General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

[skitown]

You might be over-projecting your personal preference onto other people, just raising that as a possibility. I used to have a subscription to Car and Driver for years, but gradually over the last 5 years or so I really start to get bored, then annoyed whenever they go on and on about engine notes. By the time they started pimping highend luxury sedans that can "tune" their engine noise to make it sound like a V8 from a turbo 4, that was the last straw for me. I unsubscribed shortly after the engine noise engineering became a regular topic on C&D.

I've been watching the NBA playoffs online. I rarely watch TV except in this manner once in a while. I find all the car ads quite hilarious and pathetic. There has been all this effort to make their cars quieter on the inside over the years - so in the ads it's a "visceral purring/revving" sound on the inside, and then they switch to an outside view where the car is revving and screaming like a domestic dispute, then back inside where it's quiet. Rinse and repeat. What's the point of making it quiet on the inside if it's such an "awesome" sound? I don't want to hear that racket on the outside of your car. It's just noise pollution, plain and simple. Just like your exhaust is air pollution. I say if it's such a selling point; own it and pump the same noise and air pollution inside the cabin as outside. That's my bar for whether something is pollution. If it's not pollution, pump it inside your car.

 

[Skryll]

How in the world do they end up with 330wh/mi? Are they flooring the car uphill?

Seriously. You would have to break federal law on the freeway to get to those numbers. Or so I have heard.

 

[Reality]

You might be over-projecting your personal preference onto other people, just raising that as a possibility. I used to have a subscription to Car and Driver for years, but gradually over the last 5 years or so I really start to get bored, then annoyed whenever they go on and on about engine notes. By the time they started pimping highend luxury sedans that can "tune" their engine noise to make it sound like a V8 from a turbo 4, that was the last straw for me. I unsubscribed shortly after the engine noise engineering became a regular topic on C&D.

BTW, I thought all the shorts hate Tesla because they are "all sizzle and no steak". Do you realize how appropriate that saying fits engine noise?

im saying the speed and silence are awesome, but its not a competitive advantage. It's a quality of EV's if anything Tesla is terrible at it relative to other car companies because they can't build a solid upper half of a car (altho the lower half is very good, as the reviews show)

 

[gene]

Seriously. You would have to break federal law on the freeway to get to those numbers. Or so I have heard.

I find 330 wh/mile pretty much impossible. I betja' they got 230, someone miss wrote it at 330 and then the high consumption FUD started. Reminds me of that guy Broder from the NY Times back in 2013.

 

[mongo]

I find 330 wh/mile pretty much impossible. I betja' they got 230, someone miss wrote it at 330 and then the high consumption FUD started. Reminds me of that guy Broder from the NY Times back in 2013.

Sat still with A/C or heater running filling out paperwork for 20 minutes, then started driving...

 

[skitown]

im saying the speed and silence are awesome, but its not a competitive advantage. It's a quality of EV's if anything Tesla is terrible at it relative to other car companies because they can't build a solid upper half of a car (altho the lower half is very good, as the reviews show)

It doesn't matter if their "upper half" isn't as good as traditional manufacturers upper half; yet (as you state). Add it all up, and Teslas blow their competition out of the water right now. I've owned two and have a 3rd on the way. Maybe in the magical year of 2020 or whatever once the traditional manufacturers decide they really want to cannibalize all of their cash cow product profits and spend a ton of money on their own CAPEX and start cranking out Tesla JOINERS (not killers), then I'll be impressed. Not scared, impressed; as this is Tesla's mission after all. Regardless, there's no easy path for those guys.

 

[adiggs]

I find 330 wh/mile pretty much impossible. I betja' they got 230, someone miss wrote it at 330 and then the high consumption FUD started. Reminds me of that guy Broder from the NY Times back in 2013.

Or maybe they've been driving it over the winter in rain and snow. I can't speak for Model 3 results, but I know I've been seeing more like low 500's than mid 300's in my Model X over the winter. Especially on short drives with lots of pack heating and cabin heating for a 15 minute drive, followed by a day long cold soak to make sure I need to crank up the pack and cabin heat again when I drive home.

My clue has been the consistent regen limitation when I start driving due to the pack being colder.


With summer arriving, I'm back into the 300's.

 

[ValueAnalyst]

My favorite poll on which all bears and bulls think I'm nuts: stock buybacks.

Twitter

 

[colettimj]

I find 330 wh/mile pretty much impossible. I betja' they got 230, someone miss wrote it at 330 and then the high consumption FUD started. Reminds me of that guy Broder from the NY Times back in 2013.

Hmmm, Teslafi tells me I got 263 Wh/Mile on a 13 mile drive yesterday. Actually, it was my 19 year old son and we did multiple "launches" from red lights, 0-45 mph. This first set of tires isn't going to last.

 

[adiggs]

... This first set of tires isn't going to last.

Welcome to Tesla ownership

 

[bdy0627]

How's this title for an attempted punch to the gut. I see that they neglected to mention that CR still preferred the model 3 over a BMW M3.

https://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports-says-it-found-big-flaws-with-the-tesla-1826198783

 

[bdy0627]

Or maybe they've been driving it over the winter in rain and snow. I can't speak for Model 3 results, but I know I've been seeing more like low 500's than mid 300's in my Model X over the winter. Especially on short drives with lots of pack heating and cabin heating for a 15 minute drive, followed by a day long cold soak to make sure I need to crank up the pack and cabin heat again when I drive home.

