High maintenance car ever I owned

[ucmndd]

Unless Tesla offers emmc swap for $500, you really cannot use that figure for cost of ownership comparison. I swapped mine with a 64GB chip for less than a $100, it doesn't mean everyone can do that.

I think that’s a super goofy claim. I can only consider first party repair costs when viable third party options exist? Is that the same story for all the independent German and Japanese shops that do great work for a fraction of what BMW or Lexus would charge?

I’ll accept that not everybody can (or will really) tear apart their dash to extract the Tegra board. But everybody can drive their car to Tony’s and have him do it or find someone local to do it for them. Say that’s $500 and doubles the cost to $1,000.

 

[maximizese]

Well, facts are facts and if you say the 2013 S60 has been the "high maintenance" vehicle you've owned then there's nothing more to say; I can't well say that you're wrong and that this isn't the "high maintenance" car you've ever owned. Not to be obtuse, but you're comparing a virtually zero maintenance EV to an ICE with regular maintenance. Secondly, you're comparing a brand new car brand and complex product to a car brand known for a heritage of reliability.

I guess if we're splitting hairs here, you're conflating repairs with maintenance. However, in the end most of us are just talking about bottomline cost to the owner. I have not had your experience at all. In the 96K miles of our 2013 S85 we've had the TPMS sensors and module replaced, drive unit, HV contactors, HVAC drain hose, rear window defroster, and 12V battery replaced...all under warranty. The only extra cost to us was to replace a lost key fob and tires.

If I had your experience, I would not be happy at all. I've never owned a high maintenance vehicle and I purposely try to avoid them.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

Is there a reference somewhere that shows the cost of the ESA (and what deductibles have been) over time? I'd like to look and see if it would have been worthwhile for me.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Your incessant climate pearl clutching and hyperbole is tired and off-topic. If you think giving Tesla $5,000 is somehow better or more noble than giving the same to Greenpeace or Clean Air Task Force or frankly any other environmental charity in existence, you're fully deluded.

The level of ignorance among the public at large, and on TMC forums, never ceases to amaze.

I guess the response from some here, post-Thwaites collapse will be, "Oh, gee, I guess I was wrong." Too bad we'd be so massively screwed then, eh?

In looking at how to best deal with such commentators, we must reason at their level. Ostensibly, USA Today is written for those with an 8th Grade education; let's see if this article will help the poster grasp the situation--this ain't "clutching our climate pearls." (I so hope the 8th Grade isn't a bridge too far; let's cross our fingers.)

Thwaites has been described as one of the world's most dangerous glaciers because its demise could lead to rapid changes in global sea levels. JPL said the glacier, about the size of Florida, holds enough ice to raise ocean levels another two feet if it completely melts. It also backstops other glaciers capable to raising sea levels another eight feet.

Source:
Thwaites glacier in Antarctica melting could impact sea levels: NASA

Thankfully there are many informed people on the planet, but I fear the educated and literate may be vastly outnumbered by ignorants when even on TMC forums we continue to see posts from many that haven't a clue as to why Tesla exists. (And is almost single-handedly trying to save our entire planet.)

For those that still have an ICE vehicle in the garage, it's time to send it away to its next owner and get another Tesla--all of the informed need to double our efforts to make up for the others among us (and for those like the Lexus buyer that just don't give a damn).

Thanks!

 

[TSLA Pilot]

ROFL. He doesn't need salary given the billions in bonuses he's getting (recently unlocked one, or is about if IIRC).

Elon did risk a lot, but he also got paid and is still getting paid for that gamble. He's not doing Tesla as a charity, or a gift to the planet. Get him to sign off all of his current and future Tesla stock to some charity, maybe Bill Gates' foundation, then we can talk about his selflessness.

He's not taken a dime off the table.

