GM Chevy Volt

[gnelson]

I bought a 2014 Volt in November 2013. I would have purchased a S40 if that choice had been an option. The 2014 Volt has enough battery range for almost all circumstances required for a second car. A S40 would have met those requirements as well with a reasonable price differential. The price differential between the Volt and the S65 was too great for a second car.

I can't find a practical way to drive my P85+ from Houston to TMC Connect, but I could drive the Volt.

 

[ggies07]

According to GM the current $35k Volt with a fully charged battery gives you 38 miles of range and a full tank of gas powering the generator provides an additional 380 miles for a total 418 miles.

The new $30k Volt will give a total of less than 300 miles or so it is believed.

Given an almost $5k retail price cut and a smaller battery I don't see how they will be able to cut weight enough to still offer 38 miles of range from the battery alone.

Cutting weight is expensive. They have already harvested the low lying fruit. Ditto for aerodynamics.

I'm still confused. So they are going to make a smaller battery, with less than 38 miles, for $5,000 cheaper? Who would want that?

We all know when the Roadster came out, it got Bob Lutz saying why can't GM build something like that so they created the Volt. That was in 2008, so you are telling me from 2008-2015/6/7 that the next step is a smaller battery with gas? They don't seem to understand what's going on. If GM wants to be "that" company that only sells hybrids, ok, but what a waste.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'm still confused. So they are going to make a smaller battery, with less than 38 miles, for $5,000 cheaper? Who would want that?

We all know when the Roadster came out, it got Bob Lutz saying why can't GM build something like that so they created the Volt. That was in 2008, so you are telling me from 2008-2015/6/7 that the next step is a smaller battery with gas? They don't seem to understand what's going on. If GM wants to be "that" company that only sells hybrids, ok, but what a waste.

I'm still confused. So they are going to make a smaller battery, with less than 38 miles, for $5,000 cheaper? Who would want that?

We all know when the Roadster came out, it got Bob Lutz saying why can't GM build something like that so they created the Volt. That was in 2008, so you are telling me from 2008-2015/6/7 that the next step is a smaller battery with gas? They don't seem to understand what's going on. If GM wants to be "that" company that only sells hybrids, ok, but what a waste.

GM hasn't really said anything. We've heard 20, we've heard 50 to 60. What we've consistently heard is: it needs to be cheaper.

I don't think they can really cut the battery much at all, because the "EREV" design requires a full-performance car. Sure, cutting the battery capacity saves some money, but as costs lower the savings diminish and negatively affects the car's performance and desirability. While lighter weight helps increase range, a smaller capacity would see range increasingly affected by climate control use.

They could save on inverter and motor by reducing specs, but I really think the current position acts as a great hedge on battery price as the motor and inverter are capable enough for a BEV (the Spark EV motor is basically the same capability as the Volt's motor and I think it will be the Volt 2.0 motor).

I think that the smart thing to do would be a key minimum target of 40 miles AER on the EPA and also focus on:
- cost reductions
- weight reduction
I think they will naturally switch to a newer, more efficient engine and that would give them an opportunity to lower displacement and weight.

If the overall result means they can reduce capacity a bit then great, but I'd really like them to offer a heat pump option.
- Heat pumps are essential for real BEVs, so it's a good hedge to be BEV ready
- The ERDTT Very Cold setting has the engine run under 15*F anyway.
- A heat pump would help the car's EV appeal in mild or cold climates.
- Heat pumps are, reportedly, quick at heating the car.

 

[Skotty]

A reduced electric range Volt would not appeal to me, but it would give GM a closer competitor to all the other PHEVs on the market that only get 15-20 miles electric and position the larger battery Volt more clearly as something more. I'm looking forward to getting a Tesla some day (or a competing car, of which there are none), but I just can't do it yet due to the high cost and range issues (range issue goes away with further Supercharger build out). Until then, I'll stick with my Volt. I don't see buying another PHEV unless it has 60+ miles AER.

 

[Dave EV]

I'm still confused. So they are going to make a smaller battery, with less than 38 miles, for $5,000 cheaper? Who would want that?

