Happy Birthday to me... it's a P90D

[Pete90D]

Well, I'm not going to throw the towel in on this one yet. When the very first video of a P90D with Ludicrous surfaced, and wk057 pointed out that based on the power meter, he doubted the horsepower claims would be met, I pointed out that it was possible Tesla just hadn't fully enabled Ludicrous mode yet. So perhaps that really is what we're seeing.

I'm not saying this to turn this into a big HP debate, but I do want to point out that 612 instead of 762 is a ~20% loss, and ICE cars I've seen have had a 20+% loss from crank to wheel. I don't know much about EVs yet so I don't know if there would be an equivalent loss. I've never expected a car to actually put out the numbers they say because of the loss.

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Congrats on being the first pull a hard number out of the battery with L mode. What SOC was this? Can't wait to see what the max power difference is. If everything is consistent, the vbox should come up with about 550 at the wheels with those kW numbers above. Really can't wait to see the first 1/4 mile timeslips. Unless we can get those numbers up a bit more, I'm not sure how they can get 8 tenths off the 1/4 mile time.

I recorded two passes, both had 456 as the max and the first was at 90% and the other was probably closer to 85%.

I've been trying to get the vbox working, but I haven't mastered getting it to time right. The first time I thought it would recalculate anything from 0, but it doesn't seem to. The 2nd time it gave me a 30-130mph graph and another graph had a max of 350mph. I definitely didn't go 350mph.

 

[Andyw2100]

I'm not saying this to turn this into a big HP debate, but I do want to point out that 612 instead of 762 is a ~20% loss, and ICE cars I've seen have had a 20+% loss from crank to wheel. I don't know much about EVs yet so I don't know if there would be an equivalent loss. I've never expected a car to actually put out the numbers they say because of the loss.

But the 612 would be --BEFORE-- drive train loss.

Also I believe with our cars people typically expect about a 10% drive train loss.

See sorka's post, (below) which he was probably writing at the same time you were writing yours. He's expecting to see 550 at the wheels.

Congrats on being the first pull a hard number out of the battery with L mode. What SOC was this? Can't wait to see what the max power difference is. If everything is consistent, the vbox should come up with about 550 at the wheels with those kW numbers above. Really can't wait to see the first 1/4 mile timeslips. Unless we can get those numbers up a bit more, I'm not sure how they can get 8 tenths off the 1/4 mile time.

 

[sorka]

I'm not saying this to turn this into a big HP debate, but I do want to point out that 612 instead of 762 is a ~20% loss, and ICE cars I've seen have had a 20+% loss from crank to wheel. I don't know much about EVs yet so I don't know if there would be an equivalent loss. I've never expected a car to actually put out the numbers they say because of the loss.

It's true, at least from my own REST numbers compared to hp at the wheels via vbox that the drivetrain loss is far less than any AWD ICE. If the vbox is relatively accurate, it's about 10% vs double that for typical AWD cars, so you could give the tesla discount and say it's not as low is the numbers would suggest compared to an AWD.

So 611 hp at battery = 550 hp at the wheels in the Tesla while 611 hp at the crank in a typical AWD car = 488 hp at the wheels. ICE car would have to make 687 at the crank to put down 550 hp at the wheels.

Let's see what you get at 90% with max power in ready mode.

And this is your birthday thread, so I too don't want to turn this into a big long drawn out debate. Regardless, the difference was a noticeable kick in the pants And thanks for collecting the data with the vbox and writing your own app to collect the battery data

 

[Pete90D]

It is true this is 59 and not 60, but this is the data I pulled from the streaming API and this shows 3s exactly from 0-59 guessing there's probably a 250ms loss on either side.

 

[sorka]

Pipe several of those vbox runs into vBox Verify. You should see somewhere in the 2.8's *WITH* the 1ft rollout or about 3.1 seconds without the 1ft rollout. vBox Verify will show both at the same time. Make sure you're stopped for a good 5 seconds before accelerating so the software will be able to detected the 0 MPH mark. Also, if you're not using the external antenna, sometimes the noise can make the speed of the car constantly going in a zig zag at 1 mph or so(slow) but it can be enough to mess with the online versions auto detection between runs.

 

[Pete90D]

Pipe several of those vbox runs into vBox Verify. You should see somewhere in the 2.8's *WITH* the 1ft rollout or about 3.1 seconds without the 1ft rollout. vBox Verify will show both at the same time. Make sure you're stopped for a good 5 seconds before accelerating so the software will be able to detected the 0 MPH mark. Also, if you're not using the external antenna, sometimes the noise can make the speed of the car constantly going in a zig zag at 1 mph or so(slow) but it can be enough to mess with the online versions auto detection between runs.

