FSD refund? Anyone taken tesla to the dispute tribunal over this?

[RobDickinson]

So I bought this in 2020 way back before any talk of a subscription model

And now in CONUSA they have a $99 subscription.

Which makes the purchase of FSD outright completely pointless (8-10 years payback)

Given that they've not yet delivered the product at all I think this is probably a good case for a refund?

Have asked tesla for a refund already sales have declined it (as expected) and I've emailed customer support now on their advice.

Will start gathering some evidence on Elons claims and what we have received so far (aka nothing).

 

[Audietron]

So I bought this in 2020 way back before any talk of a subscription model

And now in CONUSA they have a $99 subscription.

Which makes the purchase of FSD outright completely pointless (8-10 years payback)

Given that they've not yet delivered the product at all I think this is probably a good case for a refund?

Have asked tesla for a refund already sales have declined it (as expected) and I've emailed customer support now on their advice.

Will start gathering some evidence on Elons claims and what we have received so far (aka nothing).

Totally support and happy to join... I use FSD at almost all the time, but rarely use navigate on autopilot as it's very unreliable at most times... very strange but good compromise...

 

[RobDickinson]

You use FSD? We dont have FSD?

 

[Crispysmooth]

Need to break this down into 2 parts.

Pricing Model
Companies change their pricing models all the time. Just because they have made something cheaper or now provide a subscription model does not give you recourse for a refund.

Product Delivery
In 2020 you purchased a BETA product of which Tesla did not directly provide you with any guarantees nor assurances as to when the full product would be delivered to you.

You can pull all the tweets of what Elon publicly says on twitter however unless he tagged you and said @Rob I will deliver you FSD non BETA on your vehicle by X date you are going to by SOL.

 

[Audietron]

You use FSD? We dont have FSD?

whatever they are selling as FSD in NZ market.... used FSD as it's official word.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD

I'll start with a really quick summary. I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and...

teslamotorsclub.com

English law is essentially the same as NZ law. I don't know what you were promised but it sounds very similar to the UK experience so I reckon go for gold in Small Claims Court. The filing fee is very little here.

 

[Audietron]

Need to break this down into 2 parts.

Pricing Model
Companies change their pricing models all the time. Just because they have made something cheaper or now provide a subscription model does not give you recourse for a refund.

Product Delivery
In 2020 you purchased a BETA product of which Tesla did not directly provide you with any guarantees nor assurances as to when the full product would be delivered to you.

You can pull all the tweets of what Elon publicly says on twitter however unless he tagged you and said @Rob I will deliver you FSD non BETA on your vehicle by X date you are going to by SOL.

some valid points...
however following is what they are selling right now....

1. Navigate on Autopilot - wouldn't at most times, would change lanes at wrong time, would drive at wrong speeds
2. Auto lane change - wouldn't change lane without receiving confirmation from driver, this is not auto
3. Auto park - usually does 5-10 point parking, mostly gets stuck and creates traffic jam in parking areas.. only reliable if got endless time and noone in parking
4. Summon - only works if there is plenty space around, regularly fails in crazy tight spots in AT car parks.
5. Smart Summon - wouldn't work in most areas... if calling in mall or similar public parking lot (which is the condition where it promise to work) it will always get stuck at random location and take forever...
6. Traffic light and Stop sign control - always confuse between turn sign and go sign... even if sign is green and traffic in front passing the signal, it would ask for endless confirmation on many roads around Auckland.

so there is ground, however I also agree that if they can get away for wrongly calling it Full Self Driving, and having BETA for 5+ years - I doubt they would entertain any claims.

 

[RobDickinson]

My experience taking Tesla to court about FSD

I'll start with a really quick summary. I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and...

teslamotorsclub.com

English law is essentially the same as NZ law. I don't know what you were promised but it sounds very similar to the UK experience so I reckon go for gold in Small Claims Court. The filing fee is very little here.

Thanks for that, I think our Dispute tribunal is pretty fair and consumer focused, selling and not delivering a product at all for 4 years would be heard I suspect.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

I think Small Claims has a high enough ceiling for you. Don't need any lawyer for SC...

