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Manage a photo of the CU glan, itvis a crabtree unit.

Yes, it is a Starbreaker 17th Ed board, with two RCDs. It looks as if the TWC has been installed with no RCD protection at all though. This needs to be checked, but normally those boards are laid out with the main switch on the left, as yours is, then two separately RCD protected sections, with the first RCD protecting the circuits to the right of it, up to the second RCD position (in this case the shower, outlets etc) and the second RCD protecting circuits to the right of it up to the end.

It looks very much as if the additional 32 A MCB that's been fitted is connected directly to the bus from the main switch, so there is no form of earth leakage fault protection to the charge point at all. The only circuit that should be on the non-RCD side is an alarm system, as alarms need to be on a circuit that doesn't trip, and they cannot present an electric shock hazard.

The best fix for this might be to fit an RCD in a small enclosure in the conduit run to the charge point. That would be fine in terms of compliance with the regs, as the existing 32 A MCB will provide the over-current protection to the cable, and, because there isn't (AFAIK) a Crabtree Starbreaker Type B RCD available (pretty sure Crabtree have never made one), using a standalone small enclosure means that a standard DIN rail mount RCD, with normal terminals, can be used.

Fitting a 3 module enclosure like this one for ~£11: https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-3-module-ip65-insulated-enclosure-with-visor/74436 together with a Type B RCD like this 3 module one: Type B RCD / RCCB 40A for EV Charge Point Installations. 2 pole, single phase, 30ma. 40 Amp should be fairly easy, no more than an hour's work, and with luck there will be enough slack in the cable in the conduit for all it to be wired in with the existing cable. Only sundries needed would be a couple of conduit to enclosure fittings, some wall plugs and screws.
 
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Yes, it is a Starbreaker 17th Ed board, with two RCDs. It looks as if the TWC has been installed with no RCD protection at all though. This needs to be checked, but normally those boards are laid out with the main switch on the left, as yours is, then two separately RCD protected sections, with the first RCD protecting the circuits to the right of it, up to the second RCD position (in this case the shower, outlets etc) and the second RCD protecting circuits to the right of it up to the end.

It looks very much as if the additional 32 A MCB that's been fitted is connected directly to the bus from the main switch, so there is no form of earth leakage fault protection to the charge point at all. The only circuit that should be on the non-RCD side is an alarm system, as alarms need to be on a circuit that doesn't trip, and they cannot present an electric shock hazard.

The best fix for this might be to fit an RCD in a small enclosure in the conduit run to the charge point. That would be fine in terms of compliance with the regs, as the existing 32 A MCB will provide the over-current protection to the cable, and, because there isn't (AFAIK) a Crabtree Starbreaker Type B RCD available (pretty sure Crabtree have never made one), using a standalone small enclosure means that a standard DIN rail mount RCD, with normal terminals, can be used.

Fitting a 3 module enclosure like this one for ~£11: https://www.screwfix.com/p/wylex-3-module-ip65-insulated-enclosure-with-visor/74436 together with a Type B RCD like this 3 module one: Type B RCD / RCCB 40A for EV Charge Point Installations. 2 pole, single phase, 30ma. 40 Amp should be fairly easy, no more than an hour's work, and with luck there will be enough slack in the cable in the conduit for all it to be wired in with the existing cable. Only sundries needed would be a couple of conduit to enclosure fittings, some wall plugs and screws.

Thats excellent advice Glan, I'll contact the company & get them to sort it as you describe. In the meantime am i at risk of electric shock, or put another way, what would have to go wrong to put me in immediate danger.
 
The risk is that, if the charge point, the charger in the car or, perhaps the wiring to it, developed a fault, say the CPC (the earth conductor) became disconnected, then there may be an electric shock risk from the car body. As long as the continuity of the earth connection from the car body, through the connector and back to that braided connection on the incoming supply remains intact, there's very little risk. The RCD protection is there to ensure that if more than a very small current flows to the local earth (the floor of the garage) then the power will be isolated. This threshold is set within an RCD to ~30 mA, which is considered to be less than the current that would harm someone from electric shock, plus the RCD will act very quickly (typically just a few thousandths of a second), to further minimise the risk of harm.

As long as there is no fault with the earthing of the Tesla wall connector then there's very little risk of harm.
 
