Any advice on subscription vs purchase? I think I would trade-up to a newer car at around 5 years. So purchase would only be worthwhile if I am able to transfer or the subscription price goes up significantly. I know there have been FSD transfer promotions, but how frequent and long have they run for? Is it easy enough to catch the window or have you had to bite the bullet on a less than ideal price in order to take advantage of the transfer?
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FSD v12.x (end to end AI)
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
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- Tags
- #fixphantombraking autopilot chill is not chill elon is an ass fix fsd extreme late deceleration fsd does not commit to go fsd does not maintain proper speed fsd doesn't read signs properly fsd hard and late braking fsd has decision wobble fsd jerky driving fsd late deceleration fsd sometimes may not detect train crossings fsd stops too early too quickly fsd stops too far behind line fsd tailgating in city streets
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Not an edge case.
Maybe this means we’ll have to wait for 12.5 for the fix to this very difficult problem. I am still betting on a 12.4 fix though.
Crazy that people are still sacrificing their wheels! I just disengage before every right turn (and some left ones).
Not sure what you mean.
two main road intersection, but the crossing of one of the roads is not straight, in fact if you go straight across, you end up in the opposite direction's left turning lane
you get across fine when FSD can follow a lead car, if you are the lead car, you must disengage or take a path into the opposite directions drive path
the road designers, seem to never mark the path on the road, therefore as you saw from the satellite photo, there is not path lines in my example
doesn't FSD camera determine where the vehicle is on the mapped data, and drive diagonally for a successful crossing of a nightmare intersection
bad designers.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The latter is exactly what I mean, it should have a lane planner that plans out EXACTLY what lanes it needs to be in for the whole route before even setting out. Yes, traffic conditions can change and you miss a certain lane (just like how you can miss a turn following the navigation), but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about just having an optimal plan in the first place.
Navigation doesn't appear to have that function, so FSD will have to have its own macro lane planning to figure out an optimal lane plane before it even sets out, otherwise it will be forced to act like a human that is using a standard nav unfamiliar with the route, meaning they easily get into the "wrong" lane, requiring last minute lane changes.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think your particular example for 11.x is because FSD wasn't able to handle U-turns (it still barely does even in the current version) so FSD may have had a built in "avoid U-turns" function that wasn't visible in the UI. But because the UI doesn't show a full lane plan for the whole route, it's not possible to know directly if there is one. The gist I get from comments above is picking the correct lane isn't common enough to seem like there is a wholistic lane plan.
I think it depends on how likely you think that your HW4 will turn into a proper robotaxi style FSD by the time you are selling your car so the next owner may be able to monetize it. If it doesn't then I doubt it will be worth much to them because Teslas come with a decent enough basic autopilot as standard which is good enough for most second hand buyers.
Thanks for sharing the screen shots. Sorry your car was damaged. We had a deer run across us while using FSD V11.4.2 but my husband took over before the car could complain and the braking gave the deer enough time to get past us.
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Worth noting that Tesla is included in the "Hands-free driving technology" ride-and-drive for regulators today. Either Tesla has a hands-free build of 12.3, or they're demoing 12.4 to regulators:
zoomer0056
Active Member
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Under certain circumstances, yes: 2024.9.5 (FSD 12.4) Official Tesla Release Notes - Software Updates
zoomer0056
Active Member
Interesting definition of what hands free means, one only needs eyeballs paying attention. Such very narrow definition seems to be purely a marketing ploy. Also interesting the NotATeskaApp does not specifically say hands free but others are led on to say it. Tesla definitely does not say hands free.
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In desperation, due to the promised better calculations of range, we downloaded 2024.3.25 in order to get FSD V12.3.6 while we were away. It appears to be worse than what we had before 12.3.3 for our use case but we really can't tell because we still can't use it for most of our twice monthly summer drive. Sigh... Currently, the car overestimates the range left after the 3 hours drive by 15%. Which is why I have such range anxiety with the car (this is an ongoing issue but recently I've started to document it when I'm the passenger by taking photos of the screen during the drive.)
It still thinks Highway 60 is a 60kph road so that big issue isn't fixed (that's 2/3, two hours, of each drive.) AP is fussy about going more than 10kph over the limit (which it also thinks is 60kph) so the workaround, after switching profiles to non-FSD, is to single-pull for TACC, set the speed at 85kph (still annoyingly slow for other drivers but we need to conserve range because this is an L3-absent route), then double-pull for Autosteer. Then it will slow when it gets to towns (very nicely, I might add), and allow the speed to be dialed back up when exiting the town.
Worse, in the last hour, while on FSD on a controlled access highway, we had our first "Autosteer aborted due to system error". It occurred as we went under an underpass. We think it was the driver's steering wheel torque that pulled the car to the right dramatically the moment FSD aborted. Thankfully we were already in the right lane and so moved partly onto the shoulder before control was regained.
The screen never went black but the speed display part of the screen didn't look normal until the system restarted. When we attempted to use FSD the system kept beeping every few systems due to weather degradation of FSD (steady but moderate rain) so we switched to AP which only allowed 5kph over the speed limit of 100 kph (far slower than other traffic around us - FSD had been going 110kph when it aborted which is why we were in the right lane.)
We switched to TACC only (single pull), scrolled up to 110 kph, then double-pulled for TACC + Autosteer which worked but the system dropped the speed back to 105kph after a few miles and that trick didn't work a second time so the rest of the drive was manual driving.
Not impressed. Especially with the work-arounds we have to do to just get a basic ADAS of cruise control and lane-keep on this drive.