 

[RobDickinson]

some valid points...
however following is what they are selling right now....

View attachment 1039230

1. Navigate on Autopilot - wouldn't at most times, would change lanes at wrong time, would drive at wrong speeds
2. Auto lane change - wouldn't change lane without receiving confirmation from driver, this is not auto
3. Auto park - usually does 5-10 point parking, mostly gets stuck and creates traffic jam in parking areas.. only reliable if got endless time and noone in parking
4. Summon - only works if there is plenty space around, regularly fails in crazy tight spots in AT car parks.
5. Smart Summon - wouldn't work in most areas... if calling in mall or similar public parking lot (which is the condition where it promise to work) it will always get stuck at random location and take forever...
6. Traffic light and Stop sign control - always confuse between turn sign and go sign... even if sign is green and traffic in front passing the signal, it would ask for endless confirmation on many roads around Auckland.

so there is ground, however I also agree that if they can get away for wrongly calling it Full Self Driving, and having BETA for 5+ years - I doubt they would entertain any claims.

You are right, none of the features I did get (which I didnt really want anyhow) work well enough to use them regularly

 

[Matt_NZ]

Did you pay for it when it was $9600 or after it jumped up to $11,400? That changes the payback period from 5 years 6 months to 4 years 9 months(ish). FSD transfer periods seem to be more common now to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a permanent option.

I suspect if you do manage to get the refund, they'll likely put you on a blacklist for future orders. So, depends if you'd ever want to get another Tesla again

 

[RobDickinson]

I paid $9600.

They won't blacklist me but I'm also not likely to buy a new tesla either

For now I'm assuming the monthly price would be $99nzd as it's $99usd or $99cnd (so about $71usd)

 

[Matt_NZ]

It’s likely to have another large price increase when FSD Supervised does eventually launch here. It’s significantly cheaper than the US price at the moment

 

[RobDickinson]

I half suspect they'll be including it free by the time it's out here

 

[Matt_NZ]

I suspect we'll end up getting it before Europe...especially since they employed two testers in Auckland and Christchurch last year (assuming they weren't let go with the latest redundancies )

 

[RobDickinson]

Yeah there's no real near term path for fsd in Europe they are not even allowed to do a lane change.

Those fsd testers were 3 month gigs but could have been extended.

I'll admit v12 looks promising but making a decision today I'd be waiting to subscribe, I feel seriously played

 

[Matt_NZ]

Yeah, that's why I went with EAP, although that wasn't an option until late 2020. All the same features as the FSD pre-order and you get the FSD upgrade in the future for the price minus what was paid for EAP.

 

[Lozza12]

I paid $9600.

They won't blacklist me but I'm also not likely to buy a new tesla either

For now I'm assuming the monthly price would be $99nzd as it's $99usd or $99cnd (so about $71usd)

What car would you replace your Model 3 with Rob? You’ve always been a staunch supporter on Stuff etc. I have the new Highland AWD and it’s very good. Other options are still weak IMO - Ioniq5 is fat & dull, Ioniq6 is butt ugly, i4 is crazy expensive, BYD Seal seems to have mixed reviews…

 

[Audietron]

well latest update messed up the car and FSD.... on Mokoia road random time speed is shown between 30 to 80 when actual is 50... random places car will simply stop (phantom breaking)... randomly it will try to change lane and at 70% suddenly pull back in original lane with no one around...

strongest case and right time to get refund...

getting refund for FSD doesn't mean not driving Tesla anymore...

 

[RobDickinson]

What car would you replace your Model 3 with Rob? You’ve always been a staunch supporter on Stuff etc. I have the new Highland AWD and it’s very good. Other options are still weak IMO - Ioniq5 is fat & dull, Ioniq6 is butt ugly, i4 is crazy expensive, BYD Seal seems to have mixed reviews…

oh I dont know, not looking to get rid right away anyhow.

EX30 cross country sounded interesting but looking at it in detail its garbage