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Gonna bail - anyone else?
- Thread starter Jeva
- Start date
I am a simple federal employee. I cant afford a Tesla.... on paper. Put those pennies in a jar for a while and anything becomes affordable though.
Better question... why do people buy a Tesla? Many here will talk about electric vehicles and zero emissions. tinm says " I believe in the mission of the company, and want to support that mission. I believe in hastening the adoption of more sustainable forms of transportation and energy use." Rick says " IT'S FUN TO DRIVE !!!!" Farmerdave has safety on his mind "the safety for my grandkids and the (anticipated) ease of putting my granddaughter into her car seat."
We simply wanted to enjoy a true luxury car while we still could. Each of the above are all pluses.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
jeff,
It is a combination of a lot of things. It is part "why?" in that the X is so much bigger than the S but really does not offer that much more space/utility for us. We rarely need seven people seating and, when we do, it is not five plus two smaller people so we would likely end up taking two cars. Even folding down the two rear seats, our S' feel like they have more storage (with their rear seats up). I also fear the electrically actuated items on the car. Neither my wife nor I have sun roofs simply to avoid the electrically actuated nature and the potential for water/wind leaks. I've had to fix sun roofs in the past and even the best of them are a nightmare.
Lastly, its also a little bit of disillusionment with the whole idea. There was a time when I would look for an excuse to move my current Tesla into the secondary market and generate another new car sale. That time has passed which puts even more burden on the X to be a reason to make a change. We will likely replace my wife's current S with an S90D at some point. She got one as a loaner when her drive unit was being replaced and has yet to stop talking about it
Electricfan
Active Member
No, can't agree with logic that its better for the planet to drive an oil-burner. If everybody adopted your logic, nobody would ever buy an electric right? Because there are billions of cars in existence and it would take generations to drive them all into the ground, all the while they're killing our planet. No, we need to buy electrics and junkyard the ICE vehicles. Your argument reminds me of someone who said solar panels weren't green because it took so much energy to build one. Bad logic.
jeffro01
Active Member
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
I joined the "bailed" club. Had been going back and forth, a real rollercoaster. Was very disappointed after the so called launch. Then got excited, frustrated... finally my wife decided to order it last week. And today we cancelled the order and switched it instead get a second Model S.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
Basically the Model X is at the same time too big and too small. It's insanely wide on the outside, but with the thick FWDs not all that wide on the inside where it matters. Storage capacity is ridiculously small given its size. But what pushed us over the edge is that we still have no idea when we'd get it. And that the quality of the ones that have been delivered so far seems to be extremely hit and miss. I have personally seen 5 different Sig Model X and every single one had serious, serious fit and finish issues.
Zroiron
Poodle Pack Leader
These are all valid concerns, especially regarding the width and the storage space - I've been a bit worried about those myself, we already have trouble fitting our two cars in the garage. Would be interesting to hear some thoughts from some of the X owners here, just to get some different points of view.
aija SigX 649
Winged Lion
Sorry to see you go. Perhaps we closed our eyes to this possibility, but with every passing day I wait for my delivery, these issues are weighing more and more on me! Quality ought not be hit or miss ..or attributed to luck. I hope Tesla can quickly address the fit and finish (and functional) issues before they get out of hand! Longtime Sig reservation holders, mostly devout Tesla supports and purist brand ambassadors, deserve better!
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Tesla has been very very good in the past with trying to fix the issues with the cars. The problem is that fit/finish is hard to fix. So my Model S P85D happens to have a driver door that sticks out about 5mm. They tried to adjust it and then declared it "within spec". That doesn't make it an Edsel or Delorean - it's just something we worried about, given our experience (but then, we might get unlucky again and have the same problem with our third Model S).
