Hellcat Re-Match Results in beating P85D

[Norbert]

Drag radials would not help a P85D very much, in my opinion. In fact, the extra rolling resistance of the stickier tire compound may actually hurt the trap speeds. There is no traction issue with the P85D, and the computer doesn't need to activate traction control from what I have seen- so no real reason to go with stickier tire compound unless auto crossing or taking it on a road course, where you would want R compound tires for enhanced cornering ability. That's a whole difference ballgame, as the P85D wont hold a candle to pretty much any 250HP+ ICE vehicle with decent suspension.

It seems I misread that post a little as meaning the P85D AWD can do burnouts (with TC off or so). That's not what it actually said, and I checked other posts in other threads and apparently that is not the case.

However, it seems the statement about risking damage to the drive shaft when using drag radials, on the hellcat, still stands. And since the hellcat isn't that much faster with them, it apparently needs these drag radials to beat the P85D (although this is perhaps not completely clear). So the P85D has a much better way of getting its power on the road, and full acceleration is available in the car as it comes from the factory, easily and smoothly.

So my summary at this point: For drag racers, the hellcat offers various ways of improving performance, which the P85D doesn't (at least none are known at this time). However, the P85D gives quicker and more reliable acceleration to those who do not want to mod their car and/or don't want to risk damage.

 

[beeeerock]

Beeeeeeeeeeerock, another good example of the mechanically-challenged people on this forum. Once again, you are talking about a Jeep 4x4 which is 4WD, not full time AWD. I notice a lot of people that speak as if they have lots of knowledge, but definitely misspeak and give out incorrect false information here. With all due respect, its a bit frustrating.

:biggrin::biggrin: 'Mechanically-challenged"?? Well, I guess I'd better return my engineering degree and 25 years of real life experience then... hopefully I can retire before they find out about the secret design/build arrangement I had with the local kindergarten... that saw the kids build my stuff in exchange for an endless supply of Lego Technic.

The Jeep SRT8 has a full time AWD system. It uses the NV146 transfer case.. heres a description:

"SRT NV146. Active full-time single-speed with variable torque, solid electronically controlled clutch pack in center differential and open front and rear differentials. The NV146 transfer case provides On-Demand Active Four Wheel Drive for optimum traction in a wide range of conditions. The transfer case uses the electronically controlled clutch pack to distribute between 0% and 50% of the available torque to the front axle. The NV146 electronics provide an active system because it can anticipate and prevent slip."

I admit I don't have the spec sheet on your vehicle. From what I've seen about it though, the jeep.ca site calls it 4WD rather than AWD. It appears to me (without having the benefit of actually cracking one) that the transfer case is a hybrid between a true transfer case and a true differential in that the driver can select (fix) the torque distribution front and back. Whether that makes it more of a 4WD than an AWD vehicle I don't think I'd want to speculate. Given that it doesn't appear to have the advanced control of each wheel that makes a Subaru a Subaru and sets Audi, Mercedes and even VW apart from the domestics, I'd still consider this '4WD' as it appears to essentially be 'locked in'.

It might surprise you to know that I consider 4WD to be a superior system when it comes to brute traction. Driving experience has taught me that a good AWD is superior when it comes to maintaining control in marginal conditions and cornering (take a WRX -STI out for a romp!), but you won't pull a stump with an AWD vehicle the same way as you would with a 4WD vehicle - there's just too much slippage built into AWD... my first Pathfinder doubled as a skidder on a few occasions - LOL.

Enough of that... this isn't really what the thread was originally about.

 

[Stoneymonster]

It seems I misread that post a little as meaning the P85D AWD can do burnouts (with TC off or so). That's not what it actually said, and I checked other posts in other threads and apparently that is not the case.

The P85 would do a burnout with TC fully disabled. The trick is that to fully disable TC you have to pull a fuse (and the car does lots of other bad things, at least it yells a lot). Doubt anyone has tried to repeat that with a P85D.

 

[dsm363]

Mod note: please keep it civil.

Also if you claim physical superiority state your max bench press, squat, deadlift, mile and 40 yard dash time for reference.

 

[qwertzy]

Honesty I don't want to see the P85D with drag radials, is just dirties it my pov. It doesn't need it anyway. I just want to see those performance updates come along.

An AWD Hellcat still has a drive shaft which loses mechanical efficiency along the conventional ICE setup. At best it would perform the same as the RWD ver. with drag radials.
And the Challenger floor pan layout would not allow it anyway.



The P85D is the only AWD setup with two watermelon sized electric motors with no need for a drive shaft. Against the one huge engine of the hellcat, Tesla has the advantage in simplicity and the direct drive response without a transmission or drive shaft. Right now I think it is a P85 with really good traction, and only tuned performance wise for 0-30 acceleration with limited hp. Everything else above that is mostly better traction for now.

I still believe in those rumored updates the P85D can dip into the 2.7 range and even a faster quarter mile than the RWD Hellcat with drag radials. And even before that its still faster 0-30 than anything modded/stock ICE with over 650 hp.

 

[dsm363]

If you have to resort to drag radials to win then something is off. It's still an impressive car and much more affordable though.

 

[krisg81]

If you have to resort to drag radials to win then something is off. It's still an impressive car and much more affordable though.