Best to be factually correct before posting, especially here on a TMC Forum; _________ is a bad look:

Musk does not collect a salary at Tesla, and the company originally categorized the compensation plan — which replaced one from 2012 — as an “at-risk performance award” that “ensures [Musk] will be compensated only if Tesla and all of its shareholders do extraordinarily well.” Musk is worth around $40 billion on paper already, but has downplayed his personal wealth. He repeatedly points out that he reinvests a lot of the money he makes back into his own companies and is relatively cash poor. But he also borrows against his Tesla holdings and puts that money into his companies as well, so the more of the company he owns, the more money he could have access to in the future.

Source:
Elon Musk reaches first Tesla compensation award worth nearly $800 million

And:

The proxy letter includes, in addition to the unvested stock-option compensation, a $56,380 salary, following California's minimum-wage law. Tesla said that Musk had "not accepted his salary in the amounts of $56,380, $49,920 and $45,936 for 2018, 2017 and 2016, respectively." Musk has traditionally refused his annual paychecks from Tesla.

Source:
Elon Musk fact-checked Wikipedia and said he'd go bankrupt if his companies failed. He could be right — and it shows how complicated CEO compensation has become.

And what have you done to save an entire planet recently?

 

[ucmndd]

Oh good, you’re back. I was thinking this thread might end up staying on topic, and we can’t have that when there’s a planet to save and literally every post counts!

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Oh good, you’re back. I was thinking this thread might end up staying on topic, and we can’t have that when there’s a planet to save and literally every post counts!

And the answer to the question is, "I've done nothing. Actually, worse than nothing--I actually spew misinformation and ignorance."

Better answer: Replace all ICE with EV's, hopefully Teslas.

(And start reading the newspaper for a change.)

 

[SO16]

Someone very wise over here at TMC wrote that instead of purchasing the ESA, you can take the money destined for the ESA and put it aside on another bank account or in a shoe box inside the closet or just put the money under the mattress and use that to pay for any costs of repairs needed for your vehicle.

The best case scenario, you never need it and by the end of a 2 or 4 year period you have your money back.

Worst case scenario you need to replace the battery, both drive units, full suspension architecture and 2 MCU1's with it's IC's and you will wish you didn't take any advice from the internet.

Everything in between, is just a win-win for your wallet.

I purchased an additional 15 shares of TSLA instead of buying the ESA when I first purchase the car. So far it seems to be a good choice. I still have a few months to buy the ESA before my factory warranty expires. So that concern of saving $500 almost 4 years ago has instead given me about an additional 2 full free ESA’s. Not too bad. Who knows? Maybe instead of buying the ESA now, I should repeat and just buy more shares of TSLA instead. The car so far has been quite trouble free for 47k + miles. Can’t say the same for my other brand vehicles.

Also the battery and drivetrain does have an 8 year warranty.

 

[Knightowl]

I own a 2013 and a 2014 S85, and yeah they are the highest maintenance cost vehicles I have ever owned. But I had a 2005 dodge neon and a 2003 vw bug before as points of reference so totally different class and price point.

 

[buzescu]

Just a chime in... On a 2018 s75D in less than 2 years I got 5 headlamps, 4 struts, yellow screens(both fixed), one door handle fixed twice and 3 ghosting windshields. And I still have front rattle...most likely struts.
All these are bad parts, bad design by 3rd party or Tesla. I am amazed that after so many years these parts and many others are not rock solid.
It is an amazing car. Very hard to go back to an ICE... Unfortunately the competition is still far ...
But I agree with the post message- owning out of warranty is a big question mark.

 

[DonE]

I owned Model S 2013. In my knowledge, it has following items replaced during warranty period:

Entire 60KW battery
MCU
Drive unit

After warranty period,
MCU screen (air bubble issue) replaced: Costing $1000
Passanger side door handle stop working: Costing $350
Driver window open/close motor (regulator) failed: Costing $300
Control low voltage Battery died: Costing $275
Now MCU failed: replacement cost $2200 + taxes

This car is computer on wheels. If MCU is so unreliable, think how much this car going to cost down the road costing you out of your pocket after spending $85000 for this car.

On other hand Lexus that I owned for last 9 years. Total breakdown cost so far $600 for radiator leak besides regular maintenance.

