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General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

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I think you misunderstood. I'm same as kbM3, non-owner, in CA, SF Bay Area, reservation made online on 1st day ~1/2hr before the unveil started. My estimate shows Apr-Jun, which is Q2. As far as I know by the time I ordered there are already >100K of orders, and majority of those are non-owners, I would imagine. Lets wildly guess if 1/2 of those are US orders, so maybe ~50K reservations in similar situations as kbM3 and I. I think what kbM3 is trying to say is if Tesla is ready to fulfill kbM3's and my orders, along with those 50K people, and promise delivery between Apr-Jun which is Q2, then there is almost no way Tesla won't exceed 200K in Q2.

When I reserved, it was almost the minute that the car was actually revealed on stage and the first count was show right about the same time. It was 130,000 just a few minutes after the actual reveal on stage. I remember, because I have been using this number as my rough position in line. So if you reserved during the day, I highly doubt there were as many as 100,000. You have to guess there were about 200 US locations at most and with a few hundred in line at each the line waiters can be many more then the first 10-20k?

There is no way that Tesla will not exceed 200k in Q2. Unless, they stop shipping cars in the US starting today. But that's not going to happen. I have seen a dozen estimates that all come in early April to hit 200,000. That would mean that they would need to delay a full quarters worth of deliveries. Just not seeing them do that.
 
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I assume the estimate you are referring to is for first production. Only a fraction of reservation holders are going to take first production, and I'm sure Tesla is well aware of those rough numbers.
If those people don't want the LR+PUP, the people behind them would. The bottom line is still, just counting MS/MX sales in US, Tesla will likely be at 180-190K US deliveries by the end of Q2, and they can potentially make 40K or more M3 in Q1/Q2. Where would Tesla deliver those 40K M3s if they were to try to stay below 200K by the end of Q2?
 
Only the 1st production (LR+PUP) shows Apr-Jun, for SR and AWD both show late 2018.

I still find it unlikely to stay under 200K in Q2 even if only 25K M3 are delivered in the US in Q1/Q2. I could be remembering wrong but my understanding is that Tesla is already close to 160K-170K US deliveries by the end of 2017. They're probably going to also deliver ~20K MS+MX in Q1/Q2 in the US, which would put them close to 180-190K without the M3 by the end of Q2.

I also pause at the idea that they could delivery 25-30K to Canada by the end of Q2. There has been no showroom activity, no trial-run and training on how to deliver/service the M3 in Canada that we know of. How likely that Tesla could just open the flood gate and jam 25K M3s into Canada in the next 4 months?

I spent a lot of time thinking about this last night, lols, and what you just shared about the timing of drivetrains offered to you makes me more encouraged that this is what Tesla is going for : ).

I say this because the Canadian updates I've seen reported do offer SR and LR dual motor "mid 2018", sooner than your US status.

The scenario I think might be going on is Tesla maxing out the existing production config (LR rear motor) for US deliveries in the immediate term... hence reaching further into US reservationists currently who want this one and only drivetrain offering, and consistent with your being offered that config ahead of Canadians. Then, in 2-3 months when dual motor (LR and SR) are ready, maxing those, along with LR rear motor, to Canada... consistent with the Canadians getting access to the dual motor (LR and SR) before you do, and consistent with the need for dual motor (and offering the SR) to come up with something like 25K to 30K Canadians ready to gobble up those 3s coming out of Fremont (i.e., one would think if you want to get a high percentage of Canadian reservation holders to configure, you need to offer dual motor and SR dual motor).

now, going through some remaining points you've brought up,

What I have seen here on TMC and elsewhere is that Tesla delivered between 159K and 160.5K vehicles to the US through the end of 2017 (including Roadsters). Let's call it 161K to be conservative, so Tesla can deliver just up to 39K in the first six months of 2017 so as not to cross 200K yet.

