I've finally added a second charger on my 60amp breaker. Did a dual charge last night and worked like a charm.
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Gen3 Dual Charger Load Sharing
- Thread starter Ninja1000
- Start date
Ostrichsak
Well-Known Member
Gen 3 HPWC weren't designed to share a circuit. They each need their own breaker.
That’s what the manual says, but I wonder why? it Isn’t any safer in normal operations to have two breakers, just more expensive in terms of wiring. Is it just an artifact of the code prohibiting large electrical consumers from sharing a breaker, even if they load share? Does the code not allow wireless communications for load sharing? It’s probably that.
I think the OP means he has each on its own 60 amp circuit, and then doing "Power Sharing" in the application where you can set the maximum power across all devices. So if one car is plugged in, it would get the full 60. If 2 cars are plugged in, it gives 30 and 30, etc. Can have up to 6 wall connectors like that, talking to each other and load sharing.
Rather than the 2 60 amp breakers off the main panel, I personally would probably have done a 100-amp subpanel off the main breaker. Then hang the 2 Wall Connectors off 2 separate 60-amp breakers in the subpanel. Then "Power Share" between the 2 Wall Connectors. Then you could also hang additional Wall Connectors off the subpanel, up to a total of 6.
Rather than the 2 60 amp breakers off the main panel, I personally would probably have done a 100-amp subpanel off the main breaker. Then hang the 2 Wall Connectors off 2 separate 60-amp breakers in the subpanel. Then "Power Share" between the 2 Wall Connectors. Then you could also hang additional Wall Connectors off the subpanel, up to a total of 6.
You know way way WAAAAY more than I do on all this stuff. My guess is, its the wireless communication for load sharing. Gen2's have a communication wire (which I know that you are well aware of).
I seem to remember reading someone here say their inspector did not even want to accept a Gen 3 running at less than 48amp because its configured via a web page or something. Dont remember the thread, and its likely it was an overzealous inspector even if I could remember which thread, but I am guessing the wireless part of the communications might be the reason they want gen 3s to have its own breaker.
I think the explanation of why is because of the conditions of how you could set the amps on the Gen2 versus the Gen3. With the Gen2, ALL of them had to be running at the same amp level. You picked a level, and the controlling unit, and all of the dependent units and all of the wiring connections all had to match that one amp level. So since all of the wiring had to be the same rating level, you could just fasten them.
On the Gen3, you can to mix and match all kinds of different amp levels, and so you can use different wiring thickness if you want to save costs in some ways. So the breakers are to match what the rating of each one is set to.
So you can have one feeder circuit with a total 120A rating, and you can have several wall connectors at:
60A
60A
30A
30A
30A
30A
These can all work together to stay within the limit of the parent circuit, but you use smaller breakers and wire for the lower power ones.
Just asking a stupid question. There are two Teslas in the garage, a M3 and a MY. We have one (1) Gen 2 WC and, generally, don't run into trouble keeping the cars charged.
My understanding was that with a pair of Gen 2 WCs, it was possible to rig them up with a single 60A breaker, flip the right switches in both of them (no wi-fi setup), and they would happily share the 60A circuit with no further ado.
I had, I thought, heard rumors that the Gen 3 WC could work as above, but the posts before this one imply that one would have to have a pair of 60A circuits; the only coordination would be to limit the max house current to 48A. Is that right, or am I missing something?
My understanding was that with a pair of Gen 2 WCs, it was possible to rig them up with a single 60A breaker, flip the right switches in both of them (no wi-fi setup), and they would happily share the 60A circuit with no further ado.
I had, I thought, heard rumors that the Gen 3 WC could work as above, but the posts before this one imply that one would have to have a pair of 60A circuits; the only coordination would be to limit the max house current to 48A. Is that right, or am I missing something?
To clarify. Gen3 can share load of a single breaker, up to 6 Gen3 can share one load. But as per Tesla load sharing installation manuals, each charger still needs an individual breaker. In Ontario a disconnect is required at the charger, those two small boxes hooked up to each charger is a 60amp breaker that also acts as a disconnect close to the charger.
So basically I'm running a 60amp circuit to my garage, splitting my wiring to each small 60amp breaker boxes. I know it seems redundant but it's up to code and up to Tesla installation instructions. If I'd have a bigger panel in my house I would have ran a 100amp circuit to my garage but I couldn't.
At the moment I've programmed my load sharing to a maximum of 50amp, when I charge two cars at the same time, I can't charge more then 25amp per car. Last night both my cars where setup to charge at 35amp in the app. But since I was charging both cars at the same time, the app limited both cars to 25amp. Once one of the car was done charging, my second car then jumped to 35amp automatically for the remaining of the charge.
I might bring up my maximum load sharing current to 60amp, as per my main breaker, to charge two cars at 30amp each overnight, but still unsure. For some reason I don't like running a circuit at it's max capacity but that's just my OCD..lol
So basically I'm running a 60amp circuit to my garage, splitting my wiring to each small 60amp breaker boxes. I know it seems redundant but it's up to code and up to Tesla installation instructions. If I'd have a bigger panel in my house I would have ran a 100amp circuit to my garage but I couldn't.
At the moment I've programmed my load sharing to a maximum of 50amp, when I charge two cars at the same time, I can't charge more then 25amp per car. Last night both my cars where setup to charge at 35amp in the app. But since I was charging both cars at the same time, the app limited both cars to 25amp. Once one of the car was done charging, my second car then jumped to 35amp automatically for the remaining of the charge.
