General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[Reciprocity]

When I see something on FB about EVs, inevitably I have to read the comments and there’s always a comment saying ‘you can’t go from x to y because it will take z time with an EV’. When I answer with a link to abrp that clearly shows their statement is not true, I never get an answer back. Another example that it is very difficult to change somebody’s mind.

The easiest way to change their minds is for family or a friend to give them a ride in a Tesla. Then their preconceived notions will melt away.

 

[MacRocket]

Sorry @ggr but I am @pissed. You can ban me if you want. But you people need to get off your collective arses and get on twitter. You are living in a bubble/echo chamber where most of the opinions are just bouncing around the bubble. TMC is awesome and you should never stop coming here and supporting the advertisers. But you people need get on twitter and to start defending the honor of reality and facts. Forget Tesla, forget EVs, just get on Twitter and counter the crap storm that is $TSLA. These people want Tesla dead. Elon was right. They want Fremont swallowed up by an earthquake and worse. They lie for a living and their goal is nothing more then to make it impossible for Tesla to achieve their mission. Granted, not everyone agrees the mission is needed, but everyone likes clean air and breathing.

There are a small group of us, but we cannot counter all the FUD without you. There are a lot of people on this forum that are much smarter then I am. More creative and way more knowledgeable about all things EV, Solar and Renewables. I know, because I learned most of what I know here. So get off your arses and get on Twitter.. specifically TweetDeck and do a search for $tsla. Add it as a column and commence to countering the FUD with facts! Always facts! Most of the time, FUDsters just post a random series of cuss words and some lies about Tesla with no facts. Simply ask them for Proof. Always include $TSLA in your tweets. Feel free to follow @Rec1pr0city and checkout my timeline for some tips. There are also people like @ValueAnalyst1 and @barkshmemgol (sp) who both inspired me to fight the FUD. In just the last few weeks we have added many soldiers to our ranks, but we need more. Its critical to counter FUD with facts and call them to account. Require them to provide proof and hound them to the ends of the earth to provide that proof. Most of the time they are passing along opinions as facts and deceiving many investors who are at every increasing numbers, increasing their short positions. These poor fools do not know what they are doing. As we all know, its a bad idea to bet against Elon. Not because he is some mythical creature but because he is right.

I love what you are doing Reciprocity and will support you 100%.
I haven’t had a twitter account for long but I now follow Rec1pr0city and ValueAnalyst on twitter, it’s fun.

Up until now I have just been liking but today I jumped in with some tweets against the FUD and in support of our TMC troops.
I must say it felt sooo good to finally do something positive.
You should all give it a try, you will go to sleep happy if you do.

 

[MacRocket]

I respect and thank those willing to spend the time and energy fighting the FUD but I personally don't think it helps much, if at all. I also don't do social media as I've said before. I do have a twitter account and follow a few people but I have never tweeted. I learned long ago I can't change people's minds for them, it's takes being hit over the head over and over by reality before they even start to consider it.

Who said
“ The Pen is Mightier than the
Sword”.
I think they were right.

 

[NicoV]

The easiest way to change their minds is for family or a friend to give them a ride in a Tesla. Then their preconceived notions will melt away.

I already do that, inluding going on holiday with my Tesla thousand miles from home to demonstrate it is possible. But that is not possible for a rondom stranger on FB.

 

[Reciprocity]

I respect and thank those willing to spend the time and energy fighting the FUD but I personally don't think it helps much, if at all. I also don't do social media as I've said before. I do have a twitter account and follow a few people but I have never tweeted. I learned long ago I can't change people's minds for them, it's takes being hit over the head over and over by reality before they even start to consider it.

The point is but to change the fudsters mind. It's to counter the negativity and lack of facts or flat out lies. It's people reading those tweets and believing them. Most fudsters don't have many followers, they rely on the popularity of $tsla to spreed miss information. If no one is there to counter balance the filth with facts, innocent readers get bad info and make bad investing decision that impact is all.