This scenario has about 25K 3s delivered to US customers. That leaves about 14K for S/X. 1) I think Tesla will produce about 48K S/X (they produced about 22-23K last quarter). About 25K of those would normally go to international deliveries. So Tesla would have about 23K vehicles normally for US, and want to deliver only about 14K. I see the 9K almost entirely going to zeroing out all outstanding international orders (roughly 4K per month, so using every last bit of what I believe generally has been a 1-2 month waiting list), and worldwide inventory vehicles (not custom ordered). I see some secondary places the 9K could also go (such as US custom orders built but not delivered, test drive and loaner cars worldwide, etc.).

Finally as to being ready for Canada. In this scenario, Canadian deliveries would be basically May and June Model 3 production. I don't find it unreasonable that between now and May they would have their stores and service centers ready to handle this.

fwiw, I think the biggest risk in this plan is whether they can count on having the dual motor ready in time to leverage the opportunity to send these cars to Canada. If that doesn't happen... you do a halfway move to Canada that does not push out 200K into Q3 and actually means less US reservationists getting their tax credits.

I don't know if Tesla is doing this or not. If we find out that virtually all Canadian orders have been moved up to "mid-2018," that would be very interesting!
 
You don’t understand the severity of the situation. Not only has Tesla lost out on several billions of dollars of Model 3 revenue (remember the “100,000 to 200,000 units in 2H17?”), but the two-quarter delay also pushes back ALL of Tesla’s upcoming products: Semi, Y, Solar Roof, Powerwall, Powerpack, new Gigafactories, and other. Did you catch the part about Solar Roof in the letter? Musk’s preoccupation with SpaceX in the last six months will have cost TSLA shareholders tens of billions of dollars in lost opportunity, as potential customers buy other cars, crossovers, trucks, non-solar roofs etc., while hundreds of thousands of Model 3 reservations holders will lose out on the $7,500 federal tax credit.

Any other CEO would have been fired over this, but we are about to award him with a handsome comp plan...

Hoping for more clarity on whether people agree or disagree with this post. I see three different reactions.
 
When I reserved, it was almost the minute that the car was actually revealed on stage and the first count was show right about the same time. It was 130,000 just a few minutes after the actual reveal on stage. I remember, because I have been using this number as my rough position in line. So if you reserved during the day, I highly doubt there were as many as 100,000. You have to guess there were about 200 US locations at most and with a few hundred in line at each the line waiters can be many more then the first 10-20k?

There is no way that Tesla will not exceed 200k in Q2. Unless, they stop shipping cars in the US starting today. But that's not going to happen. I have seen a dozen estimates that all come in early April to hit 200,000. That would mean that they would need to delay a full quarters worth of deliveries. Just not seeing them do that.
I reserved ~1/2 hr before the unveil started. At that point I think they showed a graphics of 115K reservations, that's why I was guessing that I'm ~100K in the queue.

I agree there is almost no way Tesla can push the 200K milestone past Q2 into Q3.
 
Hoping for more clarity on whether people agree or disagree with this post. I see three different reactions.

currently the post has 21 disagrees, 1 like, and 1 funny... I think the tribe has spoken. Not that you should choose your view based on others voting your view for you, but, as to the question you asked, I think the answer has been already offered.
 
It is interesting to look at who is being invited, maybe we can figure something out here. Last I'd seen no non-owners had been invited... when were you invited? Could you share what exactly is indicated for your delivery estimate? Did you reserve on that first day?
No non owners that I am aware of have been invited, I have not. I just have a delivery estimate of Apr.-Jun.
 
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I spent a lot of time thinking about this last night, lols, and what you just shared about the timing of drivetrains offered to you makes me more encouraged that this is what Tesla is going for : ).

I say this because the Canadian updates I've seen reported do offer SR and LR dual motor "mid 2018", sooner than your US status.