Nah, nothing is off- its just an old school muscle car with a lot of HP to 2 rear wheels. Drag radials and drag slicks have been used forever and is whats needed to show the true performance of the car by increasing traction. AWD just happens to be a mechanical version of increasing traction without using drag radials or slicks.

At the end of the day I chose the P85D over a Hellcat because its more streetable, and I prefer AWD to RWD. I personally think the Hellcat is too overpowered for the chassis it sits on, especially with the stock crappy OEM 275 rear tires. The P85D is an all around better and higher tech package and EV's are the future. I just give credit to the Hellcat because it is a great example of American horsepower thats still putting up a great fight against the future.. electric vehicles. Especially at a great price point. If I didn't have the financial means to have a P85D instead of a Hellcat, I would have one... definitely cheap horsepower and a decent package for the money.

 

[jcaspar]

Both of these cars are fantastic and a testament to modern technology. The thing I love the most about it is here we are discussing the fastest sedan and they are both American cars! Why aren't we discussing the "fast' European sedans like the M5? Because it woudn't stand a chance against either of these beasts!

P.S. krisg81. Love your signature. I may have to steal it!

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If you have to resort to drag radials to win then something is off. It's still an impressive car and much more affordable though.

I think the same thing about AWD! :smile:

 

[krisg81]

Both of these cars are fantastic and a testament to modern technology. The thing I love the most about it is here we are discussing the fastest sedan and they are both American cars! Why aren't we discussing the "fast' European sedans like the M5? Because it woudn't stand a chance against either of these beasts!

P.S. krisg81. Love your signature. I may have to steal it!

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I think the same thing about AWD! :smile:

Thanks dude! Steal away :biggrin:

You are very right, how cool is it that here we are talking about one of the very best production muscle cars ever made, versus one of the best and most high tech cars ever made... and both American engineered! I love it. Both of these cars, including the new Corvette, are really changing the mindset and attitude towards good ol' American engineering. At the end of the day, these cars help boost our economy and take business away from overseas automakers. How great is it that the Model S is killing 7 series and S class sales? I love it.

 

[bluenation]

lol, im away not even 24hrs, and my god, this thread....

btw, did kris get banned for this thread? i havent read the whole thread but he seems pretty reasonable (definitely more than some others...). I hope it's not cuz the modship did not like his cheering both cars, opposed to just tesla.

lets be adult, guys. they're both great cars. Maybe stop trying to put down each other's drivers?

 

[Mr X]

Dude got banned for talking about cars on a forum about cars LOL


thats a bit absurd

 

[Todd Burch]

He didn't get banned. That's just his custom message in his profile.

 

[doug]

A bunch of posts got moved to snippiness and a temp ban was issued for rudeness and insults.

Please stay on topic.

 

[tezco]

High horsepower cars beget high horsepower posts.

 

[Nixter]

Since the P85D has been timed doing 0 to 60 @3.3 seconds in the rain;

http://youtu.be/Rt6daT51_sM. ( this video has been posted before by me in the videos section.)

It is not likely that using high traction tires would result in lower 0 to 60 times on a dry high traction surface.

The P85 (rear wheel drive) WILL benefit greatly from the addition of street drag tires. Jay Leno demonstrated how easily the P85 can do burnouts with the traction control turned off. You cannot do burnouts even in the rain with the AWD Tesla, until somebody equips their P85 with high traction tires we won't know for sure. We need a P85 owner to head out to the dragstrip and test what the ultimate acceleration capabilities are with the rear wheel drive P85, I think everybody here will be surprised. If I had to guess I would say that the best times will be obtained by leaving the traction control on, that's because I think that the Tesla computer controled traction algorithms will deliver as much torque as the tires can handle.

 

[mdevp]

IDK why people get so upset or irked when they say "my car is faster than xyz car in a 0-60, 1/4mi, etc", even if they are completely wrong, it seems silly to me. Anyhow my question is what is really so special about the srt hellcat exactly, I'm asking as a question, not an insult in any way. My first major car purchase was a e92 M3 and it wasn't uncommon to see people at events with superchargers making 700hp that drove pretty well. I'm sure if you stuck radials on them they too would do similar quarter times as the hellcat. What is the groundbreaking difference btw the hellcat and and other stock cars with a supercharger? Thanks.

 

[nico1199]

Wth my short time on this forum, I have already learned how bad the tesla fan boys are. Amusing to say the least!

 

[efusco]

Wth my short time on this forum, I have already learned how bad the tesla fan boys are. Amusing to say the least!

Totally different than any other car forum...amirite?

 

[Johan]

IDK why people get so upset or irked when they say "my car is faster than xyz car in a 0-60, 1/4mi, etc", even if they are completely wrong, it seems silly to me. Anyhow my question is what is really so special about the srt hellcat exactly, I'm asking as a question, not an insult in any way. My first major car purchase was a e92 M3 and it wasn't uncommon to see people at events with superchargers making 700hp that drove pretty well. I'm sure if you stuck radials on them they too would do similar quarter times as the hellcat. What is the groundbreaking difference btw the hellcat and and other stock cars with a supercharger? Thanks.

It's the cheapest car when you consider $/horsepower. "Affordable" stock car with a supercharger.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is a new article published by Consumer Reports- Tesla Model S P85D vs Dodge Challenger Hellcat

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...d-vs-dodge-challenger-hellcat-video/index.htm

[video]http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/4331104074001/[/video]