I would suggest stay away from buying Tesla especially after warranty. Please share your thoughts.

Ll

 

[DonE]

My list is similar to the OP, save for the battery pack replacement, which is bigger than my problems. My impression from others at TMC is that I have been more unlucky than most!

[May 2014 build S-60, purchased CPO with fewer than 7000 miles on it. Currently at 94,800 miles.]

Warranty:

•Door handle: replaced by SLC UT service center because they didn't have parts for a repair. (17,197 miles)
•Failed UMC on road trip: replaced by Tigard OR service center. (28,024 miles)
•Noisy drive unit: replaced by Littleton CO service center (this was an expected repair when I purchased my used car; I got a Q version refurb DU and it has been completely quiet for more miles than the original). (40,260 miles)
•MCU failure: Mobile service didn't have a replacement in stock so they transported my car 300 miles across the mountains to Littleton and dropped off a rental car. New MCU1 with LTE installed. (44,314 miles)
•Dust shield and right front knuckle joint: replaced by Littleton CO service center. (44,314 miles)
•12V battery failure: replaced by mobile service. (45,712 miles)
•Steering bolt recall: replaced by Littleton service center. (55,020 miles)
•Lug nuts on one wheel were loose after an earlier service: took my car all the way to Littleton to make sure no damage had occurred after several thousand miles of driving before I discovered the problem, including freeway driving at 80 mph. No issues found. (57,488 miles)
•Passenger side airbag recall: replaced by mobile service. (91,863 miles)

Out of warranty:

•Door handle (same one as before): repaired by mobile service. (66,824 miles)
•Car dead and unresponsive in garage, charge cable could not be removed: had car transported 300 miles across mountains to Littleton service center. Transport quote from Tesla roadside was $1400 from a local company; they suggested that I contact my insurance company. I did that and State Farm arranged for the flatbed transport at no cost to me because Littleton was the nearest place the car could be serviced. After a wait of a few days during the end of quarter sales push, Littleton got on it the first day of the next quarter and told me that it took them nine hours to find the problem: a corroded wire to my charge port. They replaced the charge port because of cosmetic damage while they were working on it. Service comped me on all but one hour of repair time and they picked up the cost of my rental car to get to Littleton to pick up my car (my S-60 is my only car and I live alone — had to get a neighbor to take me thirty-five miles to pick up the rental). Needless to say, despite the inconvenience and worry I was very pleased with how I was treated by Littleton service. (68,468 miles)
•Door handle: repaired by mobile service. (91,863 miles)

My car has been out of warranty awhile, 38,000 miles and almost two years, but I am happy with it and hope to keep it for many years more. My battery is down about 14% in capacity, to about 179 RM, and that makes some road trip legs difficult. My inclination, however, is to have another battery installed at my expense if the range gets to be too low to be practical. As the Supercharger network increases in density, trip leg length is becoming less of a problem in most places. So far so good.

I do wish I could get the eMMC chip replaced but the idea of taking my dash apart and removing my MCU is way beyond my comfort level, especially after watching the air bag replacement. Still mulling it over, however. Tempted to make a road trip to Orange County and just drop my car off with @TonyT and rent a car until it can be fixed. It would be worth the peace-of-mind!

I own a 2013 and a 2014 S85, and yeah they are the highest maintenance cost vehicles I have ever owned. But I had a 2005 dodge neon and a 2003 vw bug before as points of reference so totally different class and price point.

 

[DonE]

I bought my wife’s 2016 MS90D when her Lexus LS460 mushroomed in maintenance cost at 60K miles. Haven’t paid for any maintenance on her MS yet.

 

[whitex]

He's not taken a dime off the table.

Best to be factually correct before posting, especially here on a TMC Forum; _________ is a bad look:

Musk does not collect a salary at Tesla, and the company originally categorized the compensation plan — which replaced one from 2012 — as an “at-risk performance award” that “ensures [Musk] will be compensated only if Tesla and all of its shareholders do extraordinarily well.” Musk is worth around $40 billion on paper already, but has downplayed his personal wealth. He repeatedly points out that he reinvests a lot of the money he makes back into his own companies and is relatively cash poor. But he also borrows against his Tesla holdings and puts that money into his companies as well, so the more of the company he owns, the more money he could have access to in the future.