The scenario I think might be going on is Tesla maxing out the existing production config (LR rear motor) for US deliveries in the immediate term... hence reaching further into US reservationists currently who want this one and only drivetrain offering, and consistent with your being offered that config ahead of Canadians. Then, in 2-3 months when dual motor (LR and SR) are ready, maxing those, along with LR rear motor, to Canada... consistent with the Canadians getting access to the dual motor (LR and SR) before you do, and consistent with the need for dual motor (and offering the SR) to come up with something like 25K to 30K Canadians ready to gobble up those 3s coming out of Fremont (i.e., one would think if you want to get a high percentage of Canadian reservation holders to configure, you need to offer dual motor and SR dual motor).

now, going through some remaining points you've brought up,

What I have seen here on TMC and elsewhere is that Tesla delivered between 159K and 160.5K vehicles to the US through the end of 2017 (including Roadsters). Let's call it 161K to be conservative, so Tesla can deliver just up to 39K in the first six months of 2017 so as not to cross 200K yet.

This scenario has about 25K 3s delivered to US customers. That leaves about 14K for S/X. 1) I think Tesla will produce about 48K S/X (they produced about 22-23K last quarter). About 25K of those would normally go to international deliveries. So Tesla would have about 23K vehicles normally for US, and want to deliver only about 14K. I see the 9K almost entirely going to zeroing out all outstanding international orders (roughly 4K per month, so using every last bit of what I believe generally has been a 1-2 month waiting list), and worldwide inventory vehicles (not custom ordered). I see some secondary places the 9K could also go (such as US custom orders built but not delivered, test drive and loaner cars worldwide, etc.).

Finally as to being ready for Canada. In this scenario, Canadian deliveries would be basically May and June Model 3 production. I don't find it unreasonable that between now and May they would have their stores and service centers ready to handle this.

fwiw, I think the biggest risk in this plan is whether they can count on having the dual motor ready in time to leverage the opportunity to send these cars to Canada. If that doesn't happen... you do a halfway move to Canada that does not push out 200K into Q3 and actually means less US reservationists getting their tax credits.

I don't know if Tesla is doing this or not. If we find out that virtually all Canadian orders have been moved up to "mid-2018," that would be very interesting!
So your scenario is that there are only ~25k non owner U.S. pre-reveal reservationists that want first production?
 
This has been a very bipolar week. Just a few days ago, the mood was euphoria after the successful Falcon Heavy launch, dual booster landing, and voyage of Roadster and Starman to beyond Mars. Then the conference call happened and many people became furious or depressed about Model 3.

I'm wondering about the "beyond Mars"; isn't it expected to take months just to get TO Mars?
 
No non owners that I am aware of have been invited, I have not. I just have a delivery estimate of Apr.-Jun.

FWIW, I'm a Colorado line-waiter whose first production estimate shows Mar-May. There are a lot of us in this same boat, plus a ton more in Apr-June. I agree with the thought process that there's no realistic way for Tesla to push the 200k target to Q3. Or rather, that to do so would cause more problems than it's worth.
 
So your scenario is that there are only ~25k non owner pre-reveal reservationists that want first production?

to be clear, my scenario, is that as many as 50K-60K pre-reveal US reservationists (whether that represents all pre-reveal US, or close to all) could be invited to configure and still result in 30K or less whose choice is the initial configuration: LR, PUP, rear motor. what's more, will anyone be shocked if a substantial number of people told that their window is April-June end up being July deliveries?

you'll see in my past posts on this, I'm figuring about 25K US deliveries, about 5K built, but not delivered, spread among Fremont long existing vehicle lot capacity, two new very large delivery facilities in California already in use, and the service centers and stores around the country. I think 5K is pushing the limit of existing space Tesla has for an inventory of produced 3s.
 
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If those people don't want the LR+PUP, the people behind them would. The bottom line is still, just counting MS/MX sales in US, Tesla will likely be at 180-190K US deliveries by the end of Q2, and they can potentially make 40K or more M3 in Q1/Q2. Where would Tesla deliver those 40K M3s if they were to try to stay below 200K by the end of Q2?
There are actually several Norwegians that haven't bought their goverment mandated Tesla yet, just saying....
Seriously I dare guess that tiny Norway can propably take 2-3 full boatloads of Model 3's without totally saturating the market. So around 15k the first 3 months.

Cobos
 
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