I might bring up my maximum load sharing current to 60amp, as per my main breaker, to charge two cars at 30amp each overnight, but still unsure. For some reason I don't like running a circuit at it's max capacity but that's just my OCD..lol
When using Gen3, you setup the max current as per you main circuit via the browser connection for all the Gen3 that will be sharing the main circuit. You can actually share 6 on one circuit. But all chargers need to be part of the load sharing group, this way any combination of charger current draw will be limited by you set max current that you've programmed when setting up load sharing via a browser connection. All 6 chargers can be setup by just communicating with one charger, SSID end number and password is required for each charger when setting it up.
Ontario ESA just acknowledged software locks and they are now OK. They just need to be labelled.
Is this a new rule for 60A breakers? The rule used to be for 60A appliances , not 48A appliances on 60A breakers. They since changed it to greater than 60A to match everywhere else.
Edit: wording.
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The installation instructions on the Tesla website for the Gen 3 Wall Connector says (and shows) that you need a separate breaker for each Connector if connected to a Main Panel. Or you can run single circuit from the Main Panel to a Sub Panel, then have separate breakers for each Wall Connector in the Sub Panel.
In no case does it show a single breaker out of the Main Panel then a split in the wire line to two different fused disconnect boxes. The Main Panel should go to a Sub Panel, then two circuits off the Sub Panel. Not a single run with split wires. How are the wires split between main panel and those two disconnect boxes? Are they just two sets of wire nutted together? I can't see how that would be up to code. Why not just put a Sub Panel between the Main Panel and the two Wall Connectors? Then run 2 60 amp breakers off the Sub Panel to the Wall Connectors.
Basically, wherever you "split the wiring", just drop a small sub panel there. Then run the main panel wire into the sub panel, and 2 breakers out to the wall connectors.
The wiring is split in a separate junction box using "Polaris IPL250-3B multi-tap insulated connector", you can't hookup three separate 6 AWG wires on a single "marrette" type twist connector. My installation is absolutely done to code, having an additional sub-panel just to split my circtuit is the same as using multi-tap connector in a junction box, it's approved. ESA also allows having two EVSE (Car Chargers) hooked up on a single circuit if the EVSA have current limiting software, which is the case for the Tesla Gen3 chargers.
I didn't post this information to get doubted on my electrical installation, I wanted to give information on how Gen3 Power Sharing worked as more and more people are getting a second EV and this question is asked.
In no case do I suggest anyone doing this themselves, always use an electrician if you don't know what you are doing and get a permit.
Tesla requires a 60amp breaker to run their chargers at max current output of 48amp when using a single charger.
Oops, I missed the most important part of what I was referring to.
I meant you don’t need a local disconnect switch unless you are running a 60A or greater appliance. These appliances are 48A. But even that changed to greater than 60A.
You absolutely need 60A breakers on 48A continuous current circuits.
That's not your OCD, that's the electrical code. You can't run a 60 amp continuous load on a 60 amp breaker. The 80% rule applies. 60 amp circuit, 48 amp load. 50 amp circuit, 40 amp load, etc.
Did you find that method of connecting Wall a connectors together in the Tesla Wall Connector manual? If you did and you passed your ESA inspection, all is good.
If that method isn’t in the Tesla Wall Connector manual, then it’s a CSA violation. ESA wouldn’t necessarily know that as it isn’t their jurisdiction.
fiehlsport
Tire Guy
It's not to code because the installation manual doesn't permit your install to use a single breaker and polaris connectors. Electricians don't read the manual often enough.
Gen2 wall connectors offered your method as a valid way of installation. Gen3 does not.
And why have a disconnect box under each unit?? This install is way more complicated looking than it needs to be.
Gen2 wall connectors offered your method as a valid way of installation. Gen3 does not.
And why have a disconnect box under each unit?? This install is way more complicated looking than it needs to be.
It's not a stupid question. The functionality does work basically the same way.
The "rig them up" part is what needs a different method. On the Gen2, you could just split and fasten the supply wires directly. On the Gen3, you can't. You have to treat it like it's a subpanel. You can put that same 60A feed into it, and then you breaker several wall connectors also with 60A if you want, but you configure them to share, and the operation is just like you have it with the Gen2 ones that you have.
All right. So, this feels a little weird, but bear with me here. Starting from the top:
- In the main breaker panel, there's a duplex 60A breaker that provides (at most) 48A of continuous load. Two hots, a safety ground, and maybe a neutral leave the breaker box.
- Now, on my Gen 2 WC, the two hots, neutral, and ground hit the WC and there it stops. If I add another Gen 2 WC, I bolt on another pair of hots, a neutral (not sure about the neutral, got to go dig out the manual), and a ground and connect that to the next Gen 2 WC in line.
- On the Gen 3 WC, the 60A service wire from the breaker panel shows up and goes into a sub-panel that is mounted next to or near the first Gen 3 WC. The sub-panel accepts that 60A service feed and connects said feed to two (2) each 60A breakers.
- Each of the 60A service feeds from those two (2) 60A breakers in the sub-panel then go to a Gen 3 WC.
Feels weird, somehow. But I guess in a Standard House it's not unusual for current to go through the Main Breaker in the main, then through innumerable breakers on each circuit, and so on.
And total current in the feed back to the main breaker panel never exceeds 48A, right?
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