Source:
Elon Musk reaches first Tesla compensation award worth nearly $800 million

And:

The proxy letter includes, in addition to the unvested stock-option compensation, a $56,380 salary, following California's minimum-wage law. Tesla said that Musk had "not accepted his salary in the amounts of $56,380, $49,920 and $45,936 for 2018, 2017 and 2016, respectively." Musk has traditionally refused his annual paychecks from Tesla.

Source:
Elon Musk fact-checked Wikipedia and said he'd go bankrupt if his companies failed. He could be right — and it shows how complicated CEO compensation has become.

Maybe his goal is to never pay regular income tax, only capital gain tax. By the way, who pays for all of his mansions (even if he owns when all, there is always property tax and upkeep), his staff (like a personal chef he uses), and other things he uses every day. I know the private Jet is covered by Tesla which costs up to a million a a year. Are you saying Tesla or Space X covers his lifestyle? Or does Elon live on $0 on food from a food bank?

And what have you done to save an entire planet recently?

Well, I drove 15 miles in a Tesla today and and 5 miles in an ICE, which I'm sure burned less gas than when Elon's jet does 20 mile hops:
Elon Musk’s private jet appears to make frivolous flights, per Washington Post
Given how much gasoline Elon burns a year just for his own transportation, I could own all Hummers and still wouldn't come close to his carbon footprint.

 

[TonyT]

My list is similar to the OP, save for the battery pack replacement, which is bigger than my problems. My impression from others at TMC is that I have been more unlucky than most!

[May 2014 build S-60, purchased CPO with fewer than 7000 miles on it. Currently at 94,800 miles.]

Warranty:

•Door handle: replaced by SLC UT service center because they didn't have parts for a repair. (17,197 miles)
•Failed UMC on road trip: replaced by Tigard OR service center. (28,024 miles)
•Noisy drive unit: replaced by Littleton CO service center (this was an expected repair when I purchased my used car; I got a Q version refurb DU and it has been completely quiet for more miles than the original). (40,260 miles)
•MCU failure: Mobile service didn't have a replacement in stock so they transported my car 300 miles across the mountains to Littleton and dropped off a rental car. New MCU1 with LTE installed. (44,314 miles)
•Dust shield and right front knuckle joint: replaced by Littleton CO service center. (44,314 miles)
•12V battery failure: replaced by mobile service. (45,712 miles)
•Steering bolt recall: replaced by Littleton service center. (55,020 miles)
•Lug nuts on one wheel were loose after an earlier service: took my car all the way to Littleton to make sure no damage had occurred after several thousand miles of driving before I discovered the problem, including freeway driving at 80 mph. No issues found. (57,488 miles)
•Passenger side airbag recall: replaced by mobile service. (91,863 miles)

Out of warranty:

•Door handle (same one as before): repaired by mobile service. (66,824 miles)
•Car dead and unresponsive in garage, charge cable could not be removed: had car transported 300 miles across mountains to Littleton service center. Transport quote from Tesla roadside was $1400 from a local company; they suggested that I contact my insurance company. I did that and State Farm arranged for the flatbed transport at no cost to me because Littleton was the nearest place the car could be serviced. After a wait of a few days during the end of quarter sales push, Littleton got on it the first day of the next quarter and told me that it took them nine hours to find the problem: a corroded wire to my charge port. They replaced the charge port because of cosmetic damage while they were working on it. Service comped me on all but one hour of repair time and they picked up the cost of my rental car to get to Littleton to pick up my car (my S-60 is my only car and I live alone — had to get a neighbor to take me thirty-five miles to pick up the rental). Needless to say, despite the inconvenience and worry I was very pleased with how I was treated by Littleton service. (68,468 miles)
•Door handle: repaired by mobile service. (91,863 miles)

My car has been out of warranty awhile, 38,000 miles and almost two years, but I am happy with it and hope to keep it for many years more. My battery is down about 14% in capacity, to about 179 RM, and that makes some road trip legs difficult. My inclination, however, is to have another battery installed at my expense if the range gets to be too low to be practical. As the Supercharger network increases in density, trip leg length is becoming less of a problem in most places. So far so good.

