Sorry, yes, taking curves at speed, I'd edit the post, but this forum doesn't let us. However, show me a video at slow speed of AP2 working on an exit ramp curves, doesn't exit because the HW can't do it yet. Also a lot of the youtube videos are AP1 and not AP2.
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FSD may require a hardware upgrade...
- Thread starter boonedocks
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Sorry, yes, taking curves at speed, I'd edit the post, but this forum doesn't let us. However, show me a video at slow speed of AP2 working on an exit ramp curves, doesn't exit because the HW can't do it yet. Also a lot of the youtube videos are AP1 and not AP2.
d21mike
Active Member
I agree but I was hoping they might at some point start rolling out FSD Features and this might be an early one.
FWIW, AP1 is *a lot more* aggressive about simply not offering AP as an option when it's not going to work out well. For example, I have a road leading to work that looks almost exactly like that infamous "fail road". AP1 literally shows that whole drive as blank on the screen. Zero lane lines, zero parked cars. AP2 shows dancing lane lines (sometimes the far left, sometimes the far right), blinking stationary cars that it momentarily recognizes.... For fun, sometimes I activate it, and sure enough, AP2 either pulls hard towards one lane line or the other, or goes into "blue car following" mode on a street-parked car and slams on the brakes while trying to steer towards a car....
Some of the crazy AP2 behavior is simply because, in my opinion, AP2 lacks the same heuristics as AP1 that recognize a road is not good for Autosteer usage and locks you out altogether.
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
I wonder how long this thread will be active ("FSD may require a hardware upgrade"). All new cars produced today actually have hardware upgrades: A new AP2.5ECU, new radar unit, new power steering ECU, new wiring, new e-fuse box, possibly new side repeater cameras and possibly a new MCU.
Hopefully "FSD" will be proven in some form or another on 2.0 hardware before the rumored 3.0 and 4.0 cars roll out of Fremont...
Hopefully "FSD" will be proven in some form or another on 2.0 hardware before the rumored 3.0 and 4.0 cars roll out of Fremont...
I started the thread and IF I could and it allowed I would change it to "FSD REQUIRED a Hardware Upgrade"
d21mike
Active Member
I understand the AP1 vs AP2 but some of the Youtube videos indicate what AP and release level which really helps. I was mainly talking about curves on the open road. I have seen some where they seem to be lucky in it working for an off ramp curve. But on the open road and the curves are not that big they seem to work well. I was driving my daughters Honda Pilot which has a similar feature and it could not hold much of any open road curve.
Wow...that's going to be some retrofit bill! Tesla can't afford that, so AP2 owners are going to get their $3k handed back to them...and probably a coupon for $ off a new car with the 4.0 lidar hardware.
Not to be critical, but then we'd be really wrong as that would imply we have FSD somewhere working, a better choice might be "HW2.0 FSD will require a hardware upgrade to function"
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Yes a new part number, but with some weird references to Korea. I have no clue what the revision entails technically. That's why I wrote "possibly" a camera upgrade. Doesn't have to be an upgrade at all, just some adjustments for legal reasons (that I have absolutely no clue about)
*rotf* How much do you want to bet that Elon will step down as CEO before he has to do the cross-country FSD demo? His stock options are fully vested, I believe, and Model 3 will be shipping to non-employee customers by October. Seems like a reasonable time to exit and focus on SpaceX and his other endeavors full time... Just saying! lol
Attention Elektrek: This is not news, I'm speculating. Please stop following my every word!
Not to be critical, but then we'd be really wrong as that would imply we have FSD somewhere working, a better choice might be "HW2.0 FSD will require a hardware upgrade to function"
I was being "catty" Agree 100% with you on that
the real answer is - some cars on AP2 can take curvy roads and some cars on AP2 try to kill drivers. your mileage will vary
. i am however betting that my car will be of the type that can take curvy roads without killing my family. Disclaimer, EAP operation is pending personal validation upon car's delivery.the real answer is - some cars on AP2 can take curvy roads and some cars on AP2 try to kill drivers. your mileage will vary
FWIW, after a few days' worth of experience with AP2 (same goes for AP1), you quickly learn the situations where it's likely to behave well and the situations where it's likely to do something crazy, and know intuitively when to use the feature.
When you're trying to make a youtube video or demo the system to a friend, though, of course you are more likely to do so on a more interesting street. I just came back from an 800 mile road trip and I tracked the longest time without intervention on my AP2 car was around 180 miles but that's in the middle of I-5, a simple 2-lane freeway with minimal curves. And the only reason I intervened was to get off the highway. But that would be a very boring 2 hour Youtube video and nobody would watch it….
And that's kind of the problem with a lot of the Youtube videos. Even Byshop in Norway that has been making all of the 2017.32 videos on challenging highways — despite him actually having a decent level of success, when I see those conditions with plenty of tunnels, curves, lane merges, and bikers/rollerskaters, honestly my gut reaction would be that I'd steer that section myself, or use TACC + manual steering.
Or at least has some sort of hardware difference, whether it's something that Tesla admits is a problem or not.
I'm just saying what I'm observing from my cars, across a wide range of driving scenarios across 10k miles with AP2 and 18k miles with AP1. Your observations have obviously been different, and sometimes it makes me wonder if there are hardware or configuration differences that explain it (e.g. camera pitch, alignment issues, camera differences between Dec and March build dates, etc)
I understand. And, fwiw, I am not being passive about trying to figure out whether there is something wrong with my car.
I think I bristle a bit when owners generalize to others from their own experiences. We really have no idea what any other owner will experience with EAP. The reports are all over the board. We can share our experiences without telling others that they'll have the same sort.
No worries — I really wish you the best of luck in figuring out if there's something wrong with your car. Don't give up — ask techs to come on test drives with you, ask for a loaner / fleet AP2 car to compare with, etc etc etc. FWIW I worked in corporate engineering and I have handled a few customer escalation cases before, and persistence does pay off.
And to your second point, I could be better about being clearer about it, but I can only speak from the experience of the 2 cars I have had. I'm obviously not a spokesperson for the company and don't mean to invalidate your observations. I believe you are seeing what you're seeing, and I'm not sharing my experiences to marginalize yours!
I think the part we are missing is environment, the roads are completely different across the country and countries, and someone in CA will have a widely different experience then someone in VA I suspect. The roads / interchanges are all different and the weather, sun etc, all different angles and all effect how AP1, AP2 performs.
Customer: I think I may need a loaner or one of you to ride along in my car...my AP2 autopilot doesn't work.
Tech: No sh*t.
Good luck with that. Essentially you must be right about variations in the hardware causing different performance. When the initial rollout of AP2 required some customers to return to the dealer to align the one camera that the system was starting to use, it was obvious they had very little grasp of the hardware they were throwing into the car.
In production, software like this would normally be checked for operation in the build line, on-vehicle. When you don't even have the software developed yet, that's impossible.
Maybe that's why the squares at the 'old' automakers with something to lose in a subsequent liability suit plan to VALIDATE their products.
#misruption
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