GTA Winter Driving and Snow Tires

[Forty Creek]

What's interesting is that when I took my car in for (among other things) a drive unit replacement, I specifically asked for the alignment to be checked due to a "loose" feeling on the highway. They reported back that the car was "driving as designed" and did not check the alignment. I would have thought replacing the drive unit would have required one, but there was no mention anywhere on the Work Order they e-mailed me. They also did not rotate the tires. I have both the Extended Warranty and the 4 + 4 Year Service Plan.

I thought it was unusual that they rotated my tires. I mean I'm happy they did but it left me wondering whether there had indeed been an alignment problem in the first place. All is good now. Did you still have that 'loose' feeling after the service visit?

 

[mknox]

Did you still have that 'loose' feeling after the service visit?

It was actually a bit better, but still not as good as I think it should be. I'm used to it now, but whenever I've been in another car for a while (my wife's Pontiac Vibe, the rental Chevy Tahoe I took to Chicago), the S is noticeably more wobbly on the freeway than the others when I get back into it. It's hard to describe. It doesn't "pull" one way or the other, but I can actually feel my head bob from side to side as I drive and I have to constantly input little steering corrections. It's as if it's hunting for a groove in the roadway, which I'd consider a possibility, except that no other car I drive on the same routes exhibits this behavior.

 

[Forty Creek]

It was actually a bit better, but still not as good as I think it should be. I'm used to it now, but whenever I've been in another car for a while (my wife's Pontiac Vibe, the rental Chevy Tahoe I took to Chicago), the S is noticeably more wobbly on the freeway than the others when I get back into it. It's hard to describe. It doesn't "pull" one way or the other, but I can actually feel my head bob from side to side as I drive and I have to constantly input little steering corrections. It's as if it's hunting for a groove in the roadway, which I'd consider a possibility, except that no other car I drive on the same routes exhibits this behavior.

Well, short of a design issue with the car, wouldn't that behavior point to either the alignment or the tires? But then you've switched to winter tires so that isn't it. Hmmm.

 

[CanuckS#69]

I don't know if the alignment issues have been resolved or not. My 21s had belts showing and lost air at 6,000km and my winters and summer 19s are still showing excessive wear. At the time of the 21s wearing out, I didn't get replacements due to alignment issues. I've still got two perfectly good 21s and a set of rims wasting away and I'd love to go to as more performance oriented summer tire, but not unless I can reasonable life from them.

 

[jerry33]

It doesn't "pull" one way or the other, but I can actually feel my head bob from side to side as I drive and I have to constantly input little steering corrections. It's as if it's hunting for a groove in the roadway, which I'd consider a possibility, except that no other car I drive on the same routes exhibits this behavior.

Two thoughts here:

First one: Did you try one finger driving? Sometimes there is a tendency to correct when correction isn't necessary, and then the vehicle then behaves the way you describe.

Second one: There is not enough caster. Stability at high speeds comes from caster.

 

[Forty Creek]

I don't know if the alignment issues have been resolved or not. My 21s had belts showing and lost air at 6,000km and my winters and summer 19s are still showing excessive wear. At the time of the 21s wearing out, I didn't get replacements due to alignment issues. I've still got two perfectly good 21s and a set of rims wasting away and I'd love to go to as more performance oriented summer tire, but not unless I can reasonable life from them.

Yikes. I have 19s but even 21s showing belts at 6,000 km seems wrong. Maybe you spent some time at the track?

 

[bsd]

It's as if it's hunting for a groove in the roadway, which I'd consider a possibility, except that no other car I drive on the same routes exhibits this behavior.

I have this exact same issue. From the sound of your commute, we frequently drive the same section of the 401. I do notice "whale singing" from other cars while driving the eastbound section between Guelph and Milton.

I wonder if I only notice it because no other car I've driven is as solid as the MS. I'm away right now and have felt almost seasick from the wallowing sensation of the rentals and other cars I've been driving.

First one: Did you try one finger driving?

I'll be sure to try when I'm back. I didn't notice the feeling after I switched to winters, but I wasn't driving on the 401 either.

Second one: There is not enough caster. Stability at high speeds comes from caster.

Huh. Is caster adjustable? Is there an acceptable range for the MS?

 

[mknox]

I do notice "whale singing" from other cars while driving the eastbound section between Guelph and Milton.

They re-paved that section a few years ago and I think introduced some sort of rain grooving or spray-resistant asphalt texture. I get that sound too on all the cars I take on that route. It's not as pronounced now as it used to be, presumably because the pavement is wearing.

- - - Updated - - -

First one: Did you try one finger driving? Sometimes there is a tendency to correct when correction isn't necessary, and then the vehicle then behaves the way you describe.

I kinda did. I was really trying to see if there was any left or right "pull" and took my hands off the wheel. There was no pull, but the "wobble" persisted. I'll try one-finger driving for a longer stretch and see.

 

[jerry33]

Huh. Is caster adjustable? Is there an acceptable range for the MS?

As far as I know, caster is adjustable. I don't have the specs though.

Caster is the angle of a line drawn though the ball joints when looking at the car from the side. Although caster is always measured in degrees, what's important is the trailing distance. The trailing distance is the distance at ground level from a vertical line drawn through the centre of the hub to where the line drawn though the ball joints intersects with the ground. This means that a change in the loaded radius of a tire changes the caster (smaller loaded radius reduces trailing distance). Large trailing distance increases stability. The effect of caster increases as speed increases (SAI/KPI is for stability at low speeds because speed doesn't affect it's self-centering qualities).

Too little caster causes the tires to hunt.

Too much caster causes the tires to move violently from side to side. You've no doubt seen this effect in a shopping cart with a "bad wheel".

 

[djp]

What's interesting is that when I took my car in for (among other things) a drive unit replacement, I specifically asked for the alignment to be checked due to a "loose" feeling on the highway. They reported back that the car was "driving as designed" and did not check the alignment. I would have thought replacing the drive unit would have required one, but there was no mention anywhere on the Work Order they e-mailed me. They also did not rotate the tires. I have both the Extended Warranty and the 4 + 4 Year Service Plan.

I'd recommend Can Align in Millgrove if you want an independent alignment check. Scott is one of the best in southern Ontario and was able to fix an alignment problem on my Roadster that had Tesla stumped.

 

[mknox]

Well, here's another testimonial to the Nokian Hakka R2's that I installed a few weeks back.

This morning, I came out to a bit of an ice storm with about 1/2" of ice all over the driveway and it was raining! I literally could not stand on it, and had to crouch down and shuffle my way to the garage door steadying myself with my gloved hands on the ground. I must have looked pretty silly. My drive has a bit of a slope, and I was worried the car may start to slide as I backed out and hit the garage door opening. As it turns out, it stuck to the ground like dry pavement (well, almost). I played around driving back and forth and the car would stop instantly and move again with no wheelspin at all. These tires are incredible even on rain covered ice!

- - - Updated - - -

I'd recommend Can Align in Millgrove if you want an independent alignment check. Scott is one of the best in southern Ontario and was able to fix an alignment problem on my Roadster that had Tesla stumped.

Thanks. As I say, it's not horrible... just noticeable which makes it a bit annoying. I'll make a note and probably wait until spring and I have my summers back on the car.

 

[cwave1]

I had the same experience in Toronto in the last day or so with my Michelin Xi3's.

I think the low weight in the car and the excellent traction control also have a part in why this car runs so well in the slick stuff.