Green New Deal

[S'toon]

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Government-run systems, as with other monopolies, largely function poorly. But they just have to be better than a poorly-functioning market.

Not necessarily true. Governments can run well. The European social democracies are a model of what would be considered "large government" in the US, but they are effective. The right wing Libertarian Cato Institute even rates Denmark as the best place to do business in the world.

As I showed earlier in the thread, the administration in government single payer systems is a lot better than private for profit companies. Turns out there isn't much overhead in sending the bills in to a single place, then paying the bills. It's efficient.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

.... Um.... you.... you think people on Medicare (poor and disabled), Medicare (older people) and people in the VA system (War injuries).... might... just might have higher than average medical needs?

Not to mention our corrupt legislative side makes it practically impossible to negotiate any price controls. That factor could obviously be highlighted by both sides of this argument, but to me it's impossible to do worse on cost than we are now.

Mirror very good private insurance, make it available to everyone, and let USAA administer the program. Even just removing the billing aspects of healthcare would save us tens of billions each year.

All that being said.....we are a joke. The US can't and likely won't get our act together on healthcare any time soon. Hopefully our new Chinese leaders will provide something in 2038.

 

[SageBrush]

Not necessarily true. Governments can run well. The European social democracies are a model of what would be considered "large government" in the US, but they are effective. The right wing Libertarian Cato Institute even rates Denmark as the best place to do business in the world.

As I showed earlier in the thread, the administration in government single payer systems is a lot better than private for profit companies. Turns out there isn't much overhead in sending the bills in to a single place, then paying the bills. It's efficient.

I think most of us can agree that monopoly breeds inefficiency, corruption and abuse, whether it is run by the government or a private enterprise. Exceptions just prove the rule.

 

[mspohr]

I think most of us can agree that monopoly breeds inefficiency, corruption and abuse, whether it is run by the government or a private enterprise. Exceptions just prove the rule.

Private sector monopolies breed inefficiency, corruption and abuse.
Governments don't have the pressure for profit, high pay for executives and cost cutting for everyone else. Social Security and Medicare are good examples of government managing things well without corruption and inefficiency. Greedy doctors and hospitals try to abuse the system but they eventually are caught.

 

[juliusa]

Governments don't have the pressure for profit, high pay for executives and cost cutting for everyone else. Social Security and Medicare are good examples of government managing things well without corruption and inefficiency.

We are talking Medicare here, right? Medicare is administered by contractors who do everything. They process and pay the claims, audit the claims, etc.

Some of the large contractors are Noridian, NGS, Novitas, Palmetto, WPS, and First Coast. Their CEOs are well compensated. My guess is they make in the 10s of millions annually.

 

[SDRick]

If workers are going to be overpaid, the CEOs may deserve it more than the athletes, singers and movie stars.

 

[nwdiver]

If workers are going to be overpaid, the CEOs may deserve it more than the athletes, singers and movie stars.

As much as people might say not going to that game, concert or movie will 'kill them' that's not literally true. I can avoid those if I can't afford them and not die. Little harder to avoid health care that I need.

 

[juliusa]

None of the proposals for "Medicare for All" that I have seen avoid paying many CEOs salaries in the 10s of millions. They all seem to be proposing expanding the current Medicare system to everyone.

 

[nwdiver]

None of the proposals for "Medicare for All" that I have seen avoid paying many CEOs salaries in the 10s of millions. They all seem to be proposing expanding the current Medicare system to everyone.

Medicare for all replaces insurance. Those CEOs will no longer be bilking consumers for 10s of millions.

 

[SDRick]

From my perspective, in general, "overpaid" CEOs provide more value to society than the "overpaid" entertainers.

 

[Lloyd]

Many places in Europe can't afford some of the luxuries that we do in the US. Some capitalist countries can afford socialized programs, but it's not the programs that made them prosperous. Look at the standard of living, and what the taxpayers (citizens) have to give up in return...........

You Can See America's Future Under Socialism, And It Isn't Pretty | Investor's Business Daily

Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

 

[nwdiver]

From my perspective, in general, "overpaid" CEOs provide more value to society than the "overpaid" entertainers.

Sure... but I can choose to not contribute to entertainers, my choices with healthcare CEOs are pay or die.

Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

SWEET... so no one should have a problem adopting their economic model. When do we start?

 

[mspohr]

Many places in Europe can't afford some of the luxuries that we do in the US. Some capitalist countries can afford socialized programs, but it's not the programs that made them prosperous. Look at the standard of living, and what the taxpayers (citizens) have to give up in return...........

