FSD Upgrade Email

[Skunis]

@Skunis, if you got the car in April, you don't have EAP.
That was only available in late 2018 for $5k over base.
But base then didn't include AP.
You don't have EAP, e.g. NOA, do you?
Then this $3k upgrade doesn't apply to you.

As to determining if YOU have HW3, there's undoubtedly
a way, but since I KNOW I don't have it ...

I do understand that the $3k upgrade doesn't apply to me. I have the included AP in my car. I do have NOA still (was told it was a trial but still have it after more than 2 months). Not going to say anything to Tesla about that. I am sure it will go away one day.

From what I have read there really is no way to determine if I have HW3 except for Tesla to open the car up and check.

If that has changed please someone let me know how to figure it out.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Just for the people who may be planning to upgrade for $3k, regardless of how nebulous it may be in the email, keep in mind:

Tesla will require driver attention with FSD!

You will be required to keep your hands on the wheel (maybe another attention mechanism like the camera will be used at some point - but for sure full attention will be required).

There won’t be any “car driving to work while you work on your computer.”

You are paying to 100% drive your car to work; even when/if it gets to the point it can do this itself, you will still be required to be 100% the driver in charge with hands on wheel while it performs the task. That is Full Self-Driving!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

From what I have read there really is no way to determine if I have HW3 except for Tesla to open the car up and check.

My understanding is you can check. And TeslaCam video encoding type is apparently another way to tell. There are threads here you can search for and read to determine what you can do to find out.

 

[Joshan]

You are paying to 100% drive your car to work; even when/if it gets to the point it can do this itself, you will still be required to be 100% the driver in charge with hands on wheel while it performs the task. That is Full Self-Driving!

Here are the different levels of FSD Autonomy with detailed explanations.

https://www.howtogeek.com/401759/what-are-the-different-self-driving-car-levels-of-autonomy/

There are quite a few companies already doing level 4 automation testing on public roads, including Tesla...

The Autonomy Day video showing the car driving the demo users is lvl 4 FSD Autonomy and that was 3 months ago.

It is coming... Level 4 will be here much sooner than level 5, but level 4 does not require you to touch the wheel.

 

[LJS22]

This will be an interesting time to look back on in a few years. It would be an easy decision if the FSD software could be tied to your account for life. But with it going to your car you have to hope that Tesla solves FSD in the next few years. Otherwise many will be buying a new car anyways and will need to repurchase FSD at whatever price to get it on their current vehicle.

However, if Musk is right and he gets FSD accomplished and through legislation then Tesla could very well see demand skyrocket past production rates. Thus creating a reason to charge much higher rates for FSD.

It’s possible they could implement a FSD monthly service that you pay out, but when you look at these two scenarios it seems highly likely that FSD will be something to get for your next car versus the current car. I don’t know that we’ve seen enough to believe it’s a problem that could be solved in a little over a year. I’d love to be proven wrong. Tesla would essentially be the most important company in the world at that point.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

if Musk is right and he gets FSD accomplished

As with NoA, Musk will be able to declare “Mission Accomplished” (probably no banner though) once city NoA reaches the current highway NoA situation. That means hands on the wheel and computer performing ~95%+ of tasks (which would be pretty amazing!) while the driver is still 100% responsible for driving.

Remember, we already have Full Self-Driving on the highways according to Elon.

I’m not convinced that the demand will be all that high once FSD is at that level. That would satisfy all of Tesla’s delivery obligations for FSD though - so it would be Mission Accomplished.

 

[ibGeek]

Isn't that just NOA? I thought that FSD is not approved for use anywhere yet.

No, that is a pre-release developer version of FSD. It can already stop at stoplights, stop signs and handle city streets. It is not yet approved for the public but it is approved for testing and promotion. That video was from the Autonomy day event. If you haven't watched that event, look it up on YouTube and watch it. It's highly technical but very informative.

 

[ibGeek]

I agree! I think mine was $57k after the tax credit. I have a P3D+ with EAP. It was a great deal compared to the BMW M3! The pricing on the car is great.

My only question is if the FSD is worth $3k or if it will drop back down to $2k again in the future... Especially if nothing is delivered for FSD in the next year and I end up selling the car to upgrade...

There is always the possibility... But If advanced summon gets released this year then I'd say the prices will only go up from there. And I really do think it will.

 

[Octo]

I find the timing curious. Why now? Why not *when* or *after* they release city NOA and enhanced summon.

So that one can make an informed decision if the quality of these features is worth the price.

Why does Tesla want you to buy it sight-unseen? I think that’s off putting, especially with the history of Tesla’s FSD promises.

 

[ibGeek]

Just for the people who may be planning to upgrade for $3k, regardless of how nebulous it may be in the email, keep in mind:

Tesla will require driver attention with FSD!

You will be required to keep your hands on the wheel (maybe another attention mechanism like the camera will be used at some point - but for sure full attention will be required).

There won’t be any “car driving to work while you work on your computer.”

You are paying to 100% drive your car to work; even when/if it gets to the point it can do this itself, you will still be required to be 100% the driver in charge with hands on wheel while it performs the task. That is Full Self-Driving!

Um, no. That is 100% incorrect. Please spread your BS elsewhere.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Um, no. That is 100% incorrect. Please spread your BS elsewhere.

