With each software update. It happen more often. Do you have any luck with Service Center?
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No. They changed out some front struts but the sound still happens periodically. Actually not as bad as before with the latest updates for me. I'm on 10.4. I've finally figured out it's just the brake pedal vibrating when TACC applies a lot of brakes. I think TACC is cycling the brake pressure on and off really fast and this is causing the pedal to vibrate.
Make's sense, from S owner's manual:
If it hits the pedal resonance, it might get loud (great documentary BTW)
Cirrus MS100D
Member
Agreed - I also don’t think it has anything to do with ABS, as I’ve seen that mentioned before. ABS would be some sort of insane hard braking on a slippery surface. Rather this feels more like attempting to provide 50% brake power by a binary machine oscillating between 100% and 0%, hence the juddering.
Mildly annoying but doesn’t seem to be an actual problem IMO.
haven’t read through all of this and not sure if this has been mentioned. But try using chill mode while in autopilot. I have found it to lead to a smoother more comfortable autopilot experience. Don’t get as much herky jerky speed up and slow downs. Everything more gradual. May help if this truly is from a braking issue.
I am on 2018.12, it happen more than few time every trip from office back to home (2 hours drive and about 1 hour of stop-and-go). Will this condition wear out brake pedal fast?
I don't think so but I'm no expert. I think this is just a vibration of the brake pedal. I don't think that is enough to wear it out. YMMV. BTW, I'm now on 18.12 as well. I haven't had a lot of stop-n-go driving with it yet so I can't say if it is better, worse, or the same. Although, the couple small stop-n-go events I did experience there was none of this. So that was good.
My AP2 car is in the service center for the same late, hard braking and shuddering noise when in TACC or AP. One through seven setting, stop-and-go traffic, driving fast or slowly makes no difference. It appears to be a deficiency associated with AP2. I have an AP1 loaner that works perfectly. Car slows down gradually with no noise.
Used to see this on older firmware, seldom see this on more recent firmware (2018.10.4 and 12). I think recent firmwares are looking a lot further ahead as I’ve seen the car slowing even before the front car appears on the IC, which never happened on past software. Hardware interaction could be an individual problem, of course.
I’ve always used following distance ‘2’, BTW.
I’ve always used following distance ‘2’, BTW.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
I get the shuddering noise regularly on 2018.10.4 on my X. Annoying. My AP1 X did not *ever* do this.
Interesting.... wonder if manufacturing date matters? Or AP2.5 (can't see how).... Mine was late August..
scottf200
Well-Known Member
I need to take back what I said. I drove quite a bit today and paid very close attention to how often the shutter happened compared to it slowing down farther away and smoother on 10.4. My memory was bad when I made the comment above. 10.4 is quite a bit better. I still got some shutters today but they are definitely less frequent.
rfmurphy81
Member
I'm hearing this sound on my June 2018 Model S, too, when on Autopilot and the car brakes hard. It is not reproducible when braking off Autopilot. Has anyone been able to get the Service Center to correct this issue? It definitely isn't the struts based on previous comments, but curious if anyone else has had this fixed yet.
No fix that I have heard of. I’m convinced that the sound is the brake pedal vibrating when TACC or AP cycles the brakes during a hard braking event. Always wondered if the performance pedals did this or if it’s just the normal pedals.
Cirrus MS100D
Member
The performance pedals are merely aluminum covers (e.g. makeup/lipstick/dressing); they are not meaningfully different in any way, so nothing to do with this juddering.
I also don't believe it's necessarily a "problem," in the sense that it may be "by design" (albeit not necessarily good design, but not indicative of an issue.) We drove a Model 3 for a week and did not experience the juddering on there with reasonably lengthy AP usage, but it also has the newer AP2.5 (or whatever) hardware and reacted a bit differently than our AP2 in all traffic. I would classify the Model 3 behaving more smoothly and reacting a bit more quickly than our MS. (Could have to do with processing, could have to do with different radar, who knows?)
If the noise is caused by pedal vibration induced from the ABS system, the additional mass of the pedal cover may be enough to cause the pedal to lift from the master cylinder linkage on the rebound. In other words, low mass pedals stay in contact but high mass seperate (in terms of play in the linkage) and then reconnect.
Cirrus MS100D
Member
You’d laugh if you held these things in your hands. “Mass” is not the word you’d use. (I installed a similar set of aluminum “pedals” on my Subaru’s and they weigh virtually nothing.)
In addition, I *don’t* have the aluminum pedals on our S and have experienced the shuddering/juddering, so if somebody with the pedals has also experienced it, it would rule that out.
My gut says it’s a software thing.
In addition, I *don’t* have the aluminum pedals on our S and have experienced the shuddering/juddering, so if somebody with the pedals has also experienced it, it would rule that out.
My gut says it’s a software thing.
I likely would
From a raw physics perspective, if it is an edge/ low probability condition, that incremental addition(albeit minor (depending on base pedal mass, rotational inertia difference, natural resonance)) could make a difference. It could be the case that all pedals can produce the noise, but the covered pedals have a greater chance of doing so.
Or it could be that another tolerance dwarfs it and is the root cause.
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