Greedy electricians - gotta pay them or keep looking?

[electrongeek]

If that existing 120V outlet on the outside of the house is the only one on that circuit, it can easily be rewired as 240V going to a NEMA 6-15 outlet. This is a simple re-wire at the load center, it has the hot wire going to one 20 amp breaker on one phase, and the former neutral wire going to a 20 amp breaker on the opposite phase in the load center. Since the circuit is still only carrying 12 amps, the existing wiring is fine. You just need the 240V specific 6-15 outlet. This will give you 11 mph charge rate. An electrician could do this for you very easily and cheaply - theoretically.

If the wiring for that circuit is actually rated for 20 Amps, you could install a 6-20 outlet and charge at almost 14 mph while drawing 15 amps.

The bug in the ointment is that any other 120V outlets on the same wiring circuit would also need to be converted to NEMA 6-15 or 6-20 outlets and 240 Volts. That may not be a viable option for you.

 

[eevee-fan]

I would never break down the permit/labor/material for a residential customer... so, you guys are getting lucky they are willing to do that for you. What about the hour of labor involved in getting the permit @linuxguyInMD

I went in person and sat for a morning to get my permit approved. I, or the electrician, could have filed it online, which should be less than 15 min total.

 

[Kevy Baby]

I'm still a bit perturbed about the thread subject. Why does everyone think that people's time, knowledge, and experience is not worth something? @StealthP3D really covered things well pointing out all the things going into the finished product.

There was another person posting on here looking for the very cheapest possible tint job he could find. Personally, if I had the time to shop for the cheapest, I would first be spending the time to narrow down to the people who I felt would do a good job that will last. Then, when I have a pool of people who could give me what I want, if there were no other discernible factors, then I MIGHT go on price.

 

[qdeathstar]

I went in person and sat for a morning to get my permit approved. I, or the electrician, could have filed it online, which should be less than 15 min total.

yeah, so, whose paying for that time?

 

[Uncle Paul]

Everyone want a cheap price when shopping for home charging. People must remember that these outlets will be providing lots of current for lots of hours, and lots of years.
Getting it done right is worth something. Failing to get a proper permit, when one is required, may give insurance companies just the opening they need to deny a fire damage claim.

The current standard is to source a 14-50 outlet plug or wiring for a wall connector. Gives fast and safe charging for years to come.

Electricians are trained professionals. Not like hiring a gardener.

 

[jpfive]

No offense to any landscapers out there...

 

[StealthP3D]

Everyone want a cheap price when shopping for home charging. People must remember that these outlets will be providing lots of current for lots of hours, and lots of years.
Getting it done right is worth something. Failing to get a proper permit, when one is required, may give insurance companies just the opening they need to deny a fire damage claim.

The current standard is to source a 14-50 outlet plug or wiring for a wall connector. Gives fast and safe charging for years to come.

Electricians are trained professionals. Not like hiring a gardener.

Exactly. A good install adds value to the property and could even make your house sell faster (when the time comes) saving you bigtime (depending upon the exact situation when you are ready to move). Houses without EV charging solutions will soon be considered outdated. Cities and states are starting to require that new construction include wiring for EV charging. By having an actual outlet or EVSE already installed, you will already be one step ahead of what these cities and states actually require and one more reason why someone might choose your house over a similarly priced house that still needs the EV upgrade. The buyer might not even have an EV. Just the thought that they could go out and buy an EV with no EVSE hassles will be appealing to some buyers. It willl help your house compete with newer houses.

Requirements for new construction to include wiring for EV's will be spreading nationwide very soon because the International Code Council recently adopted that requirement. It will be published in October and this is the document that local governments around the country typically adopt as their own codes. The cost, when added to new construction, is minimal compared to many retrofits. You can learn more about the new code rule here:
New US building codes will make every home ready for electric cars

Every house should have a bare minimum of one EVSE station. Two is even better because it won't be all that long before many families have two EV's and no gas cars. We have two Model 3's and one F-150 (but we can't wait for the Cybertruck to be available).

We are so done with gas and oil changes it's not even funny!

 

[HighZ]

Just tell them you need a 6-50 plug in the garage for a welder. That should get you a better rate and fast charging. There already is a GFCI built into the mobile connector.

I spoke to a national installation company at CES that told me the same thing. After paying $850 to install a wall charger, he said I should have just asked to install a dryer outlet in the garage and it would have cost me $250. Not sure how I would have wired the wall charger, but he said it was a simpler task and I would have saved a bunch of money.

 

[turns2stone]

I spoke to a national installation company at CES that told me the same thing. After paying $850 to install a wall charger, he said I should have just asked to install a dryer outlet in the garage and it would have cost me $250. Not sure how I would have wired the wall charger, but he said it was a simpler task and I would have saved a bunch of money.

You might be saving $600 upfront, but when the time comes to sell your home, you might miss out on a EV/Tesla owner who justifies buying your home with a Wall Connector vs. one without

 

[HighZ]

You might be saving $600 upfront, but when the time comes to sell your home, you might miss out on a EV/Tesla owner who justifies buying your home with a Wall Connector vs. one without

I think he was assuming I would be able to install the wall charger from the outlet, but he would have had to install the 60A circuit, wiring and breaker.

