With the amount of work to run the conduit and given the cutout is likely not the same in the gateway 2 it is simply not worth it for the little gain there is if you ask me and I'm one who was promised a free upgrade. In my case the gateway is on the outside of the house and they had to stucco around the conduit, but looking at the current specs the sensing is not worth the hassle especially if the max is 100A vs the current rated for 200A
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Gateway 2
- Thread starter af88
- Start date
I've a technical question on gateway installation. My understanding is that grid power needs to run through the gateway so it can isolate home PV systems and PWs from the grid during outages.
What else needs to run through the gateway? Does power from PV arrays, and from Powerwalls, also need to route through the Gateway?
Our installer's proposed setup - whole house backup with 2 PW2s - calls for the gateway to be installed outside next to the electric meter.
If all current from PWs and PVs also has to run all the way out there to the gateway and then all the way back to my mail electrical panel (in the garage), seems like a circuitous route, a lot of extra wiring and perhaps introduces unnecessary inefficiency/ energy loss?
Can anyone provide more background info on these installation details? Thanks much!
What else needs to run through the gateway? Does power from PV arrays, and from Powerwalls, also need to route through the Gateway?
Our installer's proposed setup - whole house backup with 2 PW2s - calls for the gateway to be installed outside next to the electric meter.
If all current from PWs and PVs also has to run all the way out there to the gateway and then all the way back to my mail electrical panel (in the garage), seems like a circuitous route, a lot of extra wiring and perhaps introduces unnecessary inefficiency/ energy loss?
Can anyone provide more background info on these installation details? Thanks much!
Think of the Gateway as a demarcation point. Loads are either "inside" the Gateway where they will be backed up, or "outside" where they will lose power if the grid goes down. The Powerwalls and solar inverters are necessarily on the "inside" but the exact location and which panel they are connected to doesn't matter that much.
In my case, all of my 240V loads were in the main meter combo panel while most of my household loads were in a 125A sub panel. During the Powerwall install, the Gateway and a Generation panel (200A bus) was installed next to the main panel. The breaker that was feeding the sub-panel was used to feed the Gateway and the feed to the sub-panel was re-routed to the backup side of the Gateway switch. The Generation panel was connected to the backup side of the Gateway switch as well. Some critical 120V loads were relocated from the main panel to the new Generation panel. The Solar was also relocated to the Generation panel. The Powerwalls were connected directly to the Generation panel.
Miimura, thanks for this explanation. In our case we will not have a subpanel as we're doing whole house backup (all loads in the main panel.) I know they did mention placing a generation panel, though I'm not sure exactly what will be placed on it.
In terms of the physical install, our main electrical panel (with all house loads), the Powerwalls, the generation panel and breakers for the solar will all be installed in close proximity - on our garage. The Gateway will be installed quite a distance away: on exterior wall on opposite side of the house next to the electric meter. I take it you don't see any issue with the gateway box being so far removed from the other components?
In terms of the physical install, our main electrical panel (with all house loads), the Powerwalls, the generation panel and breakers for the solar will all be installed in close proximity - on our garage. The Gateway will be installed quite a distance away: on exterior wall on opposite side of the house next to the electric meter. I take it you don't see any issue with the gateway box being so far removed from the other components?
Interesting question. I know AC power does not suffer power losses at near the rate of DC power. And this is why we use AC power instead of DC in homes. But the question of how much loss does AC suffer from running an longer than expected distance? This site has a calculator for that. When I tried it for 120v running 300 feet the voltage dropped 0.062% and the 120.0V dropped to 119.926V.
I wonder if the placement near the power box has to do with codes and safety issue. Such as 1st responders being able to shut down power in a fire or other issue.
On my home the gateway, inverters, and generation panel are all co-located with the power company box on the side of the house. The main load panel for the house is 30 feet away inside the garage.
Thanks jboy. Looks like voltage loss based on distance is not a significant worry for AC.
In our case, I think placement of the gateway outside while other components are inside was just an attempt to simplify installation for our particular conditions. Space inside our garage is limited. We have 300 amp service at our main box, but all our home loads can be handled by 200a. And it happens that to achieve that, the builders ran two adjacent 200a-capable wires from electric meter to our garage. So, installers will utilize one of those 200a lines to power the house panel from grid (swapping the 300a main breaker for a 200a one). That will leave the other existing 200a capable wire "free", which they'll use to power the gateway.
At least that's the way I understand their plan. Does that make sense?
In our case, I think placement of the gateway outside while other components are inside was just an attempt to simplify installation for our particular conditions. Space inside our garage is limited. We have 300 amp service at our main box, but all our home loads can be handled by 200a. And it happens that to achieve that, the builders ran two adjacent 200a-capable wires from electric meter to our garage. So, installers will utilize one of those 200a lines to power the house panel from grid (swapping the 300a main breaker for a 200a one). That will leave the other existing 200a capable wire "free", which they'll use to power the gateway.
At least that's the way I understand their plan. Does that make sense?
I don't see any problem. The most logical installation method will probably only add a couple of feet of wire if the Gateway is next to the meter box. They will just run one set of heavy wires from the meter to the Gateway and from the Gateway back to the meter box where it can be spliced to the long run to the main panel. Of course, they could do it the other way around too, putting the Gateway next to the main panel and all the other new equipment.
woferry
Member
The only thing I can think of is that the Gateway does need to measure the solar inverter current, so a pair of Current Transformers (CTs) will need to run to wherever they can get to clamp over the AC lines that run between your inverter(s) and whichever panel they tie into. I don't know what Tesla's limit would be for how long the Gateway CT wiring can run, hopefully that's pretty long, but they are sensitive low-voltage devices so there might be a point where if it's too long the signal is lost, or less accurate, or too susceptible to noise to work properly. I guess there practically has to be a limit to the length of the wiring that connects the Powerwalls to the Gateway also, though since that's RS485 as I understand it, that should be able to use quite long wires. I'm pretty sure the CTs would hit their limit before RS485 does.
I see the Neurio (what's used to read the CTs inside the Gateway) manual says it has to be within 4' (that's the length of the provided CTs), but I know Tesla does runs longer than this (mine might actually be 4', or perhaps 6/8'). I did find an extension on the web (Neurio CTE-10) that says not to extend beyond 50'. And of course that would be distance through the conduit, not straight-line.
I see the Neurio (what's used to read the CTs inside the Gateway) manual says it has to be within 4' (that's the length of the provided CTs), but I know Tesla does runs longer than this (mine might actually be 4', or perhaps 6/8'). I did find an extension on the web (Neurio CTE-10) that says not to extend beyond 50'. And of course that would be distance through the conduit, not straight-line.
Actually more curious about the data sheet. The stuff floating out there last year from GB states 100A on single phase. That won't work for most new homes unless you don't plan to do whole house backup.
Can you post the datasheet if it came with one. They might still be doing trials in HW like last year and hasn't made it to mainland US.
Thanks
Can you post the datasheet if it came with one. They might still be doing trials in HW like last year and hasn't made it to mainland US.
Thanks
zanary
Active Member
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