Look at how many Prius plug-ins, C-MAX Energis and Fusion Energis are sold. Now imagine how many more they'd sell if those cars were another couple thousand dollars cheaper.

The biggest drawback of a smaller battery is that it also qualifies for less of a federal tax credit (and in some cases, state rebates/credits), but those credits won't last forever. In the above cases, all cars sell for about the same amount after tax credits/rebates.

 

[RobStark]

I'm still confused. So they are going to make a smaller battery, with less than 38 miles, for $5,000 cheaper? Who would want that?

We all know when the Roadster came out, it got Bob Lutz saying why can't GM build something like that so they created the Volt. That was in 2008, so you are telling me from 2008-2015/6/7 that the next step is a smaller battery with gas? They don't seem to understand what's going on. If GM wants to be "that" company that only sells hybrids, ok, but what a waste.

They are looking at the plug-in hybrids Prius, Fusion, and Accord sales grow and Volt go down slightly over the last 18 months.

So they want a piece of that action to help justify the Voltec program.

Not everyone is all in on maximum electric driving minimum gas driving.

GM wants to sell to less fervent inbetweeners too.

 

[ggies07]

They are looking at the plug-in hybrids Prius, Fusion, and Accord sales grow and Volt go down slightly over the last 18 months.

So they want a piece of that action to help justify the Voltec program.

Not everyone is all in on maximum electric driving minimum gas driving.

GM wants to sell to less fervent inbetweeners too.

Well that's BS then, going backwards for profit. If they would instead focus on the future to compete with the Gen III, then they would sell some cars. Whats that phrase "peopel dont really know what they want until you give it to them" or something like that.....the Prius does so well because there is not a nice medium range all EV out there. Give that to the people and watch the switch.

 

[RobStark]

Well that's BS then, going backwards for profit. If they would instead focus on the future to compete with the Gen III, then they would sell some cars. Whats that phrase "peopel dont really know what they want until you give it to them" or something like that.....the Prius does so well because there is not a nice medium range all EV out there. Give that to the people and watch the switch.

We are taking about GM. It has always been about profit.

They bet Volt was going to be a massive hit with ever increasing government regulations around the world.

They had no Idea that the Model S , the Supercharger Network, and Model E was going to leapfrog them.

GM still insist the Voltec vehicles, Volt and ELR, are a better solution overall for most people.

 

[mknox]

GM still insist the Voltec vehicles, Volt and ELR, are a better solution overall for most people.

They've got a lot invested in that technology. It's the same reason Toyota is giving up on BEVs and continuing to focus on their Hybrid Synergy Drive technology.

 

[gnelson]

They've got a lot invested in that technology. It's the same reason Toyota is giving up on BEVs and continuing to focus on their Hybrid Synergy Drive technology.

Also GM doesn't have a charging infrastructure to support an electric vehicle without a range extender. Even if they could market an electric vehicle with a 300 mi range at a price comparable to a Model S, Tesla would have a huge competitive advantage with their Supercharger network. This applies to other potential EV manufacturers.

 

[stopcrazypp]

They can go ahead and make the car with the smaller pack, but offer the OPTION of a larger one. That's what all the automakers (except Tesla) are missing. One-size-fits-all does not work well with battery packs.

 

[thelastdeadmouse]

People here really underestimate the usefulness of the Volt. Every day I drive between 25-30 miles on electricity only during my normal commute and errands. Once a week for the last month, I've also completed a 400 mile round trip where I was only at the destination for 30 minutes, and in an area of the country that won't have superchargers potentially for years. The Volt is really the only car that can do this.

Furthermore, if you buy from a high volume Volt dealer, you can get a Volt for $23,000 - $24,000 net after tax credit. If they can drop the price by a few thousand then its in price range of anyone who can afford a new car. Even if the Model E is as low $35,000 it will still be out of price range for many shoppers. 30% of the households in the country bring in less than $35,000 annually, its in everyone's best interest if they're driving electric too.