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The risk is that, if the charge point, the charger in the car or, perhaps the wiring to it, developed a fault, say the CPC (the earth conductor) became disconnected, then there may be an electric shock risk from the car body. As long as the continuity of the earth connection from the car body, through the connector and back to that braided connection on the incoming supply remains intact, there's very little risk. The RCD protection is there to ensure that if more than a very small current flows to the local earth (the floor of the garage) then the power will be isolated. This threshold is set within an RCD to ~30 mA, which is considered to be less than the current that would harm someone from electric shock, plus the RCD will act very quickly (typically just a few thousandths of a second), to further minimise the risk of harm.

As long as there is no fault with the earthing of the Tesla wall connector then there's very little risk of harm.

Good morning Glan,
Thank you very much for all your knowledgeable advice, I will get the guys back to get it done properly. I should have known you only get what you pay for!
One last question, is the installation as of now outside the regulations or simply poor practice?
 
Good morning Glan,
Thank you very much for all your knowledgeable advice, I will get the guys back to get it done properly. I should have known you only get what you pay for!
One last question, is the installation as of now outside the regulations or simply poor practice?

Hope things get sorted without too much hassle.

Right now, the installation isn't compliant with the regs, as the charge point must have RCD protection, so that the power to it is isolated in the event of an earth fault. The relevant sub-sections of the regulations (BS7671:2018, Amendment 1, Section 722) that apply are:

722.531.3 Residual current devices (RCDs)

722.531.3.1 RCDs shall disconnect all live conductors.

722.531.3.101 Unless supplied by a circuit using the protective measure of electrical separation, each charging point incorporating a socket-outlet or vehicle connector complying with the BS EN 62196 series shall be protected by an RCD having a rated residual operating current not exceeding 30 mA.

Except where provided by the EV charging equipment, protection against DC fault currents shall be provided by:
(i) an RCD Type B, or
(ii) an RCD Type A or Type F in conjunction with a residual direct current detecting device (RDC-DD) complying with BS IEC 62955 as appropriate to the nature of the residual and superimposed currents and recommendation of the manufacturer of the charging equipment.

RCDs shall comply with one of the following standards: BS EN 61008-1, BS EN 61009-1, BS EN 60947-2 or BS EN 62423.

NOTE 1: Types of RCD are described in Regulation 531.3.3 in respect of their behaviour when exposed to DC components and frequencies.

NOTE 2: Requirements for the selection and erection of RCDs in the case of supplies using DC vehicle connectors according to the BS EN 62196 series are under consideration.

NOTE 3: An RCD Type A or Type F in conjunction with an RDC-DD can be arranged with the RDC-DD inside the EV charging equipment and the Type A or Type F RCD upstream in either the charging equipment or the installation.

The Tesla wall connector does not contain a "residual current detecting device" (RDC-DD) that complies with BS IEC 62955, hence the need for one to be fitted in the supply to it. Perhaps print off this section and show it to the electrician, so he/she fully understands the requirement. Some charge points, but not the TWC, do include the required protection now, so it may just be that the electrician didn't realise that a DC tolerant RCD was needed in this case.
 
Hope things get sorted without too much hassle.

Right now, the installation isn't compliant with the regs, as the charge point must have RCD protection, so that the power to it is isolated in the event of an earth fault. The relevant sub-sections of the regulations (BS7671:2018, Amendment 1, Section 722) that apply are:



The Tesla wall connector does not contain a "residual current detecting device" (RDC-DD) that complies with BS IEC 62955, hence the need for one to be fitted in the supply to it. Perhaps print off this section and show it to the electrician, so he/she fully understands the requirement. Some charge points, but not the TWC, do include the required protection now, so it may just be that the electrician didn't realise that a DC tolerant RCD was needed in this case.

Thanks Glan, yes ive printed a couple of your comments together with the regs which i intend to give to the electrician.
I'd have assumed some of this information would be included in the installation manual for the charger since its sold in the uk.
 
Thanks Glan, yes ive printed a couple of your comments together with the regs which i intend to give to the electrician.
I'd have assumed some of this information would be included in the installation manual for the charger since its sold in the uk.

This is directly from the European version of the installation instructions for the Tesla Wall Connector:

Minimum Requirements

Installation of the Wall Connector requires that you:

• Calculate the existing electrical load to determine the maximum operating current.

• Calculate the distance to ensure minimal voltage drop.

• Obtain any necessary permits from the local authority that has jurisdiction and confirm that the follow-up inspection has been scheduled by an electrician after the installation is complete.

• Use only copper conductors.

• Use conductors that are sized in accordance with local wiring regulations. The selected cable must be able to sustain periods of constant load of up to 40A.

• Use protective devices. The circuit protection device chosen must incorporate a suitable residual-current device (RCD) and overcurrent protection in relation to the electrical load selected.