I do wish I could get the eMMC chip replaced but the idea of taking my dash apart and removing my MCU is way beyond my comfort level, especially after watching the air bag replacement. Still mulling it over, however. Tempted to make a road trip to Orange County and just drop my car off with @TonyT and rent a car until it can be fixed. It would be worth the peace-of-mind!

Keep your eye on the top post in the consolidated thread. We have been collecting information of people willing to help and hopefully will have someone in your area soon. If you do plan to come make sure you do while the eMMC is still healthy.
Unknown to me at the time I did a 5000 mile road trip last year with a dyeing eMMC. I even woke one morning to a blacked screen.

I purchased my car out of warranty at 120k miles. 2013 P85 in Dec 2018

Currently at 160k and had the following repairs:

• Contactor replacement (Battery warranty) Also started failing on my return trip of 5000 miles around 135k
• 12V battery replacement $300 (Street value) (Mis-diagnosed from SC)
  
• Motor replacement (Motor warranty) a few months after contactor around 140k
• Door handle repair $400 (Street value) around 140k
• eMMC replacement $800 (Street value) around 150k
• Headlight replacement $450 (Street value) around 155k

Typically I don't own cars at this high of mileage, and would not buy one at this high if it was not EV.
But I don't think this is unreasonable cost being a higher end car.
My actual cost is much less as I do all the repairs myself, and with all the savings vs gas
$3000 gas for 40 mpg $3 a gallon
$1600 electricity 3 Mile/kWH .12 kwh estimate for overnight charging

I would assume a gas car would also need similar cost of maintenance. And would not be cheap. And would not have had any warranty. I still have 1.5 years of battery and motor warranty.

I've done a lot of modifications, as upgrades, which may decrease the need for some repairs, since it was proactively taken care of.

 

[SO16]

Well, I drove 15 miles in a Tesla today and and 5 miles in an ICE, which I'm sure burned less gas than when Elon's jet does 20 mile hops:
Elon Musk’s private jet appears to make frivolous flights, per Washington Post
Given how much gasoline Elon burns a year just for his own transportation, I could own all Hummers and still wouldn't come close to his carbon footprint.

If it means he can get a lot more done in less time for goals I agree with rather than flying commercial or stuck in traffic, fine by me. His work has helped offset more of a carbon footprint each and every day than “all the hummers” combined for a year. If there was a better alternative available for both good time and low pollution, there’s a good chance he’d use it.

 

[whitex]

If it means he can get a lot more done in less time for goals I agree with rather than flying commercial or stuck in traffic, fine by me. His work has offset more of a carbon footprint each and every day than “all your hummers” combined for a year.

Just so we can get the math straight here:

1. Do we subtract the carbon credits Tesla sells to ICE companies? For every Tesla car made and its carbon credit sold, the company that bought that credit sells a gas guzzler which they couldn't sell otherwise (the carbon penalty would make the gas guzzler too expensive).
   
2. How exactly would you divide the Tesla carbon offset (that is if they have much after selling carbon credits)? Does Elon gets all the entire (remaining) carbon Tesla offset for himself, or should the Tesla offset be divided between all employees, investors, etc? I'm sure people who invest in Tesla also feel like they can burn hundreds of gallons of fuel for a 20 mile trip, because they invest in Tesla which offsets all that pollution, right? Same for employees, if they are assembling Tesla's they should feel justified for burning gas if that gets them to and from work faster (shorter to gas up the car than to charge it), no? I spent over $400K on Teslas so far, therefore I should have tons of credits to start buying gas guzzlers by that same logic.

