Perhaps this is the solution, a 3-phase to DC UMC-like device. You could use it in your garage, or throw it in the frunk and take it on the road. Certainly storage capacity isn't an issue with the Model S.
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Perhaps this is the solution, a 3-phase to DC UMC-like device. You could use it in your garage, or throw it in the frunk and take it on the road. Certainly storage capacity isn't an issue with the Model S.
It would still work if the chargers can accept DC input. I don't know enough about IGBTs to answer that.
What they told at the event, the same pins will be used for AC and DC charging.
So a external 3-phase to DC "UMC" would work.
Don't know if it can be small enough though to be portable.
If that "UMC" would talk EVSE it could also be connected to existing charging stations and be able to charge there. It's not the solution I want, but it's better than charging on 16A single-phase.
That the pins can be used for DC charging has no bearing on this problem. Normal DC charging har an offboard charger connecting directly to the cars battery. A complete charger is much too big to lug around and much too expensive to leave outside for charging.
I propose just a part of the charger is offboard, namely the rectifier. Then to feed the DC from the external rectifier to the car's onboard charger.
I know who it was that visited RWE and I remember that shortly afterwards Tesla went cold on being involved with infrastructure. I don't think it's coincidence that about a month ago RWE announced they were installing CHAdeMO along the autobahn. It seems that RWE have seen the Leaf get early traction and jumped horses to the DC side.
I think Tesla got told what they wanted to hear.
It doesn't change the fact that a 44 kW three phase socket is a few tens of pounds and can be installed for a few hundred.
I think Tesla got told what they wanted to hear.
It doesn't change the fact that a 44 kW three phase socket is a few tens of pounds and can be installed for a few hundred.
Usually not. At least half the cost of installing the fast charge stations over here (Norway) is delivery of electricity and site preparation. 3x63A for a Mennekes-socket or 3x80A for a CHAdeMO unit costs roughly the same, typically around €30k. The price of the actual fast charger is falling rapidly, soon down to less than €8k. So maybe €40k for a 50kW CHAdeMO unit or €30k for a 3x63A Mennekes EVSE. Not that big a difference.
Wouldn't there need to be a current regulator somewhere? Since they claim 90kW high speed DC charging, I would assume that the internal (2x 10kW) chargers might not be able to handle that (?), and so the DC mode might redirect the power directly to the battery (?)
I guess I am a little skeptical that they could do this scheme you describe with the on-board chargers handling DC charging with an external rectifier. If they could do such a thing, wouldn't it still be limited to 20kW total charge rate? Maybe that is enough for 3phase European "home charging", but they would still need another way to kick it up to 90kW for "road trip public charging". Would the car need to be able to direct DC input either through the chargers (for cases with only an external rectifier) as well as, alternatively, directly to the battery pack for charging sessions with an external 90kW charger?
Well, I am just musing / pondering here - maybe I don't really understand what you are suggesting or how this can work.
I have seen several hotels with spare 3x125A capacity... the difference between 3-Phase "mennekes" and CHAdeMO deployment is HUGH if you are installing at an existing site. Indeed in the very heart of Scotland (Aviemore) David and I identified many, many sub-stations in the new ski resort that would support multiple low cost "mennekes" deployments.
I'm expecting the ZCW 32A "mennekes" Charging Station to retail at £250 early next year. I see no reason why a 3x63A version would retail for more than £500.... we need to reset our expectations and remember this is hardly worth calling 'high power'.
Really odd to not support 3-phase. Tesla went through the trouble to design a battery pack that could be fast swapped (with their own custom designed quick connect/disconnect electrical and water fittings) "just in case" that idea became popular. Seems to me the argument for 3-phase in Europe is strong enough to meet that standard.
Well perhaps like someone suggested they'll come up with another connector for Europe that supports 3-phase. Maybe not Mennekes, but something that can be adapted to 3-phase Mennekes with a cable... yet another adapter cable.
Well perhaps like someone suggested they'll come up with another connector for Europe that supports 3-phase. Maybe not Mennekes, but something that can be adapted to 3-phase Mennekes with a cable... yet another adapter cable.
I'm not really sure why it needs to be any more expensive than a pilot generator, contactor and this: PCE Wall Socket 63A 400V 3P+E IP67
no reason... cost drivers today are the "mennekes" socket and pilot generator... everything else is mainstream electrical equipment
EV_de
Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47
Correct. I proposed this solution so people in Europle could charge at more than 3.7kW at home (16A single phase). 3x16A is 11kW, much better. Most cannot spare 32A on a single phase, the intake to the house might be 3x32A or 3x40A.
You could also charge at public 3x32A or 3x63A charge points at the 20kW rate instead of being limited to 7.3kW or 14.5kW.
Hotels and ski resorts have no need for CHAdeMO chargers, you usually spend 8-16 hours at those places. How many motorway service stations have 3x125A to spare ?
I have seen cost estimates for the CHAdeMO stations in Norway, the installations range from €50k to $75k. The actual charger is much less than that so a large portion is the cost of trenching/digging, running conduit and cables, connection fees etc.
Talkredius
Member
Yes, it's quite common for high power rectifiers to use IGBTs and switch them instead of using diodes. It results in lower voltage drop across the device, which results in more power transferred and less heating of the semiconductor.
The kit would no doubt be very large for DC Fast Charge, but a smaller unit could convert 3-phase to DC at a lower current.
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