Future of FSD after "traffic light & stop sign response" release

[PVS]

So only for HW 3.0?

 

[Cmos2000]

The car does not look to me to be able to see directly left or right via a camera. The wide forward is about as good as it gets for left/right and that can not look 90 degrees relative to the front of the car. is it enough to pull out at an intersection or cross street.... I don't know.

There's 8 cameras on the car. 360 degree field of view. So of course it can see left/right.


Plenty of videos out there showing it too

View attachment 537512

 

[warren_ja]

There's 8 cameras on the car. 360 degree field of view. So of course it can see left/right.


Plenty of videos out there showing it too

View attachment 537512

According to the image you posted there is not a 360 field of view with the cameras. The only sensors shown that look 90 degrees to the right or left are the Ultrasonic sensors, which are limited to 8m. The wide forward camera will pick up some traffic, but only when it gets close enough to be within the view angle and that will be less than the 60m range.

 

[diplomat33]

I have not seen this discussed anywhere just yet. Does anyone know how FSD "sees" traffic to the right and left at an intersection? I have 2020.12.6 and am loving what I see so far. It is another significant step in the development of the autopilot. But it got me thinking about those next steps. Coming out of my neighborhood, there is a stop sign at a "T" intersection so I must turn either right or left onto a pretty busy road with traffic going 40-45 mph. For turns to be enabled, the car will need to "see" that it is safe to do so. However, I am not aware of any sensors that can look to the right or left for 100-200 feet to insure that a turn is safe from a traffic standpoint. Anyone know anything about this?

Yes, the car can see left and right. It's just not being displayed on the screen yet. There is actually a lot that the car can see that is not being displayed on the screen yet.

 

[diplomat33]

According to the image you posted there is not a 360 field of view with the cameras. The only sensors shown that look 90 degrees to the right or left are the Ultrasonic sensors, which are limited to 8m. The wide forward camera will pick up some traffic, but only when it gets close enough to be within the view angle and that will be less than the 60m range.

You are misinterpreting the graphic. The forward side cameras are the big arc that see 90 degrees on each side. The ultrasonics are the tiny circle close to the car. This graphic is easier to see.

 

[willow_hiller]

The car does not look to me to be able to see directly left or right via a camera. The wide forward is about as good as it gets for left/right and that can not look 90 degrees relative to the front of the car. is it enough to pull out at an intersection or cross street.... I don't know.

According to the image you posted there is not a 360 field of view with the cameras. The only sensors shown that look 90 degrees to the right or left are the Ultrasonic sensors, which are limited to 8m. The wide forward camera will pick up some traffic, but only when it gets close enough to be within the view angle and that will be less than the 60m range.

You both know about the B-pillar cameras, right?

Again, watch the video from Green I posted. The view from the B-pillar cameras is included there.

 

[Knightshade]

So only for HW 3.0?

Of course.

All future FSD features will require HW3

 

[tinkererguy]

Curious if you have to reset all your settings. I did and I'm still finding things I needed to reset.

Also curious, as I wrote up some tips for folks to see before they get their HW3 upgrade, in hopes of sparing them some pain, since apparently Tesla can sometimes restore settings at pickup:
https://TinkerTry.com/model-3-lost-profiles-after-hw3-fixed-by-tesla

 

[Nick's Life]

Also curious, as I wrote up some tips for folks to see before they get their HW3 upgrade, in hopes of sparing them some pain, since apparently Tesla can sometimes restore settings at pickup:
https://TinkerTry.com/model-3-lost-profiles-after-hw3-fixed-by-tesla

I wish I knew this.... I made a video of my experience getting HW3, got it 2 years into owning my M3.

 

[warren_ja]

You are misinterpreting the graphic. The forward side cameras are the big arc that see 90 degrees on each side. The ultrasonics are the tiny circle close to the car. This graphic is easier to see.

You are misinterpreting the graphic. The forward side cameras are the big arc that see 90 degrees on each side. The ultrasonics are the tiny circle close to the car. This graphic is easier to see.

Yes, this graphic is much better. Thanks for posting!

 

[Mo City]

You are misinterpreting the graphic. The forward side cameras are the big arc that see 90 degrees on each side. The ultrasonics are the tiny circle close to the car. This graphic is easier to see.

This graphic (and all others I've seen) indicate the views of the repeater cameras intersect. However, the camera views from various videos seem to indicate otherwise.

Yes, the car can see left and right. It's just not being displayed on the screen yet. There is actually a lot that the car can see that is not being displayed on the screen yet.