You Can See America's Future Under Socialism, And It Isn't Pretty | Investor's Business Daily

Sorry Bernie Bros But Nordic Countries Are Not Socialist

Nobody (except the Republicans) is talking about making America socialist. It is just fear mongering.
The Green New Deal (GND) is a proposed stimulus program that aims to address climate change and economic inequality[1][2][3][4] The name refers to the New Deal, a set of social and economic reforms and public works projects undertaken by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in response to the Great Depression.[5] The Green New Deal combines Roosevelt's economic approach with modern ideas such as renewable energy and resource efficiency.[6][7]
We are also talking about "Medicare for All" which would expand the current Medicare program to include everyone. Medicare is an insurance and payment mechanism. It does not deliver any services. It is not state run medicine. It just pays for services delivered by the private sector.

 

[juliusa]

Medicare for all replaces insurance. Those CEOs will no longer be bilking consumers for 10s of millions.

Sure, insurance goes away - but Medicare gets bigger. These companies are Medicare contractors hired by the government to pay Medicare claims. With "Medicare for All" won't their work (and compensation) increase?

 

[nwdiver]

Sure, insurance goes away - but Medicare gets bigger. These companies are Medicare contractors hired by the government to pay Medicare claims. With "Medicare for All" won't their work (and compensation) increase?

It's not like the US is pioneering a single-payer system. Pretty much every other western country uses some form of single payer health system and the results are clear.

 

[juliusa]

It's not like the US is pioneering a single-payer system.

The single-payer system that everyone seems to be proposing is "Medicare for All". Yes, the government pays for everything - using private companies to do all the work. While it may lower health care costs, it does not do away with the insurance company CEOs making 10s of millions of dollars or their shareholders making profits.

For those that don't know how Medicare works, here is a good primer from CMS. MACs are private companies that pay Medicare claims. They replaced the old FIs and Carriers. There are also other private companies that work for CMS - for example QICs, RACs, etc. All have private company pay structures.

What is a MAC - Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services

Besides the MACs and the whole "fee for service", there are also private companies that provide Medicare - this is Medicare Part C. Humana is big in this - you have probably seen their Medicare ads on TV. I think AARP Medicare plans are underwritten by Humana. About 1/3 of Medicare recipients opt for Medicare Advantage plans from private insurance companies - it has increased substantially in the past decade. Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All proposal would eliminate that. When 1/3 of seniors that have chosen Medicare Advantage find out they lose that option with Medicare for All, it will be interesting to see the reaction.

Devil is in the details. And not just how to pay for it.

 

[nwdiver]

it does not do away with the insurance company CEOs making 10s of millions of dollars or their shareholders making profits.

They can make their millions so long as my healthcare costs don't go up as a result. I have no problem with private gold-plated health insurance so long as there is an affordable single-payer option.

 

[juliusa]

They can make their millions so long as my healthcare costs don't go up as a result.

Should we let private insurance companies continue to provide Medicare Advantage plans which 1/3 of current recipients elect, or should we take that away like Bernie Sanders' plan does? (I'm not sure what others are proposing as Medicare for All - they have not defined it)

I was surprised to see Bernie taking that away - everyone seems to be promoting Medicare for All because it is a well liked program. We got fooled with the ACA (you can keep your plan...you can keep your doctor). This time around I think people will be asking a lot more questions and looking at the details. No more "we'll find out what is in the bill after we pass it". I'm not sure why the media doesn't make the candidates answer that one simple question - would your "Medicare for All" plan eliminate Medicare Advantage that 1/3 of all current Medicare recipeints are enrolled in?

 

[nwdiver]

Should we let private insurance companies continue to provide Medicare Advantage plans which 1/3 of current recipients elect, or should we take that away like Bernie Sanders' plan does? (I'm not sure what others are proposing as Medicare for All - they have not defined it)

I was surprised to see Bernie taking that away - everyone seems to be promoting Medicare for All because it is a well liked program. We got fooled with the ACA (you can keep your plan...you can keep your doctor). This time around I think people will be asking a lot more questions and looking at the details. No more "we'll find out what is in the bill after we pass it". I'm not sure why the media doesn't make the candidates answer that one simple question - would your "Medicare for All" plan eliminate Medicare Advantage that 1/3 of all current Medicare recipeints are enrolled in?

I really couldn't care less as long as we can find a way of achieving the very low bar that every other western nation has achieved. You can't lose your home by getting sick...

This is a national disgrace....

 

[S'toon]

I really couldn't care less as long as we can find a way of achieving the very low bar that every other western nation has achieved. You can't lose your home by getting sick...

This is a national disgrace....

One of my cousins went bankrupt due to medical bills. Lost his small business. Republicans are supposed to like small business owners, aren't they?