Btw, I personally don't really care whether Elon burns hundreds of galons of fuel for a 20 mile trip, instead of having someone drive him while he takes a meeting on a back of a Model X. I was just responding to @TSLA Pilot who was trying to tell us how Elon is a saint who swore off all material goods by not taking a salary (and yet he can afford all those mansion, private jets, etc).

 

[whitex]

I think that’s a super goofy claim. I can only consider first party repair costs when viable third party options exist? Is that the same story for all the independent German and Japanese shops that do great work for a fraction of what BMW or Lexus would charge?

I’ll accept that not everybody can (or will really) tear apart their dash to extract the Tegra board. But everybody can drive their car to Tony’s and have him do it or find someone local to do it for them. Say that’s $500 and doubles the cost to $1,000.

Those independent shops can buy OEM parts from the manufactures and can do the same things that the dealerships can. So please, find us a price in the USA for MCU emmc replacement from a shop which is authorized by Tesla and is able to do re-key the car if emmc is not recoverable, etc - just like those independent shops you talk about fixing German or Japanese cars.

Tesla has a service/repair monopoly, so that's the only price you can use. You definitely cannot use how cheap it is to drive a Tesla for someone who fixes it themselves from junkyard parts. If you did, you should be able to claim that anyone can drive a Model S for $6,000, based on Rich Rebuilds Model S project, right. Wow, Teslas are so cheap, right?

 

[SO16]

Just so we can get the math straight here:

1. Do we subtract the carbon credits Tesla sells to ICE companies? For every Tesla car made and its carbon credit sold, the company that bought that credit sells a gas guzzler which they couldn't sell otherwise (the carbon penalty would make the gas guzzler too expensive).
   
2. How exactly would you divide the Tesla carbon offset (that is if they have much after selling carbon credits)? Does Elon gets all the entire (remaining) carbon Tesla offset for himself, or should the Tesla offset be divided between all employees, investors, etc? I'm sure people who invest in Tesla also feel like they can burn hundreds of gallons of fuel for a 20 mile trip, because they invest in Tesla which offsets all that pollution, right? Same for employees, if they are assembling Tesla's they should feel justified for burning gas if that gets them to and from work faster (shorter to gas up the car than to charge it), no? I spent over $400K on Teslas so far, I should have tons of credits to start buying gas guzzlers by that same logic.

Btw, I personally don't really care whether Elon burns hundreds of galons of fuel for a 20 mile trip, instead of having someone drive him while he takes a meeting on a back of a Model X. I was just responding to @TSLA Pilot who was trying to tell us how Elon is a saint who swore off all material goods by not taking a salary (and yet he can afford all those mansion, private jets, etc).

Calculate however you want. All those factory workers would be working somewhere else and therefore likely not contributing to the reduction. The guy has his faults but flying in a private jet is not one of them. Conducting meetings in the back of a Model X doesn’t exactly work too well if reviewing physical attributes at a site.

Elon is no saint. He’s human. But he’s definitely a harder worker than I am so I cut him some slack. It would be a total waste for me to fly around in a private jet. Although I certainly wouldn’t complain.

 

[SO16]

Those independent shops can buy OEM parts from the manufactures and can do the same things that the dealerships can. So please, find us a price in the USA for MCU emmc replacement from a shop which is authorized by Tesla and is able to do re-key the car if emmc is not recoverable, etc - just like those independent shops you talk about fixing German or Japanese cars.

Tesla has a service/repair monopoly, so that's the only price you can use. You definitely cannot use how cheap it is to drive a Tesla for someone who fixes it themselves from junkyard parts. If you did, you should be able to claim that anyone can drive a Model S for $6,000, based on Rich Rebuilds Model S project, right. Wow, Teslas are so cheap, right?

There needs to be more “Electrified garages” around. Rich from rich rebuilds Needs to open more locations.
But seeing as how the media and so many people are quick to pile on to any and every hiccup of a Tesla, I can understand why Tesla wants to keep repairs close to the chest. In time this will change. I suspect in another 10 years when EVs are possibly the majority of sales, the service methods will change. EVs are still just a small percentage of sales.