 

[dsm363]

People here really underestimate the usefulness of the Volt. Every day I drive between 25-30 miles on electricity only during my normal commute and errands. Once a week for the last month, I've also completed a 400 mile round trip where I was only at the destination for 30 minutes, and in an area of the country that won't have superchargers potentially for years. The Volt is really the only car that can do this.

Furthermore, if you buy from a high volume Volt dealer, you can get a Volt for $23,000 - $24,000 net after tax credit. If they can drop the price by a few thousand then its in price range of anyone who can afford a new car. Even if the Model E is as low $35,000 it will still be out of price range for many shoppers. 30% of the households in the country bring in less than $35,000 annually, its in everyone's best interest if they're driving electric too.

I agree. If your commute works out like yours does and your monthly driving pattern does as well that is where the Volt really shines. For someone with a 80 mile daily commute for example then or many more longer trips per month then you have to sit down and do the math to see what makes the most sense be that a highly efficient ICE vs. the Volt vs. an EV (although an affordable EV with a long commute doesn't really exist yet).

 

[ggies07]

(although an affordable EV with a long commute doesn't really exist yet).

And this is what I'm looking/waiting to see from others in the industry. We've got the Prius and the Volt, let's seem them make a longer range EV without the need for gas. They don't need to make more versions of the same hybrid. Nissan has the LEAF, but of course their battery has problems after a couple of years and doesn't go over 80 miles. Is Tesla really going to be the only one to make this happen? Man I hope not....

 

[qwk]

For someone with a 80 mile daily commute for example then or many more longer trips per month then you have to sit down and do the math to see what makes the most sense be that a highly efficient ICE vs. the Volt vs. an EV (although an affordable EV with a long commute doesn't really exist yet).

I agree, but a real $35k EV with 200+ miles of range is inevitable very soon. Why settle?

 

[dsm363]

I agree, but a real $35k EV with 200+ miles of range is inevitable very soon. Why settle?

We are still many years from that happening and for some with only one car in the family and a short daily commute (and no need to seat more than 4) the Volt fills that need nicely.

 

[qwk]

We are still many years from that happening and for some with only one car in the family and a short daily commute (and no need to seat more than 4) the Volt fills that need nicely.

Your post said 80 miles daily commute. If one drives very little, the Volt is overkill, IMO. The value proposition just isn't there. If one drives 80 miles per day, the Volt isn't gaining you much over the lower priced Prius. It's sort of a bastard-child surviving in a niche market until someone(most likely Tesla) makes an EV in that price range. Then there will be a ton of imitations(see smart phone market), and a few Kodak's(short sighted companies always fail).

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I agree, but a real $35k EV with 200+ miles of range is inevitable very soon. Why settle?

It's hard for some to get over the range anxiety and that may be the case even if you give them a 400-mile range BEV. I know of a neighbor and many coworkers who got a Volt or a plugin Prius instead of any of the BEVs despite very short commutes just because of the "insurance" of the backup gas engine.

In their minds, we - ardent BEV fans - are "settling" and they are not.

 

[qwk]

It's hard for some to get over the range anxiety and that may be the case even if you give them a 400-mile range BEV. I know of a neighbor and many coworkers who got a Volt or a plugin Prius instead of any of the BEVs despite very short commutes just because of the "insurance" of the backup gas engine.

In their minds, we - ardent BEV fans - are "settling" and they are not.

There will always be laggards(one can still buy film for a regular camera), but for the most part technology shifts come quickly. Especially when there is such a vast difference in the cost of operation.

 

[ElSupreme]

There will always be laggards(one can still buy film for a regular camera), but for the most part technology shifts come quickly. Especially when there is such a vast difference in the cost of operation.

I agree with you. And I think EVs will be very rapid (given the duration a vehicle lasts) in adoption. But I also don't think that will really happen soon. There needs to be a critical mass of charging infrastructure before the rapid adoption occurs.

I think middle-class+ people that own a home will slowly get their 'second car' as an EV. But people in apartments, people with one car, and many other technology laggards won't convert.

I think the Volt (and others like it) are a good half step. That will promote infrastructure construction, but still cater to the people unlikely to switch now. I doubt it will last more than one lifecycle of a vehicle. But I think they have a place in the near future.