Starting this thread now so that when FSD v12.4 information inevitably comes out (soon?), it gets posted here instead of getting lost in the 12.x thread.
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FSD v12.4
- Thread starter Todd Burch
- Start date
12.4 has likely been in development for several months. Therefore it is likely that it was trained prior to Tesla bringing the latest huge cluster of H100s and other compute online.
I would expect more improvement from 12.4 to 12.5 than we will see from 12.3 to 12.4. Elon’s comment about (latest version is mind-blowing—yes I know, I know)….and the comment about rare interventions I believe are in reference to 12.5, not 12.4. But I could be wrong there.
I would expect more improvement from 12.4 to 12.5 than we will see from 12.3 to 12.4. Elon’s comment about (latest version is mind-blowing—yes I know, I know)….and the comment about rare interventions I believe are in reference to 12.5, not 12.4. But I could be wrong there.
jgleigh
Member
Okay, so if they eliminate the steering wheel nag, then that literally frees up the steering wheel for in-lane steering adjustments (e.g. pothole avoidance) without disabling FSD.
In fact, I wonder if that was the inspiration for eliminating it.
And, of course, elimination of the torque lock means that taking over from FSD will be smooth and natural. I know that a number of folks are looking forward to that.
In fact, I wonder if that was the inspiration for eliminating it.
And, of course, elimination of the torque lock means that taking over from FSD will be smooth and natural. I know that a number of folks are looking forward to that.
I don't think either of those things are likely.
So you expect the torque lock to remain, but just no torque nags? Yeah, I can see that as a natural progression of disappointments from Tesla.
Okay. I'll bite. Why? Other systems operate without a torque lock, so are you suggesting that it is hardware restriction?
What other systems that can make turns? Blue Cruise and SuperCruise turn the wheel when it's making a turn, if you resist it won't still make the turn. I'm confused on what you are saying.
Edit: When Blue Cruise has a sharp turn or in other situations, it looks for torque on the wheel (variable, so wheel weights do not work).
The goal is to be able to move the wheel to bias within the lane. I recall that there are systems that allow that. The torque lock prevents Tesla drivers from inputting any steering motion at all; the wheel is locked to FSD. If the torque lock is disabled while the system is active, then it would be possible for a driver to provide steering input while FSD remains active. FSD would only disengage if too much steering input was provided.
I'm guessing that systems that do this must detect the steering pressure by the driver, then apply that steering for the driver. So the assist is still doing the driving, but it's using cues provided by the driver to adjust its behavior. A bit like the driver putting on a turn signal to change lanes; it's collaborative.
dachshund
Member
The wheel is still locked and controlled by the car in any system that can make turns that doesn't have steer by wire.
You are asking for a wheel lock that allows some movement to correct lane position. I would guess Tesla would not allow this as they have been progressively removing driver preferences from FSD as the software gets better, but the wheel will never freely turn at will on a car that the wheel needs to turn to dictate the wheel position.
Yup. And if the car detects torque on the steering wheel, it can respond to that torque as if it was the system's idea in the first place. Apply too much torque or for too long (e.g. leaving the lane) and the system disables. Lucid has a lane bias system that works like this. I'm thinking of something more technically advanced/complex, and it can probably be done just by responding to pressure against the torque lock. That is, if we no longer apply torque to let the system know we're "paying attention", then the torque sensor can be used as another pair of buttons in the car. Press it one way and the car drifts within its lane to one side. Press it the other way and the car drifts within its lane to the other side.
You're calling it a wheel lock. I'm saying that the system can spot torque on the steering wheel and react to it. It may be that the torque lock is the only sensor available, and it really does work like a pair of buttons, left and right. If so, then the above would be the solution I'm after.
I can't imagine that taking away driver (or passenger) preferences should ever become a thing (apart from the obvious of obnoxious or illegal prferences). If I hop into a robotaxi and I want a leisurely trip through town, the taxi should respect that, and not race to get me to the destination. It should be respected along with all my other preferences. Imagine getting into a robotaxi and your profile gets loaded so the car is configured for how you like to get around. Seat position, temperature, music preferences, and so on, but also fastest route, quietest route, shortest route, most scenic route, avoid my ex-wife's neighborhood, etc.
FSD has removed follow distance options, stop sign options (due to the NTHSA), and looks to be removing set speed options with Auto Max.
Elon has talked about this in the past, if the car is driving for you, you shouldn't worry if it's following your preferences. They are programming it to be the best driver, not drive "like you". While I don't agree on a L2 system, this looks to be the path they are taking. Routing and comfort of the cabin are different than follow distance, lane positioning, etc.
edit: I'll add that 12.3.6 lines to drive on the reflective bumps towards the center of the lane, for me. This could mean that I need a camera calibration, but I would use that option in those circumstances.
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I've been hoping that this is a result of going to neural networks, and that it's such a new medium for them that they haven't gotten around to implementing people's preferences. The preferences are needed because their attempts at making driving decisions for the driver are pretty awful. Lane selection, speed selection, acceleration profiles; all rubbish.
When the car is driving even more responsibly than I would drive, then I won't worry. Until then, I'll want my preferences so that the car behaves in a way that I find responsible. If I got into a taxi service that routinely drove like idiots around town (or even in an uncomfortable way), I'd stop using that taxi service. With my own car, I expect it to provide the taxi service of my choice. My preference.
Near 0% chance a RT would allow you to change follow distance, speed, or lane position.
We will see. 12.4 should be a huge step. Hopefully lane position will be centered and it will be a non-issue.
jgleigh
Member
OMG could Tesla please add this! I hate being centered in the lane while driving in the left-most or right-most lane. Need as much room between me and the idiots on their phones weaving between the lane lines.
KArnold
Active Member
Sorry, dachshund, I didn't see this question.
The torque lock is the thing that prevents the driver from turning the steering wheel while FSD or Autopilot is active. If the driver wants to take over control, there is a certain amount of force that the driver has to apply to steering to "break" that lock.
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