Note: Consult with an electrician to ensure that the installation meets local regulations.

Note that the last bullet point requires that the installer provide both over-current and residual current protection devices. This is in addition to the requirement in the UK that all fixed wiring installations must comply with BS7671:2018, to the amendment version that is extant at the date of the installation.

It looks as if the electrician that did the installation hadn't read, or understood, both the installation instructions from Tesla and the relevant part of BS7671:2018 (section 722.531.3 covering RCDs for protecting EV charging installations).
 
@Glan gluaisne (wise old/young* person) *cross out incorrect assumption

Reading through your comments (your vast knowledge that you offer to others here, and we are greatful for it) and noticed a comment you made regards new consumer Unit install with surge protection (18th edition?)?.

Im building a garden office and will do most first fix myself (not paying electrican wages to lay wire or drill/dig holes). While I'm at it, im looking at adding a EV charger (talked about this before in another thread.)

My Consumer unit is almost full (8 way CU - 6mcb's - 2 spare, 1 RCD and 1 Main Switch)

Now my thoughts were to add a small secondary (Garage Consummer unit?) next to my main one to then feed (40m away) the new office another "Garage" Unit there, and an EV charger to the front of my house (4m away). But thinking about it, it seems more sensible to upgrade my Main CU to a 10 way Hager unit with dual RCD. This then could feed the house via 1 RCD, Office via another and an EV charger using a 40amp RCBO? (Looking at the cheap 18th Edition QUBEV as your option 4 in the other thread)

So do i need a 18th Edition Consummer Unit (with surge protection?) as its a new CU or not as its an upgrade?

Ps - I work in construction so have some great contacts in the elec world - ones offered to finish and sign the work off. Not asked them for advice yet as only half way through building the office and not water tight just yet. Also not laid the SWA cable for the office yet. EV charger cable from main unit to where ev charger would go is only 4m.

Also think you mention a 40amp MCB is only required with this (might be wrong) but the website that sells the QUBEV sells it with an optional 40 amp RCBO - link below - just seeing whats correct before pressing the buy now button.

QUBEV - EV Charging Unit | Type 2 Socket | 32 Amp/7.2 kW | IP65 |
 
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@Glan gluaisne (wise old/young* person) *cross out incorrect assumption

Reading through your comments (your vast knowledge that you offer to others here, and we are greatful for it) and noticed a comment you made regards new consumer Unit install with surge protection (18th edition?)?.

Im building a garden office and will do most first fix myself (not paying electrican wages to lay wire or drill/dig holes). While I'm at it, im looking at adding a EV charger (talked about this before in another thread.)

My Consumer unit is almost full (8 way CU - 6mcb's - 2 spare, 1 RCD and 1 Main Switch)

Now my thoughts were to add a small secondary (Garage Consummer unit?) next to my main one to then feed (40m away) the new office another "Garage" Unit there, and an EV charger to the front of my house (4m away). But thinking about it, it seems more sensible to upgrade my Main CU to a 10 way Hager unit with dual RCD. This then could feed the house via 1 RCD, Office via another and an EV charger using a 40amp RCBO? (Looking at the cheap 18th Edition QUBEV as your option 4 in the other thread)

So do i need a 18th Edition Consummer Unit (with surge protection?) as its a new CU or not as its an upgrade?

Ps - I work in construction so have some great contacts in the elec world - ones offered to finish and sign the work off. Not asked them for advice yet as only half way through building the office and not water tight just yet. Also not laid the SWA cable for the office yet. EV charger cable from main unit to where ev charger would go is only 4m.

Also think you mention a 40amp MCB is only required with this (might be wrong) but the website that sells the QUBEV sells it with an optional 40 amp RCBO - link below - just seeing whats correct before pressing the buy now button.

QUBEV - EV Charging Unit | Type 2 Socket | 32 Amp/7.2 kW | IP65 |

Thanks for the kind words - relatively old person here . . . :)

Either replacing the existing CU, or fitting a small additional CU for the garden office are OK as far as the regs go. If you choose to change the main CU for a larger one, then it needs to comply with the current regs, essentially a metal one, with RCD protection to all circuits, with only minor exceptions, like alarm circuits.