In my case, the electrician who did the work never pulled a permit, so not sure if in now have a liability when I go to sell it, or if no one will ask if I had it permitted.

 

[jjrandorin]

I think he was assuming I would be able to install the wall charger from the outlet, but he would have had to install the 60A circuit, wiring and breaker.

In my case, the electrician who did the work never pulled a permit, so not sure if in now have a liability when I go to sell it, or if no one will ask if I had it permitted.

You mean you decided not to have the electrician pull the permit because you didnt want to pay for it? Or, are you saying your electrician never offered to get a permit for you, for an additional fee?

 

[eevee-fan]

yeah, so, whose paying for that time?

$350 for 15 min of work? Where do I sign up for that kind of work?

 

[eevee-fan]

I think he was assuming I would be able to install the wall charger from the outlet, but he would have had to install the 60A circuit, wiring and breaker.

In my case, the electrician who did the work never pulled a permit, so not sure if in now have a liability when I go to sell it, or if no one will ask if I had it permitted.

This is interesting. I get told the same when I asked homeowners about permits, most say they just do it. I asked what happens when it comes time to sell the house. Reply was that no one would check that.

After filing my permit, I checked and noticed that there were no other permits on my address, meaning the backyard landscaping job I paid for years ago was never permitted, at lest there was nothing on file that I could see.

 

[MichaelP90DL]

Tried Yelp?

 

[SSedan]

$350 for 15 min of work? Where do I sign up for that kind of work?

At least an hour to drive out and do the quote.
Figure an hour round trip driving for the day of work.
Time to acquaint with the homeowner on day of appointment.
Have to pay for a truck full of tools and supplies.

Are you people 12 and don't understand how business works or cripplingly academic and don't grasp what business is?

 

[jjrandorin]

At least an hour to drive out and do the quote.
Figure an hour round trip driving for the day of work.
Time to acquaint with the homeowner on day of appointment.
Have to pay for a truck full of tools and supplies.

Are you people 12 and don't understand how business works or cripplingly academic and don't grasp what business is?

For some reason, a lot of people think they dont have to pay for any of that... they think "well, thats just the cost of doing business". It IS the cost of doing business, which is why an independent contractor has to price to include that stuff. Its why an electrician will charge someone $100 to $125 to just install an outlet, but if you are doing a house full of outlets, it wont be $125 for each one.

Its why sometimes an electrician that lives in your neighborhood might be cheaper than one who lives in the next city over (maybe he can squeeze your job in on the way home for example).

The biggest problem I have with the OPs post, as someone else mentioned, is the use of the term "greedy", when two different contractors gave him similar pricing. If he had 3 quotes, and 2 were 800 and one was 2k, THEN MAYBE you can call the one that is 2k "greedy", but one would have to dig into what the quote was to understand why.

@SSedan (im agreeing with you btw, if its not clear)

 

[Merrill]

When I move 40 years ago and had to have some landscape material delivered when I told them where I lived they quoted twice the delivery fee because they said it was up a narrow road 3 miles from their location. I gave them another location 5 miles away and it was half the price. They found out where I lived and jacked the price, since then if I mention where I live or that I have 2 Tesla’s the price goes up. Most of the electricians I had look at installing 2 power walls quote’s where higher because of where I live and once they saw the main panel with the Tesla breaker that was it.

 

[eevee-fan]

When I move 40 years ago and had to have some landscape material delivered when I told them where I lived they quoted twice the delivery fee because they said it was up a narrow road 3 miles from their location. I gave them another location 5 miles away and it was half the price. They found out where I lived and jacked the price, since then if I mention where I live or that I have 2 Tesla’s the price goes up. Most of the electricians I had look at installing 2 power walls quote’s where higher because of where I live and once they saw the main panel with the Tesla breaker that was it.

Hm... you described greed. Sounds about right.

 

[eevee-fan]

At least an hour to drive out and do the quote.
Figure an hour round trip driving for the day of work.
Time to acquaint with the homeowner on day of appointment.
Have to pay for a truck full of tools and supplies.

Are you people 12 and don't understand how business works or cripplingly academic and don't grasp what business is?

So basing permit on having to show up in person working on just 1 job ($75/hr) when online options are now avail, taking just 15 min of work and no driving around, is fair? Enjoy getting ripped off.

 

[roblab]

On Amazon, when you select a EVSE that uses NEMA 14-50, you can add $550 for installation - meaning the electrician will install a NEMA 14-50 installed. For me, I got the permit myself for a DIY install, paid a retired electrician to do the install (and I helped), scheduled city inspection. Permit $50, parts $50, labor $100. Total $200. The run was 5 ft behind the wall, so just used a ROMEX 6/3 wiring and no need for conduit.

YES! Do a little investigating, maybe learn a few things, and DO IT yourself (with help if need be). Don't complain spending many hundreds of dollars if you're too ......... to save a little. I'm afraid to fill in the blank.

And as a bonus, what you learn will often translate to other savings for other projects!