I want to be clear: I don't think this is going to be a bad car. After all, we clicked "order" a week ago and just reversed that decision. But the more we thought about it the less it appeared this was the right choice for us right now. And who knows, maybe in a couple of years we'll trade in one of our Model S for a 2018 Model X.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I purposefully put my reservation in very late (Jan 2015) so they would have a number of cars under their belt by the time they got to mine. I never expected them to take so long to get into production nor have so many people defer until they actually sat in one (a good idea in my opinion). Since I decided to gamble a bit I ordered a few weeks ago and jumped way out ahead of where I was supposed to be.
My guess (WAG) now is that I will probably be somewhere in the 4,000 to 5,000 range when I originally thought it would be more like 15,000. I sure hope that's enough time for the bugs to be worked out and major refinements to take place.
My Edsel comment was more about features than build quality. The car is crazy cool but I can see tons of issues not only in things breaking, but in how well the average person would associate with the car. Hopefully it's more like the MB 300 SL Gullwing instead of a Delorean.:smile:
My guess (WAG) now is that I will probably be somewhere in the 4,000 to 5,000 range when I originally thought it would be more like 15,000. I sure hope that's enough time for the bugs to be worked out and major refinements to take place.
My Edsel comment was more about features than build quality. The car is crazy cool but I can see tons of issues not only in things breaking, but in how well the average person would associate with the car. Hopefully it's more like the MB 300 SL Gullwing instead of a Delorean.:smile:
Super_Popular
Well-Known Member
well the model s is up to 100k vin and its still having some of the issues the first models had (panel, sunroof, DU and little window leaks) so its doubtful that 5k wont have issues.
Mark Z
Active Member
Anyone can click my profile and read the posts in various places about my early VIN quality. Even though some complained bitterly about my first reveal of the initial issues, I was clear that the reason was to help Tesla Motors and early buyers.
1. Tesla Motors for quality improvement.
2. Buyers to see how their more recent vehicles are better than the early VINs.
I will know the differences when I see the Model X in the Tesla Store. Those production models will be the quality standard to measure from. One of the reasons I have taken photos of all my Model X Signature issues is to clearly compare the differences after Tesla corrects or does not correct, then compare with later production. This will help if someone isn't satisfied with the newer production and I can point out how much better it is.
Since both of my Model X and S Signatures can be compared as I view them together, I have found that the Model X Signature door, hood, and trunk gaps are narrower than on Model S Signature. That IMHO, may be why some early buyers of Model X Signature reported better build quality than Model S Signature. The Model X Signature seats are much more comfortable than Model S Signature, but my older seats still look new, while Model X seats appear to have some age marks with the creases in the leather.
Right now Model X sits in my garage while I continue to happily drive Model S Signature with version 7.1. I don't want to answer questions in public with a car that has an inoperative falcon wind door and broken seat mover. Unlike the past, a call to Tesla now only logs the issue. No quick over the internet software fix or reset that is downloaded as in the early days of Model S (at least for this car.) They did grab the logs from the vehicle for documentation since the Model X will go in for the first round of repairs in a few days.
Where do I stand on the Gonna bail issue? That answer will be on how much better I enjoy Model X Signature over time. I have started a list of what I like about Model S and X for comparison. There is a great deal to like about Model S. I originally decided to hold onto Model S Signature during the HOV sticker wait time for Model X. I have since decided that if I keep both, Model S P85 is perfect for around town and night drives, while Model X P90DL is for the highway adventures.
For those who are on the "what shall we do?" side of decision making and worry a lot, IMHO, I would suggest delay without loss if you can.
Signature order? IMHO, if economically possible, don't trade-in if you would later wish you hadn't. Don't lose 40K. Take delivery, get all the repairs needed, and then decide what vehicle to keep and what to sell.
Production order? IMHO, If possible, wait for Model X to appear for test drives at your Tesla Store. If you can't wait, don't worry, IMHO, there will be eager buyers for Model X if you need to sell later this year, especially if you discount your usage.
