I see this with reasonable frequency. A charge station set on a handicapped "Reserved Parking" space. Is there any applicable Washington law that allows charging by non-handicapped users in such spaces? Did the Tesla driver break the law in the picture below?
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almostFitToEat
Member
My vision isn't that great...but the sign below says, "EV Charging Station"? I would assume a shared space...and a photo in case I have to go to court. BTW PhilBa, where is this?
But....
http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/parking.html
But....
http://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/parking.html
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I'm not sure what the law is here. Does a "private sign" over-ride an official state (or federal?) mandated sign? I can't imagine a sign that says "anyone else can park here too" would dissuade Officer Krupke from writing a ticket. I'm not a lawyer but would be surprised, without an RCW statute, that a court would come down on the side of the non-handicapped EV owner.
The location is the Willows lodge in Woodinville. Right across the parking lot from the Herbfarm (if you haven't been and are any kind of foodie, you MUST go - one of the best in the region.). Barking Frog, a wonderful restaurant but pale in comparison to the HF, is also there. Hop, skip and a jump from St Michelle, Redhook Forecasters pub and all the stuff at Hollywood corners. One of my favorite east side locations. Did I mention the Herbfarm?
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Odenator
Member
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
Tesla had a Roadster test-drive event there in 2010, and that's when they installed the 14-50's and put up the signs.
The Lodge put up the signs without talking to Tesla or any owners. I give them credit for trying (at the time there was almost nowhere else in the area to plug in!), but certainly agree it could be improved.
Yes, the Willows Lodge is a really nice place. They go out of their way for the guests. Pricey but worth it. My GF took me there (and dinner at the Herbfarm) for my birthday. She's a keeper!
By the way, there are a number of other chargers in their parking lot. IIRC, 2 J1772s and maybe a chademo or two?
By the way, there are a number of other chargers in their parking lot. IIRC, 2 J1772s and maybe a chademo or two?
That area next to the parking spot with the white lines looks like the walkway to the entrance. Have they said if people can park there or would they be willing to add a spot there assuming there is room for people to walk around the car? Ideally they'd just move the handicap parking parking spot over and make the current handicap spot EV parking only.
bollar
Disgruntled Member
No, there are no exceptions in Washington: RCW 46.61.581: Parking spaces for persons with disabilities — Indication, access — Failure, penalty.
Maybe if the owner has more handicapped spaces than required by building code, they could reserve the excess spaces for disabled or EV charging parking. But they wouldn't want to mark it with the "international symbol of access."
Maybe if the owner has more handicapped spaces than required by building code, they could reserve the excess spaces for disabled or EV charging parking. But they wouldn't want to mark it with the "international symbol of access."
bollar
Disgruntled Member
There is not one that I can find, however, you do have a new law related to marking EV-only parking spaces and the penalties for ICEing or parking in the spot without being connected to power: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/Session%20Laws/Senate/5849-S.SL.pdf
How many accessible spaces were there in the picture above? Unless there were more spaces than required by building code/Americans with Disabilities Act, it's not possible that any type of exception could be considered. In any event, the "international symbol of access" designates an accessible parking space and any dual use accessible space beyond those required by code should not use the symbol.
FYI, information on the number of spaces required and other issues is found in this Federal technical bulletin: Parking Technical Bulletin
bollar
Disgruntled Member
Okay -- if those numbers are right, then this parking lot appears to have the minimum number of accessible spaces required by ADA. The state wouldn't be able to legislate a shared use for any of those five.
I know there is an effort to place 70A J1772 EVSEs in Washington state. Since there is already a 50A circuit going to that general area, maybe they'd be open to a 40A EVSE being installed one parking space over and having the proper signs for EV parking? While the current 'Tesla' spot is nice, it is not in the best location and there is nothing keeping someone in any other EV from plugging in so might as well use the standard J1772 EVSE.
That looks like a great restaurant. Will have to check it out next time I'm up that direction.
That looks like a great restaurant. Will have to check it out next time I'm up that direction.
Ugh, I think that is terribly wrong. Why would a non-handicapped car park in a handicapped space? Handicapped folks also drive EVs and it would suck to take a charger set next to the ramp for their accessibility.
Regardless of the law, this is idiotic. There are people with lift vans that need those spaces for egress and ingress to their van.
I'm not blaming the driver of the car in the picture, as it is also marked as an EV spot. I'm blaming whoever decided that it's okay to combine the spaces.
I'm not blaming the driver of the car in the picture, as it is also marked as an EV spot. I'm blaming whoever decided that it's okay to combine the spaces.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The complication in all this, that people here may have missed, is the need to provide accessible EV parking spaces as part of ADA. That's why you may see spaces that are both accessible and an EV parking space.
http://www.theevproject.com/downloa...lity at Public EV Charging Locations (97).pdf
And that may not necessarily mean exclusivity (the guide book there points to accessible bathrooms and hotel rooms which are not exclusive). That means as long as they have enough accessible spaces to meet their minimal ADA guidelines without including the EV space, the accessible EV space can be used by non-handicap users. If however the accessible EV space has to be included in the count in order for them to meet minimum requirements, then that space must be handicap only.
http://www.theevproject.com/downloa...lity at Public EV Charging Locations (97).pdf
And that may not necessarily mean exclusivity (the guide book there points to accessible bathrooms and hotel rooms which are not exclusive). That means as long as they have enough accessible spaces to meet their minimal ADA guidelines without including the EV space, the accessible EV space can be used by non-handicap users. If however the accessible EV space has to be included in the count in order for them to meet minimum requirements, then that space must be handicap only.
@olan, this particular space is not the issue. It's not uncommon to see 2 charger spaces side by side; one handicapped and one not. Blink even goes so far as to have the handicapped space charge station lower (i.e. accessible). One lot I know of has about 70 spaces with 6 accessible, one of which has an EVSE.
@stopcrazy, The problem is that in all the ones I've seen there is nothing that says "OK for EV charging". While they have EV signage, they also have Accessible signage that is uncompromising. There are 5 possible parking space types:
@stopcrazy, The problem is that in all the ones I've seen there is nothing that says "OK for EV charging". While they have EV signage, they also have Accessible signage that is uncompromising. There are 5 possible parking space types:
- standard (inaccessible?)
- standard, EVSE
- exclusive accessible
- exclusive accessible with EVSE
- shared accessible with EVSE
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Actually page 7 of the document I linked has an example of the height difference between a ADA compliant Blink/Ecotality EVSE vs a standard one.
Does this location have more than one EVSE or is this the only one? If they have 100+ spaces they need a minimum of 5 handicap only spaces. And if they only have 1 EVSE, they pretty much have to install that EVSE such that handicap space can use it (even though it puts it in a weird position where it might not be usable by non-handicap users). Ideally they have the station put so that it's next to a handicap and a non-handicap space, so that both can use it. The complication is they may have to designate both spaces as EV only (and they might not want to do that).
Long story short, ADA requirements have precedence over EV only. So unless you come to a facility with more than the required accessible spaces, you can't park in a handicap space even if it's marked for EV charging too.
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