Which part is incorrect? This is my understanding of how this will roll out...it will be a level 2 system, at least initially. It is not intended to be BS.

Do you think that FSD will not require driver attention?

Getting to L3/L4/L5 may take some considerable time even after all the features are in place! I just think it is important to realize this if you are thinking of upgrading.

 

[ibGeek]

I find the timing curious. Why now? Why not *when* or *after* they release city NOA and enhanced summon.

So that one can make an informed decision if the quality of these features is worth the price.

Why does Tesla want you to buy it sight-unseen? I think that’s off putting, especially with the history of Tesla’s FSD promises.

That would be the better way to do it for sure.

 

[LJS22]

I find the timing curious. Why now? Why not *when* or *after* they release city NOA and enhanced summon.

So that one can make an informed decision if the quality of these features is worth the price.

Why does Tesla want you to buy it sight-unseen? I think that’s off putting, especially with the history of Tesla’s FSD promises.

Elon is concerned they will sell too many cars at that point.

 

[ibGeek]

Which part is incorrect? This is my understanding of how this will roll out...it will be a level 2 system, at least initially. It is not intended to be BS.

Do you think that FSD will not require driver attention?

Getting to L3/L4/L5 may take some considerable time even after all the features are in place! I just think it is important to realize this if you are thinking of upgrading.

Your post claimed that users were never going to see L4 or L5. That is not true as it is already being tested in the wild by Tesla. So what people are paying for is L5. That has always been the end game. Advanced summon will be the first L5 function of the car.
It may take longer than Elon claims, and he has admitted as much a few times. But it will happen. The hold up now is moving everyone to HW3 and the edge case intersections.

 

[Joshan]

yesterday I saw what I think will be the hardest area for them. I had to drive to O'Hare airport in Chicago. That will be TOUGH!!!

 

[Daniel in SD]

Your post claimed that users were never going to see L4 or L5. That is not true as it is already being tested in the wild by Tesla. So what people are paying for is L5. That has always been the end game. Advanced summon will be the first L5 function of the car.
It may take longer than Elon claims, and he has admitted as much a few times. But it will happen. The hold up now is moving everyone to HW3 and the edge case intersections.

Enhanced Summon will absolutely not be L5. First thing it only works in parking lots so that would make it L3 or L4. Secondly, IT WILL REQUIRE DRIVER ATTENTION so that will make it a level 2 system. You will be responsible if the car runs into anything or anyone while using Enhanced Summon (exactly the same as Autopilot).

 

[Joshan]

It is meant to be used in Parking Lots, but I doubt it will be geo-fenced.

Just like AP currently is only for highways, but you can turn it on in the city.

 

[ibGeek]

Enhanced Summon will absolutely not be L5. First thing it only works in parking lots so that would make it L3 or L4. Secondly, IT WILL REQUIRE DRIVER ATTENTION so that will make it a level 2 system. You will be responsible if the car runs into anything or anyone while using Enhanced Summon (exactly the same as Autopilot).

So when your car comes from the garage to pick you up, your going to be sitting in the car. Or maybe Tesla will make you fly a drone overhead so that you know to stop the car before it does something you don't like? Please explain to me how you are going to be able to supervise a car that you can not see? I mean even if you can see the car, you can't see all sides of it. The car will be geo-fenced until FSD is released to within given range but it will be L5.


BTW L2 requires human in control, hands on the wheel.

 

[Daniel in SD]

So when your car comes from the garage to pick you up, your going to be sitting in the car. Or maybe Tesla will make you fly a drone from overhead so that you know to stop the car before it does something you don't like? Please explain to me how you are going to be able to supervise a car that you can not see? I mean even if you can see the car, you can't see all sides of it. The car will be geo-fenced until FSD is released to within given range but it will be L5.

I have the same questions! I assume that you will have to only use it in situations where you can clearly see everything around the vehicle. Anyway, I can guarantee you that Tesla will state clearly in the instructions that you are responsible for monitoring the system and that makes it a Level 2 system.

Level 2 does not require hands on the wheel.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Your post claimed that users were never going to see L4 or L5.

Where did I say that??? To be clear, in general, I believe at some point in the future, drivers will see L4 & L5 functionality in some cars - I just don't know when, or which cars, or what the feature will be called. I was just describing what the parameters of Tesla's FSD product were, to satisfy FSD requirements. It MAY be possible that it goes beyond those parameters (to L3/L4/L5) at some point. But it is not required, based on my reading of Tesla's website where they sell this FSD feature.

Please help me!!! I need serious help! Here are the pages on Tesla's website, for the upgrade, and for their general new sales section, and the email from yesterday.

Where does it say that FSD will be guaranteed fully autonomous? Point it out to me! As I read it, FSD as currently specified is an L2 feature. If they deliver that in city, parking lots, and highways, based on the website verbiage, they will have satisfied their obligations. Of course they will continue to try to make it safer & fully autonomous - but it's not a requirement for them to have satisfied their obligations.

If you see it some other way based on the below, please tell me, and explain.

(I should note that the upgrade page verbiage is considerably more clear about what is required in the future than the new order page - see below for the slight differences - the new order page verbiage is impossible to parse, and has been that way for some time.) "The activation and use of these features are dependent..." vs. "The future use of these features without supervision is dependent..."