Switch to Model S? IMHO, an excellent decision if you don't need the higher profile, additional seating or towing package. The latest Model S vehicle seats are more comfortable than my original Model S seats. I can list more wonderful reasons to purchase Model S another time.
Imagine how I felt after taking delivery and later in the day parked in the Tesla parking lot for a few minutes. Some wonderful customers visiting the Tesla Store walked over for a look at my vehicle. I demonstrated the doors and seats as best I could, and the early VIN quality was showing. Their comment was, "They told us to wait a year, the quality would be better!" Now keep in mind, there is a year wait anyway, so it is understandable that someone in the store might say that to keep a future customer happier about waiting. But I knew it was true, it is better to wait if you don't need the Model X right away. In my case, I had already waited almost 47 months!
1. Tesla Motors for quality improvement.
2. Buyers to see how their more recent vehicles are better than the early VINs.
I will know the differences when I see the Model X in the Tesla Store. Those production models will be the quality standard to measure from. One of the reasons I have taken photos of all my Model X Signature issues is to clearly compare the differences after Tesla corrects or does not correct, then compare with later production. This will help if someone isn't satisfied with the newer production and I can point out how much better it is.
Since both of my Model X and S Signatures can be compared as I view them together, I have found that the Model X Signature door, hood, and trunk gaps are narrower than on Model S Signature. That IMHO, may be why some early buyers of Model X Signature reported better build quality than Model S Signature. The Model X Signature seats are much more comfortable than Model S Signature, but my older seats still look new, while Model X seats appear to have some age marks with the creases in the leather.
Right now Model X sits in my garage while I continue to happily drive Model S Signature with version 7.1. I don't want to answer questions in public with a car that has an inoperative falcon wind door and broken seat mover. Unlike the past, a call to Tesla now only logs the issue. No quick over the internet software fix or reset that is downloaded as in the early days of Model S (at least for this car.) They did grab the logs from the vehicle for documentation since the Model X will go in for the first round of repairs in a few days.
Where do I stand on the Gonna bail issue? That answer will be on how much better I enjoy Model X Signature over time. I have started a list of what I like about Model S and X for comparison. There is a great deal to like about Model S. I originally decided to hold onto Model S Signature during the HOV sticker wait time for Model X. I have since decided that if I keep both, Model S P85 is perfect for around town and night drives, while Model X P90DL is for the highway adventures.
For those who are on the "what shall we do?" side of decision making and worry a lot, IMHO, I would suggest delay without loss if you can.
Signature order? IMHO, if economically possible, don't trade-in if you would later wish you hadn't. Don't lose 40K. Take delivery, get all the repairs needed, and then decide what vehicle to keep and what to sell.
Production order? IMHO, If possible, wait for Model X to appear for test drives at your Tesla Store. If you can't wait, don't worry, IMHO, there will be eager buyers for Model X if you need to sell later this year, especially if you discount your usage.
Switch to Model S? IMHO, an excellent decision if you don't need the higher profile, additional seating or towing package. The latest Model S vehicle seats are more comfortable than my original Model S seats. I can list more wonderful reasons to purchase Model S another time.
Imagine how I felt after taking delivery and later in the day parked in the Tesla parking lot for a few minutes. Some wonderful customers visiting the Tesla Store walked over for a look at my vehicle. I demonstrated the doors and seats as best I could, and the early VIN quality was showing. Their comment was, "They told us to wait a year, the quality would be better!" Now keep in mind, there is a year wait anyway, so it is understandable that someone in the store might say that to keep a future customer happier about waiting. But I knew it was true, it is better to wait if you don't need the Model X right away. In my case, I had already waited almost 47 months!
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
My wife and I faced two issues and they were radically different.
The first was technology risk. I understand why Tesla is going down the full automatic door option as they need to make it down this learning curve for (what appear to be) future plans. I fear involvement in that curve for the same reason we have never ordered sun roofs in our cars. It is simply one more piece that can break. I lump the gadget risk in with the initial quality risk and have a high degree of confidence that Tesla will get it sorted. That level was high enough to order the X in support of the company and to play with the newest toy even though both of us are very happy with our S'.