Used the external antenna. Can I just leave it recording and it will auto-detect the stopping at 0 again? it didn't seem to do that the first couple times and I kept turning it off and on to get it to start over. Then when I did the other runs. I stopped, waited for sat to go solid, then floored it, and I've only gotten 30-60, 30-130 numbers (I did not go 130mph)

 

[sorka]

Used the external antenna. Can I just leave it recording and it will auto-detect the stopping at 0 again? it didn't seem to do that the first couple times and I kept turning it off and on to get it to start over. Then when I did the other runs. I stopped, waited for sat to go solid, then floored it, and I've only gotten 30-60, 30-130 numbers

Yea, if you press the record button so it just constantly records even when you're stopped, vbox verify will detect the breaks and organize all the runs with and without the 1 ft rollout. If you don't press the record button, the vbox will still record but it will pause when it detects there's been no movement for a few seconds. I'm not sure if this would mess up vbox verify or not.

 

[WarpedOne]

advertised power? Where, wich lanugage?

 

[Pete90D]

0-60 @ 3.236s with 1.689% slope
0-60 (1-ft) @ 2.901s with 1.689% slope

- No battery heating
- 95% SOC
- Low suspension
- 215lb driver
- No A/C

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Anyone know if the DragTimes time of 3.05 was 1ft rollout or straight 0-60? I see he was at ~100% when he did the run.

 

[sorka]

0-60 @ 3.236s with 1.689% slope
0-60 (1-ft) @ 2.901s with 1.689% slope

- No battery heating
- 95% SOC
- Low suspension
- 215lb driver
- No A/C

That's a certainly a significant drop over the current P85D. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that will dip into the 2.8s with the battery at optimal temperature. A very nice 0-60 improvement Can't wait to see the kW and 0-60 times with the battery hot.

 

[MuppetOwl]

0-60 @ 3.236s with 1.689% slope
0-60 (1-ft) @ 2.901s with 1.689% slope

- No battery heating
- 95% SOC
- Low suspension
- 215lb driver
- No A/C

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Anyone know if the DragTimes time of 3.05 was 1ft rollout or straight 0-60? I see he was at ~100% when he did the run.

The dragtimes videos are with rollout.

 

[Pete90D]

That's a certainly a significant drop over the current P85D. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that will dip into the 2.8s with the battery at optimal temperature. A very nice 0-60 improvement Can't wait to see the kW and 0-60 times with the battery hot.

KW didn't seem to change. The graph I showed earlier was part with off and part with it on. We'll see what a higher SOC gives me for both now that the API is back up. Maybe tomorrow night depending on my meeting schedule for Friday.

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[sorka]

Interesting. There's a really wide swing in g-force of over 1/2 g from 2.0 to 2.5 seconds. Did you notice any stuttering or possible traction issues? Oh, and the sight rise in altitude as you did that run will slow down the 0-60 some.

 

[Pete90D]

Interesting. There's a really wide swing in g-force of over 1/2 g from 2.0 to 2.5 seconds. Did you notice any stuttering or possible traction issues?

I can't say it was slipping, but it didn't feel right either. Hopefully one of these runs I do I won't have any issues and we'll get better data. It seems like every time I do it something is off.

 

[sorka]

I can't say it was slipping, but it didn't feel right either. Hopefully one of these runs I do I won't have any issues and we'll get better data. It seems like every time I do it something is off.

Feel free to keep the vbox for longer if you need it. There's not rush.....except for the rush of Ludicrous

 

[Pete90D]

Feel free to keep the vbox for longer if you need it. There's not rush.....except for the rush of Ludicrous

Thanks! and thanks again for letting me borrow it. Looking at the graph and where the G's start getting weird, it's shortly after the 40mph mark, which in the 30-60 peak. So I bet I was losing more traction than I felt.

 

[duncanduncan]

Thx Pete90D for all the usefull info!! My P90D Ludicrous is to be delivered end october..
I'm very interested in 0-100mph times... <7s??? :smile:
And of course the passing power (times) 62-124mph for example (100-200km/h).. That's where the P85D falls short in my opinion!

Do you already have the "updated" tail lights?

 

[Ames]

Thanks! and thanks again for letting me borrow it. Looking at the graph and where the G's start getting weird, it's shortly after the 40mph mark, which in the 30-60 peak. So I bet I was losing more traction than I felt.

Hi Pete,

From your first video and one other I can hear a slight surge in the motor sound. It could be possible you are losing traction. Thank you for your altruistic approach to gathering data.

Alex

 

[AnOutsider]

Mod Note: A couple posts moved to snippiness.

 

[Pete90D]

Thx Pete90D for all the usefull info!! My P90D Ludicrous is to be delivered end october..
I'm very interested in 0-100mph times... <7s??? :smile:
And of course the passing power (times) 62-124mph for example (100-200km/h).. That's where the P85D falls short in my opinion!

Do you already have the "updated" tail lights?

Passing power has improved quite a bit. I'm not planning on posting numbers above 70 unless I find a track because I'd prefer not to post incriminating evidence. Just personal preference.

I do have the updated tail lights. There's a picture further up of what they look like.