If this concept also applies to the repeaters, it would indicate they probably do overlap.

Two questions: How far behind the vehicle do the repeaters overlap? How do you know the cameras can see more than the screen displays?

 

[willow_hiller]

How far behind the vehicle do the repeaters overlap?

If you click back a page to the video I posted from Green, you can see that the repeaters do overlap past a certain point. Note the peak of the building in both the left and right repeaters simultaneously:

But the overlap does seem to only apply to further objects behind the car, that's where the rear-view really helps with coverage. Note the same car in all three bottom views (left repeater, backup, right repeater) simultaneously:

How do you know the cameras can see more than the screen displays?

Again, mostly a function of these development views provided by Green (and this particular video is over a year old). Note all of the vehicles seen by the camera and tracked with red boxes. But our UIs definitely do not display all of them.

 

[dckiwi]

But I think we can break it down in some obvious basic features:
- making turns at intersections
- auto lane changes on city streets to follow route
- roundabouts
- responding to road signs such as speed limit signs and "lane ending" signs.

There's one other key 'feature' that is required for true city NoA - the ability to navigate (autosteer and TACC) unmarked streets (i.e. neighborhood streets). This includes:

• Navigating a two way street with no lane markings (typical residential street).
• Navigating around parked cars.
• Ensuring you don't collide with oncoming traffic when navigating around parked cars.

I'm not sure if this is going to be one feature, or really just a series of FSD improvements. But until this is released, I can't activate AP/NoA/FSD until I'm out of my neighborhood and onto a major road.

Edit: Maybe when they talk about 'Autosteer on City Streets', this is what they're talking about? Or rather this in addition to left/right turns at intersections.

 

[Watts_Up]

Here is an example of the central camera not able to detect cars stopped on a freeway in a curb:

Tesla Autopilot Not Detecting Stopped Traffic on Highway​

 

[diplomat33]

So only for HW 3.0?

Yes.

Here is an example of the central camera not able to detect cars stopped on a freeway in a curb:

Tesla Autopilot Not Detecting Stopped Traffic on Highway​

That was from last year. Let's hope the AP software has improved since then. Maybe this new AP rewrite will fix this issue if it has not been fixed already.

 

[willow_hiller]

Here is an example of the central camera not able to detect cars stopped on a freeway in a curb

Also keep in mind, the dash-cam footage is only one of the three forward facing cameras. I don't think we can draw any conclusions about what the car can see by looking at that one camera view in isolation.

 

[willow_hiller]

I also just realized, here we are arguing over whether Tesla's goal is still beyond L2 based upon a single line changed on the order page, but this entire page still exists: Autopilot

"All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you."

And it's not just a vestigial page either. According to archive.org it was last updated on April 24, 2020.

 

[Knightshade]

I also just realized, here we are arguing over whether Tesla's goal is still beyond L2 based upon a single line changed on the order page, but this entire page still exists: Autopilot

"All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you."

Of course that's the same page that still says "All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. "

And that's been proven wrong at least 3 times now by Tesla themselves.

HW 2.0->HW2.5

HW2.x GPU to HW3

Adding front radar heating to Model Y

 

[diplomat33]

I also just realized, here we are arguing over whether Tesla's goal is still beyond L2 based upon a single line changed on the order page, but this entire page still exists: Autopilot

"All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you."

And it's not just a vestigial page either. According to archive.org it was last updated on April 24, 2020.

Well, I would say that is a forward looking statement. It is Tesla's goal for FSD in the future. So yes, we can say that Tesla still wants to achieve more than L2 at some point. What we have on the FSD order page is what FSD is now. So right now, FSD is L2.

 

[willow_hiller]

Of course that's the same page that still says "All new Tesla cars have the hardware needed in the future for full self-driving in almost all circumstances. "

And that's been proven wrong at least 3 times now by Tesla themselves.

HW 2.0->HW2.5

HW2.x GPU to HW3

Adding front radar heating to Model Y

Yep.

Just checking archive.org, that claim was made on the earliest archive date October 20, 2016: Autopilot

Well, I would say that is a forward looking statement. It is Tesla's goal for FSD in the future. So yes, we can say that Tesla still wants to achieve more than L2 at some point. What we have on the FSD order page is what FSD is now. So right now, FSD is L2.

I would agree with this. I've just seen a few messages in recent days claiming that Tesla is no longer aiming for L3 or higher while selling FSD based solely on the changed language on the order page. I think they are still aiming for L3 at least, but are just tempering expectations on the order page for what the car can do now.