My clue has been the consistent regen limitation when I start driving due to the pack being colder.


With summer arriving, I'm back into the 300's.

This must have something to do with it. Up here in the frozen tundra of Wisconsin, I tend to see 375ish in my model S due to colder temps. I thought there must be something wrong since many others were reporting 275ish with the S, until I realized those people were in much warmer climates.

 

[mongo]

This must have something to do with it. Up here in the frozen tundra of Wisconsin, I tend to see 375ish in my model S due to colder temps. I thought there must be something wrong since many others were reporting 275ish with the S, until I realized those people were in much warmer climates.

Sounds like a 6kW heater to me.

 

[dc_h]

oh my god after all these bull I have to reach the conclusion that it's us against the world. What a load of @#$%! I am routinely drive like 80 on high way and getting 235wh per mile.

Will be interesting if Tesla would release logs if any reports are wildly inaccurate? Minor mistakes probably not.

 

[sundaymorning]

How's this title for an attempted punch to the gut. I see that they neglected to mention that CR still preferred the model 3 over a BMW M3.

Did CR really say this? I don’t ever read/buy anything from CR, just wanted to double check.

 

[Reciprocity]

Every bear knows that EVs, in general, are more fun and a seemingly better drive. I am not challenging that.


The irony is this is why Tesla is completely dead in the water. The ONLY thing about them that makes them appealing, is going to be the same, if not better in every other high performance EV on the market. Only the competition is better capitalized, more experienced, and less debt laden than Tesla. Oh most will have the full FIT credit too.


EV's are cool, they are fun to drive. They make ICE seem antiquated. That is simply because the release of stored energy can be done instantaneously, whereas ICE engines have to produce the energy as well.


The speed and silence of a Tesla is actually not a competitive advantage at all, I think most bulls dont realize/understand that.

Yeah, traditional autos are all the sudden going to make fun fast cars that get 3+ x the milage. Because up until today, they had no real good reason to compete with each other. Little ol Tesla is going to make them invest hundreds of billions of dollars because they are so innovative they could just crush Tesla by releasing cars that are light years ahead of anything they already have on the road. They were just patiently waiting for tiny Tesla to come along and offend them enough to get them to do it. Daimler never wanted to hurt BMW and VW never wanted to crush anyone, I mean they make the beetle. Porsche is happy every time a P100D smokes their million dollar hyper car. It's all fun and games until Tesla comes out with an affordable car. Then it's time to get serious.

What a joke. Traditional autos have a serious problem. The better the EVs they make, the worse their business will suffer. This is because people will opt for the loss making EV over the profitable ice version. So they really can't even try to catch up to Tesla without putting themselves out of business. They are really in bad shape. Tesla is destroying their top margin market share while their only hope is to incinerate cash and profits to catch up. Good luck chumps.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I predict that TMC will be overrun by crazy people if Model 3 becomes a success and mainstream investors start pouring in.

I may just quit the forum at that point.

People seem to think I'm joking, but the reality is that despite my repeated warnings to the site owners, little has been done to curtail bad behavior and chronic trolls. The latest examples can be found here: CR full test of Model 3 - falls short on recommendation

If it's bad now, it's going to be a %$@!storm when every Tom, Dick, and Harry thinks they can make a buck on TSLA. What happened with Cryptocurrency at the end of last year is a harbinger that nobody should ignore. Either clamp down hard now, or get flattened like a pancake.

 

[bdy0627]

Did CR really say this? I don’t ever read/buy anything from CR, just wanted to double check.

Just went back to find the quote and realized it was from the Edmunds article not the CR one. Interestingly, they praise the brakes here.
Monthly Update for April 2018 - 2017 Tesla Model 3 Long-Term Road Test
Here's the paragraph on it:

 

[TrendTrader007]

Every bear knows that EVs, in general, are more fun and a seemingly better drive. I am not challenging that.


The irony is this is why Tesla is completely dead in the water. The ONLY thing about them that makes them appealing, is going to be the same, if not better in every other high performance EV on the market. Only the competition is better capitalized, more experienced, and less debt laden than Tesla. Oh most will have the full FIT credit too.


EV's are cool, they are fun to drive. They make ICE seem antiquated. That is simply because the release of stored energy can be done instantaneously, whereas ICE engines have to produce the energy as well.


The speed and silence of a Tesla is actually not a competitive advantage at all, I think most bulls dont realize/understand that.

I certainly hope you are betting on your convictions. if so, I love the fact that I am on the opposite side of the trade
everyone bearish on AAPL was convinced that competition will eat their lunch and produce a better /cheaper iPhone
they are still waiting

 

[AZRI11]

Lets see how a short would handle Space X.

They are reusing rockets ?
MY GOD they must be losing so much money.
Everybody else just throws them away !

SpaceX would not be in existence if it went public a decade ago. Bankwuptcy.