 

[mongo]

So in the land of FUD and shade, "Is there such a thing as an ethical electric car?"
Carmakers and big tech struggle to keep batteries free from child labor
Which references the same 2016 Amnesty International report as this 2016 article:
Several automakers and battery makers accused of using cobalt sourced by child labor in Congo
The Amnesty report leaves Tesla out of the Cobalt issue due to getting batteries from Panasonic (who gets Cobalt from the Philippines). Slightly muddying the waters is Tesla later getting cells from Samsung (Hornsdale) along with a potential agreement (in 2015) with LG Chem (which I don't think went anywhere).
Earlier this year, Tesla was in talks to secure another non-DRC source of Cobalt.
Tesla Has Found Yet Another Safe Haven For Cobalt Mining

Insert snarky comment here...

 

[JRP3]

I have nothing against this guy, however, I'm puzzled about the excitement. What little I've seen of him appears to be little more than a Tesla fan trolling TMC and expressing our general sentiments elsewhere.

And the downside is? At least Gali is informed and should be able to ask a relevant question, unlike most.

 

[Reciprocity]

I am not calling out Mongo here, because I love me some Mongo. But if you look at your profile and you have more then a 1,000 posts on this forum and you dont have time to do 10 tweets a day to fight the FUD in public, then you have really bad time management skills. Mongo, you have 3,219 posts in 1 year. You are very smart and very on point. Please take your skills to twitter. I beg you.

Mongo is just one example of someone who is clearly smarter and types faster then me. We need your help on Twitter. TweetDeck -> Search for $TSLA -> add as column -> See FUD, counter FUD with Facts, always facts.

Edit: dont forget to follow @Rec1pr0city and include $TSLA in every tweet. Also follow @valueanalyst1 I believe for more, eloquent examples.

 

[aubreymcfato]

Tesla sold 719 cars in Norway, almost 10x the 75 cars the sold in April 2017.
It even surpassed December 2016, that was the last month of the year...
Even if we account for the delay in March 2018 (Musk asked explicitly not tu rush deliveries) we got 1400+700 in two months, which is definitely not bad.
We'll see how May goes, but I expect a great Q2 in Norway (maybe few Model 3 as well?).

 

[Yggdrasill]

We'll see how May goes, but I expect a great Q2 in Norway (maybe few Model 3 as well?).

Definitely not Model 3 customer cars, and I doubt any showroom cars will show up, either. My guess is we won't see Model 3 in Norway until Q4.

 

[Spidy]

Finally, looking at the Fast-Charging protocols race, the 43kW AC of the Renault Zoe has only 3% share, the Tesla SC standard has 10% of PEV sales, Chademo has 13% and now the juiciest pieces of information...

...There has been a lot of talk regarding the supremacy of CCS over the remaining fast-charging standards, and that we should ditch everything else, but the truth is that at 8% share of sales, it is not only behind Chademo, but also behind the proprietary Tesla SC standard. And that's before mentioning the elephant in the room, GB/T. The Chinese standard has 14% of all sales...Making it the Best Selling standard in 2018.

EV Sales: Global Top 10 March 2018

Top 10 PEV Cars in Global Sales in Link

You have to look at countries. Some cars are China only and lot of Chademo is Japan. Both not relevant for the US or Europe. And Europe also has less Teslas.

 

[scaesare]

I am not calling out Mongo here.

Well, that's exactly what you did.

I'm not speaking for anybody but myself, but I choose to participate on certain media platforms and not others for specific reasons. I choose to engage in interesting conversations on some topics, and to attempt to be a torch-bearer for others.

I'd suggest sticking to general invitations in public (and perhaps personal invitations in private), and refrain from goading anyone in to either adopting your fight or social networking venue of choice for doing so.

Maybe this forum needs an "Activism" subforum.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

You have to look at countries. Some cars are China only and lot of Chademo is Japan. Both not relevant for the US or Europe. And Europe also has less Teslas.

