teslas without it?

My opinion is that yes, it should be released to those who have purchased or subscribed. It honestly sucks that Tesla has to worry about a PR nightmare because no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore.

 

[gearchruncher]

It honestly sucks that Tesla has to worry about a PR nightmare because no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore.

That's a double edged sword also though. Tesla doesn't want to take any responsibility for their actions or products either. They want to just release "Full Self Driving Capability" while also taking absolutely no responsibility for what happens when that fails.

The fact that Tesla absolutely refuses any kind of responsibility tells you how far we are away from L3 or L4, which distinctly requires Tesla to take all responsibility.

You can also get a PR nightmare even if no accident ever occurs- say you advertise a car as capable of full self driving, you release full self driving, and what people get is something that tries to crash the car every 7 miles unless the driver takes rapid action. That doesn't look great even if nobody gets hurt. We don't know that Tesla isn't limiting roll out because they are worried about a greater population experiencing the current state of development vs the story that has been communicated for years.

But if there is a trip where if I don't have to disengage or help it in any way with the accelerator, the car is driving itself.

So you're saying that if I put my car in Neutral, let it roll out of the driveway, and it doesn't hit anything before it comes to a stop, it drove itself?

You're literally saying that "if the car manages to not hit anything, it drove itself" while also admitting you can't rely on that in any way, and it probably doesn't even happen 50% of the trips you take. This "Self driving" car is actively monitoring that a human is there and aware, which means the car is actively relying on the human as part of the system. That's not self driving. Just because your attention didn't lead to needing a specific overtake action on a specific drive doesn't mean the car would have driven without you there. The car literally will refuse to self drive without you there (as it should).

It does look like fun to play with though, and it is a baby step towards L4 actual self driving. It's just not proof that Tesla is anywhere near it, nor would I guess most people would find it worth $10K in the current state.

 

[StealthLSU]

That's a double edged sword also though. Tesla doesn't want to take any responsibility for their actions or products either. They want to just release "Full Self Driving Capability" while also taking absolutely no responsibility for what happens when that fails.

The fact that Tesla absolutely refuses any kind of responsibility tells you how far we are away from L3 or L4, which distinctly requires Tesla to take all responsibility.

So this brings up a very interesting point to me. As drivers of a car, we all are required to have insurance in case of an accident. This could range from like maybe $800 - $3000 a year (no actual clue the full range so just throwing out numbers). If one day, a tesla could really do L4 or even L5, who would the holder of the insurance be? If tesla has to take responsibility, then they would need insurance on every car and would have to pass those costs to the price of the car. On the other hand, if the owner of the vehicle still has to have insurance, it may make sense that the driver would have the responsibility since they have insurance to pay for it.

 

[SO16]

So this brings up a very interesting point to me. As drivers of a car, we all are required to have insurance in case of an accident. This could range from like maybe $800 - $3000 a year (no actual clue the full range so just throwing out numbers). If one day, a tesla could really do L4 or even L5, who would the holder of the insurance be? If tesla has to take responsibility, then they would need insurance on every car and would have to pass those costs to the price of the car. On the other hand, if the owner of the vehicle still has to have insurance, it may make sense that the driver would have the responsibility since they have insurance to pay for it.

Tesla has said in the past that they would be responsible for the accident for robotaxi.

 

[ahoen117]

So you're saying that if I put my car in Neutral, let it roll out of the driveway, and it doesn't hit anything before it comes to a stop, it drove itself?

I guess it depends on if the rolling car broke any traffic laws

Slightly more seriously, the software is actively controlling the speed and direction of the vehicle.
Until you take control of the steering, throttle/brake, or both. The car is by definition driving.

You're literally saying that "if the car manages to not hit anything, it drove itself" while also admitting you can't rely on that in any way, and it probably doesn't even happen 50% of the trips you take. This "Self driving" car is actively monitoring that a human is there and aware, which means the car is actively relying on the human as part of the system. That's not self driving. Just because your attention didn't lead to needing a specific overtake action on a specific drive doesn't mean the car would have driven without you there. The car literally will refuse to self drive without you there (as it should).

I won't lie, yesterday I had tons of disengagements. I don't think I had a 2 disengagement drive let alone a zero. Mainly from me being overcautious which in no way is a bad thing.

It does look like fun to play with though, and it is a baby step towards L4 actual self driving. It's just not proof that Tesla is anywhere near it, nor would I guess most people would find it worth $10K in the current state.

This is one of those glass half full/empty things. Yeah its not close to L4/5 but it's leaps and bounds better that what was available before. I thought it was worth 10K. I wanted to experience its development over time. But most people aren't thinking about it that way and that seems to show in the FSD take rate graph that has popped up on the forums a few times.