Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Unless all 10B is due today it's really not informative at all about the state of the company.
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FSD on city streets coming later this year with reliability far in excess of human drivers!
- Thread starter Daniel in SD
- Start date
Unless all 10B is due today it's really not informative at all about the state of the company.
For sure, i'm not trying to sell a story or anything like that - just pointing out that (somewhat obviously) they are operating the company at the limit and really maximizing what they can do with capital. They definitely are mindful of their cashflow and this move is certain to increase orders.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Yup, at least through June 30 the US reservation holders who kept waiting have no more excuses....and then after that the ones out of the US who were waiting for SR won't either... so I expect demand at least through the rest of the year to be a non-issue- they'll sell cars as fast as they can build em.
golfpilot
Member
When I bought my car FSD WAS for the nonsupervision features.
I’m a little upset people are buying the exact same car for 3k less AND with 3k dollars less in added features (that were a part of the package I bought) .
To add, they were actively telling people to buy their car before the tax credit runs out. Not disclosing they were going to take that money back when you resale the car by lowering the price of the car.
Everyone with EAP should get the new “version” full-self driving. And the original full-self driving should be the full-automomy version as originally advertised.
Decreasing features and lowering the price feels like Tesla just took 6k out of my pocket. That’s not cool.
I hope Elon realizes it and fixes it.
Full autonomy is what the original FSD was. “Get in the car and tell it where to go”
Stop lights and full participation summon is EAP
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
They also get less of a tax credit.
Why should they get features they never bought?
Nope, and never was.
golfpilot
Member
Full self driving was advertised as fully autonomous
You are wrong.
Tesla's Cars Now Drive Themselves, Kinda
He said AP1 does not include full autonomy.
Also goes on saying it reads lights now (then) but doesn’t react, but will in future software updates.
That’s AP1!! Not a full- autonomy feature.
Full-self driving, as previously advertised, is full-autonomy.
The new features were stated as basic autopilot functionality.
Either way, they traded a couple thousand dollars of our resale value and gave it to new customers. That’s a sour skittle to swallow
Eno Deb
Active Member
The full AP+FSD package now costs $3000+5000 (or $4000+7000 after delivery). Before yesterday's change it was $5000+3000 (or $6000+$5000). So the total price for the full package has not changed. Existing EAP owners who can now buy FSD for $3000 are getting a reduced after-delivery price.
There is no new "full-autonomy" version. All FSD owners will get the unsupervised version when (and if) it is made available. That will take years though.
Sadly, it does not mean what your title says.
Parsing Tesla Newspeak correctly, the "current features" in the first sentence =/= "these features" in the second.
The latter can only refer to future FSD features worthy of L3, i.e. after the billions of miles of L2 validation + regulatory approval are acquired.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Right. But EAP isn't that- so why would EAP buyers get something they didn't buy?
No, I'm really not.
The article you linked to is mixing AP and FSD terms pretty loosely.
I'm talking about the actual features specific to EAP from Teslas website when the feature was sold.
No mention of stoplights or stop signs- now, or ever, as being supported.
Quite the contrary- the manual explicitly states it's only intended for use on divided highways that lack those things.
IMO stop sign and ref light recognition is a major safety thing. Leaving full self driving aside... it would be really bad if they left that out of scope for all cars.
FSD is too expensive IMO. You are going to have millions of car on the road... mostly cheaper $35-$40k cars. You think those guys will pay $5-$7k for FSD? I doubt it.
Indeed one of the major reason Tesla slashed the price of auto steer is that they realized that most buyers were not going to purchase autopilot.
They just should have let solar city go bankrupt. That bailout cost $8 billion and was a complete waste of money.. anyway it’s done... Im glad they managed to deploy the model 3 despite that
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
...what?
I mean, having a professional driver drive the car for you is "safer" too but they're not gonna include one of those free either.
EAP is explicitly not intended for use in places where stop signs and stop lights exist... it's only intended for divided highways without things like intersections.
So thinking that handling those things in EAP should be included in the feature is nonsensical.
Then don't buy it.
Uh, except most buyers did buy it... roughly 70-80% of them.
Tesla didn't "slash" autosteer- they removed a bunch of features from EAP and moved them to FSD, then repackaged the 2 oldest/most basic EAP features (TACC and autosteer) as a cheaper offering.
If you want 3 out of the 5 features in EAP anymore it'll cost you more with that move.
Tesla's strategy has now obviously switched to getting the maximum number of customers to buy into FSD going forward, thus reducing the software support burden when EAP for HW2.x is very soon declared feature-complete then abandoned to focus all efforts on HW3 + FSD development, as getting that feature-complete even by June 2020 will be a herculean task.
L3 (without nags) should I imagine be approved ~Jan 2023 followed by L4 ~Jan 2025 (if at all possible with current sensor suite), which would be the minimum required to realise the Tesla Network robotaxi vision.
L3 (without nags) should I imagine be approved ~Jan 2023 followed by L4 ~Jan 2025 (if at all possible with current sensor suite), which would be the minimum required to realise the Tesla Network robotaxi vision.
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Everything about the Feb 28th announcement looks to me like a cash raise. They took in a bunch of $2500 order deposits and are now adding incentives to get people to fork over another 2k for FSD retrofits. This will probably help with their cash on hand while they are managing tons of inventory in the sales channels overseas. If Tesla had raised capital through selling stock we'd probably witness a little less drama, but alas they have not.
GM and Chrysler went bankrupt and still honored their warranties. I believe Tesla would be a viable company without all their debt.
Except that "automatic driving on city streets" isn't a current feature. It says the activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers.
GM and Chrysler were bailed out in the form of government financing to the combined tune of 84 billion dollars to help them smoothly sale through bankruptcy. I don't expect Tesla would get any government support so it may not be so smooth for them.
Source: Effects of the 2008–10 automotive industry crisis on the United States - Wikipedia
Except that "automatic driving on city streets" isn't a current feature. It says the activation and use of these features are dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers.
It's clear what they mean is that they expect to enable those features later this year but with the requirement that the driver is paying attention with hands on the wheel at all times enforced by nag. Then only once they have improved the reliability and are able to show the data to regulators to prove that it is safer than a human will it have a chance of being approved for use without hands on the wheel at all times.
This is atleast for once a realistic strategy for Tesla. I don't expect we'll see hands free city driving for a few more years at the earliest.
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