It will be a long summer of being constantly reminded of the bugs in AP and FSD. We usually make this trip 2x a year so already knew of the problem with highway 60 signs, this has been present since our first time driving it in 2021. Think of all the updates done since then, none of which resolved this issue. I had great hope when V12 came out and others started to complain on forums about the issue, but we are now 3 updates into V12 and no fix yet.
This year it will be a minimal of 12 trips so many more reminders of why I have such a hate for tesla. I know, this is all my fault for renting a summer home that is both in an L3 desert (which makes each trip well planned for since there is no way to fast charge without a long detour) and a problematic highway number (seriously?????) On the plus side, since it takes 48 hours to get enough charge to get back home, I "have" to stay up at the cottage for at least 2 nights and not go anywhere. (My family have been informed in an emergency, I can detour on the way home to get a charge but it will add a third to the length of the return trip.)
It still thinks Highway 60 is a 60kph road so that big issue isn't fixed (that's 2/3, two hours, of each drive.) AP is fussy about going more than 10kph over the limit (which it also thinks is 60kph) so the workaround, after switching profiles to non-FSD, is to single-pull for TACC, set the speed at 85kph (still annoyingly slow for other drivers but we need to conserve range because this is an L3-absent route), then double-pull for Autosteer. Then it will slow when it gets to towns (very nicely, I might add), and allow the speed to be dialed back up when exiting the town.
Worse, in the last hour, while on FSD on a controlled access highway, we had our first "Autosteer aborted due to system error". It occurred as we went under an underpass. We think it was the driver's steering wheel torque that pulled the car to the right dramatically the moment FSD aborted. Thankfully we were already in the right lane and so moved partly onto the shoulder before control was regained.
The screen never went black but the speed display part of the screen didn't look normal until the system restarted. When we attempted to use FSD the system kept beeping every few systems due to weather degradation of FSD (steady but moderate rain) so we switched to AP which only allowed 5kph over the speed limit of 100 kph (far slower than other traffic around us - FSD had been going 110kph when it aborted which is why we were in the right lane.)
We switched to TACC only (single pull), scrolled up to 110 kph, then double-pulled for TACC + Autosteer which worked but the system dropped the speed back to 105kph after a few miles and that trick didn't work a second time so the rest of the drive was manual driving.
Not impressed. Especially with the work-arounds we have to do to just get a basic ADAS of cruise control and lane-keep on this drive.
It will be a long summer of being constantly reminded of the bugs in AP and FSD. We usually make this trip 2x a year so already knew of the problem with highway 60 signs, this has been present since our first time driving it in 2021. Think of all the updates done since then, none of which resolved this issue. I had great hope when V12 came out and others started to complain on forums about the issue, but we are now 3 updates into V12 and no fix yet.
This year it will be a minimal of 12 trips so many more reminders of why I have such a hate for tesla. I know, this is all my fault for renting a summer home that is both in an L3 desert (which makes each trip well planned for since there is no way to fast charge without a long detour) and a problematic highway number (seriously?????) On the plus side, since it takes 48 hours to get enough charge to get back home, I "have" to stay up at the cottage for at least 2 nights and not go anywhere. (My family have been informed in an emergency, I can detour on the way home to get a charge but it will add a third to the length of the return trip.)
A demo usually shows a prototype (latest development as said on the screenshot) operating in ideal conditions. If the demo is a slow speed drive on a straight or circular path having no traffic then Tesla, BMW, GM and other companies will ace it.
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zoomer0056
Active Member
You missed "as well as an exciting Ride-and-Drive event..."
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
It's the same definition as all other L2 hands-free systems. Some attempt to observe the eyes through sunglasses, but none are guaranteed to work with them.
ArchHamster
Member
I had such high hopes for vision based autopark, but reality has crushed them.
It takes too long to select a spot on the x, it's more tolerable on the y, and i hate having to come to a complete stop like a dementia patient to start the process. When it starts. It's slow and still grinds the wheels. While it performs well in empty parking lots, in my real life tests in crowded parking lots (where I'd most want this system) it has failed 4 out of 5 times. And when it fails, it's so frustrating. It doesn't tell you why. It just aborts and you're stuck guessing.
I'm sad to say that autoparking is still a gimmick feature which I can't recommend to people. When none tesla owners hear me say fsd has gotten usable but autopark doesn't work, they don't believe me about fsd. Tesla really needs to make autopark a priority, they should be class leading in this area. It's embarrassing that they aren't.
It takes too long to select a spot on the x, it's more tolerable on the y, and i hate having to come to a complete stop like a dementia patient to start the process. When it starts. It's slow and still grinds the wheels. While it performs well in empty parking lots, in my real life tests in crowded parking lots (where I'd most want this system) it has failed 4 out of 5 times. And when it fails, it's so frustrating. It doesn't tell you why. It just aborts and you're stuck guessing.
I'm sad to say that autoparking is still a gimmick feature which I can't recommend to people. When none tesla owners hear me say fsd has gotten usable but autopark doesn't work, they don't believe me about fsd. Tesla really needs to make autopark a priority, they should be class leading in this area. It's embarrassing that they aren't.
What competing Autopark system have you tested in the same situations that performs better?
zoomer0056
Active Member
This is a given. It's new technology, it's not a final product. "It's so annoyingga!" That "ga" at the end is a paragoge.
Yeah, I'm making fun of the post. It's normal to expect more, not get it, then complain. I get it.
While on the free trial I tried Tesla Vision Auto Park in an empty parking lot. I was impressed. However I'd not use it in a crowded Walmart parking lot ... because it's so annoyingga.
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ArchHamster
Member
I mean I guess in the same way that vision based autowipers is a new technology, sure.
But practically, people expect working autowipers on a tech leading car.
