Norbert
TSLA will win
They may not have made a final decision yet, perhaps they are negotiating third party solutions. Also I wouldn't be surprised if you don't hear anything until after the Supercharger announcement.
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They may not have made a final decision yet, perhaps they are negotiating third party solutions. Also I wouldn't be surprised if you don't hear anything until after the Supercharger announcement.
I guess so. Although I hope they have something to show at the Geneva Motor Show.
Otherwise I guess we'll have to wait to the end of the Summer/Fall before the European specs are announced.
With all the information I get from various sources I do think that the Model S will support 3-phase charging.
I think that is very likely too, a proper liquid cooled three phase charger would be much less costly than three separate single phase chargers, plus there will be less maintenance, noise and heat. They should probably buy a third party solution until they have the time to build a good solution themselves.
I'm hoping for a "Yes, we will support three phase at at least x kW, further details will be released later on" at Geneva.
Curious how it will go!
But after reading all the motivations you all wrote, it will be hard for Tesla to withhold their customers the 3-phase charging!
Even for me, who is no electrician, it is obvious why allowing 3-phase charging is beneficial!
But after reading all the motivations you all wrote, it will be hard for Tesla to withhold their customers the 3-phase charging!
Even for me, who is no electrician, it is obvious why allowing 3-phase charging is beneficial!
When Tesla creates a new plug for the European spec we could always retrofit a BRUSA charger in the Model S
It would be even better if we could fit two of those BRUSA Chargers. 44kW AC, nice!In Europe you can already find 44kW AC charging stations.
Morlaixjam
Member
Today in Europe there is three big car manufacturer who sell EV it is Renault, Nissan and PSA.
Renault and Nissan belong the same group. Even if they do not use the same plug, CHAdeMO for Nissan DC fast charging solution . Renault use only slow charge method 220V 16A with AC EV plug alliance.
PSA use a different plug who is A YAZAKI Type 1 see this website : http://www.dbt.fr/produits/bornes-et-coffrets-de-recharge-pour-vehicules-electriques/les-differentes-prises/
According me we will find a lot of CHAdeMO plug in Europe because Nissan order to DBT 4000 charging station with slow and fas charging solution (slow is Yazaki type 1 and fast is CHAdeMO type 4.
Even if most of trip will be done for home to work and work to home I use to made trip over 350 km with my Roadster TESLA and tomorrow I will want to made more than 600 km with the modele S. But for people like me we need fast charging solutions. So it will be easier ti find Nissan charging station than other plug.
But I am sure that our politics are going to promote a standard that is going to be difficult to find. In Europe there is a war between German with the Menekers plug and France with the EV Plug Alliance....
The best thing for EU user will be to use standard industrial plug like we have today with our TESLA Roadster the 220V 32A blue plug or 380V 32A red plug. It exist plugs for 220V or 380V with more 100A. Why to use a communication protocol that is making the using difficult.
Renault and Nissan belong the same group. Even if they do not use the same plug, CHAdeMO for Nissan DC fast charging solution . Renault use only slow charge method 220V 16A with AC EV plug alliance.
PSA use a different plug who is A YAZAKI Type 1 see this website : http://www.dbt.fr/produits/bornes-et-coffrets-de-recharge-pour-vehicules-electriques/les-differentes-prises/
According me we will find a lot of CHAdeMO plug in Europe because Nissan order to DBT 4000 charging station with slow and fas charging solution (slow is Yazaki type 1 and fast is CHAdeMO type 4.
Even if most of trip will be done for home to work and work to home I use to made trip over 350 km with my Roadster TESLA and tomorrow I will want to made more than 600 km with the modele S. But for people like me we need fast charging solutions. So it will be easier ti find Nissan charging station than other plug.
But I am sure that our politics are going to promote a standard that is going to be difficult to find. In Europe there is a war between German with the Menekers plug and France with the EV Plug Alliance....
The best thing for EU user will be to use standard industrial plug like we have today with our TESLA Roadster the 220V 32A blue plug or 380V 32A red plug. It exist plugs for 220V or 380V with more 100A. Why to use a communication protocol that is making the using difficult.
So. 19. Feb.2012 i spoke to Roger Riedener peraves, Father of E-Tracer at SwissMoto Show.
There are 2 types:
- E-Tracer with ACPropulsion 10-80A 240V AC Onboard Charger, 3rd Generation of ACP, Tesla Roadster 0-499 was ACP 1st Generation
- Zerotracer with Brusa 1/3ph Charger 230/400V,3,6/11kW or more
Roger says Brusa NLG6 22kW is more expensive than the whole ACP equipment PMC, Motor, Charger
NLG 6 22kW is about 13000sFr >14000 $
NLG6 22kW 14000$ / Tesla 2x10kW 2x1500$ > 3000$
Morlaixjam
Member
I spoke with someone who work at the TESLA STORE in Paris and he told me that the Modele S will have a Mennekes type 2 plug for the European version.
Don't confuse the plug with 3-phase charging.
A Mennekes/Type 2 plug means physical capability to connect to a European charging station, however, with most cars only one of the three phases is connected.
EV_de
Model SP10/XP9 EU ZOE#47
really ? the Mennekes inlay is bigger then the charport ...
Oh wait, Tesla have to redesign it anyway, cause the flap easely broke of , right ?
the Mennekes inlay is bigger then the charport ...Oh wait, Tesla have to redesign it anyway, cause the flap easely broke of , right ?
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That's changing. Check out Renault Zoe, it will ship with on-board 44 kW three phase capability. Renault is the only manufacturer so far that I know has integrated the three phase charger into the motor drive, and look at the price. No-one else can match that.
Personally I don't care all that much which plug wins out in the end, there will be lots of 3-phase charge points in Europe, all the EV plug variants support 3-phase. As the communications protocol is the same, the plugs can be made to fit using adapters, but only if they support three phase. But you're right that we need adapters to the red CEEform plugs.
Don't count on Red CEE adapters, your Model S (and no other EV) will not be able to charge directly from a 16A or 32A CEE socket.
Regulations dictate that without the presence of a communication signal the car will default to 16A 1-phase.
You would need to have something like a UMC the Roadster currently has or some kind of portable EVSE.
Which regulations? I'm 99.9% certain that 16 A, 400 V three phase is allowed without any pilot signal or communications at all.
I know that many countries require a box on the cable, but no pilot pin or signaling is required, just like 16 A single phase today. The major point is to be able to connect to dumb 16 A, 400 V sockets. If we have to have a box on the cable I'll live with that, but IEC-60309 three phase connectivity would be very useful and should not be a problem.
As far as I've understood the charging protocol it works like this:
No pilot signal -> 16 A three phase or single phase depending on which pins are live.
Pilot signal -> Up to 32 A three phase.
Communication -> Up to 63 A three phase.
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It could be that 3-phase is allowed, although I don't think so.
However, you will end up with a box in the cable like the Roadster has.
That box does the communication to the car and lets you charge on CEE 32A 5p.
There will have to be some kind of logic outside the car, otherwise the car won't be able to detect the Amperage. You could even make your own portable EVSE with the Open-EVSE project. That would be sufficient for 3-phase charging on any socket
1 week bevor Arno died, Arno said, he is not net convinced the 22kW NLG 6 will be the future solution, becaus of DC & wireless charging.
We have not yet massproduction of NLG6.
You are right, but we have to cover the next 5-10 years until wireless charging will be common and DC quick charging is widely available. You know how frustrating it is waiting 6h for what can be done within 2h. (32A single phase versus 32A 3-phase)
On long distances, a Saxo with 80km/h speed limit is quite faster with 22kW charging then my tesla.
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