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Talkredius
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+ me
+ Eberhard (at the moment in CA)
and Tesla is more MS like than Apple like, "640 kB is enough for everybody"
A short glimpse on my (+ other )Roadster odometer would convince everyone at Tesla otherwise.
I'll sign your letter and perhaps write my own letter too.
I think it is a good idea to send the letter(s) via Mail, an email is so easily forwarded or deleted.
I want to to collect all the arguments from Tesla and put our points against them like :
"charging is done mostly overnight"
yes of course if only single phase 32 A is available I have to wait 12 hours and have stay overnight in a hotel on a business trip
but we should open a different thread for this
i talk to JB Straubel yesterday. He mentioned the DC as quickcharging. There i could connect any external charger i like. he mentioned also the problems wih powercorrection with 3 phases. i learnt later that there are up to two 10 kW charger on board. it may be possible to pu them on different phases. but there is not enough space to place a mennekes inlet socket into the small hole for the new sleek tesla connector. it was also said, that a person was send over to germany to talk with RWE and Vattenfall about the need for 3-phase charging. the result was, that 3-phase charging is not important. i hope, that the homologation process will force the 3-phase charging for higher rates then 16A as being the standard in europe.
Who said that 3-phase was not important? Tesla or RWE?
And I don't see all available charging stations being converted to high power 1-phase connectors.
Even 2x 10kW would better, that would result in a max of 14kW while charging on 2x32A, much better then 1x 32A!
I don't mind giving up some cargo-space in the back (there is more then enough), but seriously, charging a Model S on 16A... That takes ages.
They also didn't mention which DC charging they would use, so that's still a guess.
these seems to contradict your previous conversation with JB Straubel regarding 3-Phase support. Do you think they understand the importance of 3-Phase in Europe?
and me (without it I suspect I'll be able to travel further in a day in the Roadster than the Model S because of the UK HPC network)
I think the Volt and Leaf have 3.3 kW chargers partly due to US utility companies suggestion to automakers that it will be easier for them to manage. The people consulted at the German utilities may have been thinking along the same lines. "Limit them to 16A single phase, less load on local transformers, and less generator load on summer afternoons when everyone gets home from work and plugs in."
Rather short-sighted in my opinion, since it reduces the utility of EVs.
GSP
3x10kW chargers may not be the absolute ideal 3-phase solution, but what is needed now is a workable 3-phase solution. Three chargers and a Mennekes, or appropriate proprietary connector, will work very nicely, and greatly increase the utility of the Model S in Europe.
Later, when there is enough volume to pay for the development of dedicated 3-phase chargers, I expect they will be offered, and the European OEMs will be first to do so.
GSP
Sounds to me like a good way to take advantage of the higher production rates of those 10kW chargers, since they will be making 20,000-40,000 annually for Model S consumption. They are already designed to be paralleled (one or two in the car)...
I would argue that high prices of existing DC fast chargers have more to do with recouping engineering and manufacturing costs for low-volume production than with intrinsically high-priced parts/components...
I agree that the 9x10kW will be a good way to leverage the investment made for the on-board charger.
I also hope that Tesla offers a 3x10kW external charger for Europeans to install in their homes. This should be a great solution for home charging. If only DC fast charging were widely available on the road.........
GSP
PS. The 3x10kW external charger would also be great for small business owners in the US to "fast" charge at work, or for fleets that don't need the full 90kW system.
I also hope that Tesla offers a 3x10kW external charger for Europeans to install in their homes. This should be a great solution for home charging. If only DC fast charging were widely available on the road.........
GSP
PS. The 3x10kW external charger would also be great for small business owners in the US to "fast" charge at work, or for fleets that don't need the full 90kW system.
sorry but I don't think this proprietary system will compete with CHAdeMO given that Nissan alone expects to sell 5,000 of the new ~£8K (~$12K) unit by March 2016
http://www.nissaninsider.co.uk/nissan-unveils-new-chargers/
I'm not a big fan of CHAdeMO but with thousands on the ground in the next few years it makes sense to use those Charger networks IMO.
I'm sure you're more aware of market forces and infrastructure rollout in Europe than I, so you may well be right.
That said, I'm sure an adapter will be created to take advantage of the CHAdeMO infrastructure. The requirements of such an adapter were briefly discussed on this thread: What charge port connector - Tesla Motors Club
(Not trying to argue the decision of Tesla making yet-another-custom-power-connector, just that Tesla will most likely create an adapter, and even if they don't we will see aftermarket adapters to fill the void)
That said, I'm sure an adapter will be created to take advantage of the CHAdeMO infrastructure. The requirements of such an adapter were briefly discussed on this thread: What charge port connector - Tesla Motors Club
It won't be elegant, but it would at least be usable.doug said:
(Not trying to argue the decision of Tesla making yet-another-custom-power-connector, just that Tesla will most likely create an adapter, and even if they don't we will see aftermarket adapters to fill the void)
There might be an easy solution for 3-phase charging.
The existing chargers take AC in, rectifies it and runs it through a DC-DC converter. It is easier to rectify 3-phase than single phase. If the chargers can take DC input instead of AC (no reason they should not be able to do that, DC will just pass through the internal rectifiers) one can use an external 3-phase rectifier built into a (bigger) version of the UMC and feed the chargers DC through the Tesla plug.
3x16A could provide 10kW of power, 3x32a 20kW.
Does anybody know how big the rectifier would be and typical loss (=heat) ?
The existing chargers take AC in, rectifies it and runs it through a DC-DC converter. It is easier to rectify 3-phase than single phase. If the chargers can take DC input instead of AC (no reason they should not be able to do that, DC will just pass through the internal rectifiers) one can use an external 3-phase rectifier built into a (bigger) version of the UMC and feed the chargers DC through the Tesla plug.
3x16A could provide 10kW of power, 3x32a 20kW.
Does anybody know how big the rectifier would be and typical loss (=heat) ?
So, I spoke directly with people who would be in a position to know, and when I asked them about that they indicated that they are keeping it proprietary for now. I gather their focus is getting their solution working for themselves with their own control over everything, and they will think about the option of opening it up to others later.
I mentioned some concern that the Roadster power connector was kept proprietary and the response was:
"That is a bit of a different story. We were concerned that the supplier had a limit to how much of that hardware they could produce, and we didn't want to have supply problems because others were getting the parts instead of us." We shall see if they make their new plug/socket as an open standard or leave it Tesla proprietary.
Just because some people want it doesn't guarantee they will build it. I don't think it is a priority for them right now.
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