The second issue was the one that drove the demise of our order. There is a marginal increase in utility with the X over the S in some areas and a marked reduction in others. Drop the rear seats in the S and you literally have a huge space to pile junk. I dropped the seats in the X and it really was no better and may have been less than the S. I then sat in the rear seats and felt hemmed in by the sides of the X which were quite thick. Perhaps the chargers had to be moved to the side walls to increase vertical space, I simply do not know but those side walls are intrusive.
One of the above can and will be addressed by the Tesla team over time. The other is a function of the design and will come down to a matter of taste.
The first was technology risk. I understand why Tesla is going down the full automatic door option as they need to make it down this learning curve for (what appear to be) future plans. I fear involvement in that curve for the same reason we have never ordered sun roofs in our cars. It is simply one more piece that can break. I lump the gadget risk in with the initial quality risk and have a high degree of confidence that Tesla will get it sorted. That level was high enough to order the X in support of the company and to play with the newest toy even though both of us are very happy with our S'.
The second issue was the one that drove the demise of our order. There is a marginal increase in utility with the X over the S in some areas and a marked reduction in others. Drop the rear seats in the S and you literally have a huge space to pile junk. I dropped the seats in the X and it really was no better and may have been less than the S. I then sat in the rear seats and felt hemmed in by the sides of the X which were quite thick. Perhaps the chargers had to be moved to the side walls to increase vertical space, I simply do not know but those side walls are intrusive.
One of the above can and will be addressed by the Tesla team over time. The other is a function of the design and will come down to a matter of taste.
And this is why I try to be very careful when discussing potential early quality issues on this forum. There are many contributing members who have already taken delivery and are dealing with their SCs. It doesn't help to have a chorus of people talking about waiting or delaying deliveries. You can make that personal decision based on the information, but announcing it outright seems a little unfair to people like Mark Z. Imagine a friend purchased a home in a subdivision you were considering, and you heard of some issues in those homes. Indeed, your friend was dealing with the builder on them. I doubt you'd want to say "yep, that's why I'm waiting."
There is certainly some risk. How much remains to be seen. I recall the days when power windows and power locks were discussed the same way, but they've proven to be extremely reliable. I wouldn't consider a car that was missing either of those items today. I've also had a power sunroof in all of my cars for the last 18 years and haven't had an issue. Doors, of course, are a much larger undertaking. We'll see.
I believe this is one of the most powerful arguments in this thread, and it was phrased best by AlMc a while back. Paraphrasing: "The Model S was a no-compromise sedan, but the Model X requires some compromise." There is nothing to "get over" with the MS - for a sedan especially, the utility is amazing. With the MX, some people (but not all!) need to adopt some compromise.
The emboldened points factored into my decision to get a Model S. I didn't know about the storage capacity at the time but since seeing the Model X, I concur.
That stated, the Model X has lots of nice things that I wish the Model S had. If I regularly drove with more than 3 people at a time, I would have been glad that I waited.
Merrill
Merrill
I'm purchasing the Model X for many reasons, maybe different than some. I want to be all electric and since I have a Classic Model S I really wanted the dual motor which was not available in 2013. I want to be able to go to the snow and haul my big dog, do not need tons of space inside do not care that I cannot put stuff on the roof. I feel that what ever problems I have with this car Tesla will fix them. Probably will not get my X til end of the year so most issues should be addressed. I have been very happy with my Model S and have had very few issues in the last 2-1/2 years. The X will be for my wife to replace her ML430 which I cannot wait to get rid of. So there is always a trade off when purchasing anything, the fact that Tesla even exists is amazing. I hope that everyone who has the early cars and has issues will get everything taken care of, I'm sure it is frustrating to wait so long and then not be able to drive your car.
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