Huh?

2018Q1 PEV sales in Europe:
#1 Zoe 8562 (AC)
#2 Leaf 8171 (CHAdeMO)
#3 BMW i3 5703 (CCS)
#4 VW e-Golf 5159 (CCS)
#5 Outlander PHEV 4756 (CHAdeMO)
#6 Model S 3824 (Tesla)
#9 Smart fortwo ED 2620 (AC)
#10 Ioniq EV 2553 (CCS)
#14 Model X 2315 (Tesla)

CCS 13,415
CHAdeMO 12,927*
AC 11,182
Tesla 6,139

* In March there were over 6,000 Nissan Leafs sold. If sales remained at March rates the Leaf by itself would see CHAdeMO clearly outselling everything else.

 

[mongo]

But if you look at your profile and you have more then a 1,000 posts on this forum and you dont have time to do 10 tweets a day to fight the FUD in public, then you have really bad time management skills.

FTFY. Seriously, though, at 3k posts in one year, I spend way too much time on-line as it is. I've focused on direct factual issues/ engineering interpretation and helping spread useful information/ theoretical design. I'll admit to getting worn out pushing back on the seemingly-professional FUDsters.

I did make an account and post on the LA Times article last night.

 

[scaesare]

I'd love to understand these a bit more.

How exactly do rising gas prices impact Tesla?

A rudimentary analysis indicates that the average American spent $1400 on gasoline in 2016, and that consumption went down in 2017. Even if gas prices doubled, do you really think that an additional $1400 in annual spend is going to prompt the purchase of a $50k+ car?

I just don't think ordinary Americans are evaluating car purchases while at the gas pump.

I don't know that I'm average...as I built a TCO spreadsheet for all of my vehicles, as well as a model for the S before I purchased.

But at the time (2013) gas was edging close to $3.50/gal. It's heading towards $3 already around here. I suspect those prices would represent something like 35-50% more that the that 2016 number. I'd bet those same folks may be looking at spending $2000-2500 if the upward trend continues.

So for those who are the type who consider overall TCO, that's not insignificant. Many people will finance a $50K car for 6 years. That could be $12-15K for fuel over the course of the loan. More if they keep the car longer. That's in the neighborhood of 25% of the cost of the car, or more.

Now, charging costs are a non-zero amount... but for many folks it's likely to be less than 20% of fuel costs... and many have options at the workplace, etc.. to offset it further.

 

[mongo]

Well, that's exactly what you did.

I'm not speaking for anybody but myself, but I choose to participate on certain media platforms and not others for specific reasons. I choose to engage in interesting conversations on some topics, and to attempt to be a torch-bearer for others.

I'd suggest sticking to general invitations in public (and perhaps personal invitations in private), and refrain from goading anyone in to either adopting your fight or social networking venue of choice for doing so.

Maybe this forum needs an "Activism" subforum.

I was thinking "FUD Fighters", where succinct rebuttals could be posted for common wrong-things. Copy paste is a lot less work. Would probably need to be a wiki though...

 

[ValueAnalyst]

18 Twitter accounts to follow for unique insight: ValueAnalyst on Twitter

 

[JRP3]

Roadster and Semi's sighting

New Tesla Roadster, Semi Show Up In Leaked Photo - HybridCars.com

 

[gene]

The easiest way to change their minds is for family or a friend to give them a ride in a Tesla. Then their preconceived notions will melt away.

I wish I had time to be an Uber driver in my Model 3, that would convince a lot of people.

 

[ggr]

... along with a potential agreement (in 2015) with LG Chem (which I don't think went anywhere).

I believe the cells in the Roadster upgrade (Roadster 3.0, not the new one) were sourced from LG Chem. They are not aging well. See 3.0 Battery Longevity

In my entire fanboi existence, this is the only money I've spent with Tesla that I feel was a bad decision.