Looking at what's needed for a new CU for the whole installation, then you have a couple of options with regard to residual current/earth fault protection. You can opt to fit a split board, that has one half of the installation protected by one RCD, the other half protected by a second RCD. The advantage of this is primarily cost, it's usually the cheapest option. The disadvantages are that you still lose half the circuits if there's an earth leakage fault somewhere, plus there is a risk that you may get nuisance tripping. The latter point is becoming more of an issue, as we have more devices that have an inherent earth leakage current. Pretty much all devices that use inverters or switched mode power supplies introduce a bit of earth leakage, usually through the interference suppression circuits. Normally this doesn't matter too much, but with enough appliances like this connected it is possible to get up to the leakage current at which a 30 mA RCD will trip, which may well be around 22 mA to 25 mA. For example, the normal earth leakage current for our house installation is around 19.5 mA, so it wouldn't take much more to get an RCD to trip.

One way around this is to fit RCBOs, in place of two RCDs and a bank of MCBs. This is more expensive, but does mean that each circuit is individually protected against both over-current and earth leakage faults. The advantages are that the cumulative normal earth leakage will now be spread across several RCBOs, significantly reducing the probability of nuisance tripping, if a circuit does trip, all the others keep working and you know roughly where the problem is, and finally, an all-RCBO board can be more compact, as there won't be a couple of big RCDs in it. The disadvantage is really just cost, as compact RCBOs are more expensive than MCBs by a fair bit. FWIW, I fitted an all-RCBO board when we built this house, as in my view it's the best solution (it also means I'm biased). One requirement in the 18th Ed is for the leakage current to be checked, primarily to determine if there might be an issue with future nuisance tripping. The maximum permitted value for any one RCD is now set at 30% of the nominal trip current, so just 9 mA for a 30 mA RCD, or a total of 18 mA for a typical dual RCD board. Some installations may exceed this, in my experience (ours would, for example).

Moving on to surge protection and arc fault protection, then both are recommended, but not necessarily mandatory. In the case of surge protection, the installer is supposed to survey the installation and do a risk assessment. This is detailed in section 443.5 of BS7671:2018, and depends on your location (because it uses a lightning flash density map) and also needs the length of the supply cable to the property. If the Calculated Risk Level (CRL) is > or = 1000 then a Surge Protection Device (SPD) is not required, less than 1000 and one is required. I doubt that any electrician bothers to do this risk assessment, they will probably just fit a board with an SPD as it's easier for them. The advantage of an SPD is that it may provide a degree of additional protection to voltage sensitive equipment for the rare times there might be a lightning flash nearby, although often decent equipment will already have this protection built in. The main disadvantage is that surge protectors have a finite life, so need replacing periodically, typically about every three years. My personal view is that I'm on the fence about fitting them to a board unless the CRL indicates an SPD is needed. I doubt many people will check them, so in all probability they may well stop working after a time, anyway.

Arc fault protection, provided by an AFDD, is recommended to mitigate thermal effects from arcing within connections or appliances. Probably of more relevance to installations with a fair bit of switchgear, but perhaps worth considering. It's only a recommendation for domestic supplies at the moment, and given that, for a domestic installation, the most likely cause of arcing is probably a poor connection somewhere in the installation itself (loose terminal screws, etc) then my view is that it's better to concentrate on regular inspection and test of the installation, such that any potential arc sources are detected and corrected before they present a problem. AFDDs are an additional level of detection aimed at installations that may not be inspected as regularly as they should (there is a requirement that domestic installations are inspected and tested not less than every ten years). I'm biased again, as I tend to inspect and test our installation every four or five years, so my view is that an AFDD isn't necessary, but I do know from experience that there are many installations around that go for decades without any form of inspection or testing, so maybe an AFDD does make some sense for those.

For protection for the Qubev charge point, the one with integral open PEN and DC residual current protection, then it needs upstream over current and residual current protection, but this can be just a Type A RCD and Type B MCB, or an RCBO with those characteristics. If connecting the charge point to an existing CU, that already provides RCD protection, then only an MCB should be used, as it's good practice to ensure that RCDs in series have discrimination. This means, for example, that an installation that has a 100 mA trip current RCD on the incoming supply (commonly found with TT installations) can have 30 mA trip current RCDs protecting circuits downstream, as the differing trip currents provide discrimination (the 30 mA one will trip before the 100 mA one).

If you decide to fit an additional small CU, fed from the incoming supply, then a 40 A RCBO is fine. If you choose to feed the charge point from a new CU, that already has RCD protection, then all that's needed for the charge point is an MCB, as it isn't good practice to have two 30 mA trip current residual current devices in series (hope this makes sense!). If you opt to fit a new CU, and also opt to make it an all-RCBO units, then as long as you use double pole RCBOs, you can just add one to supply the charge point.

On the topic of single pole versus double pole, then double pole, or at least 1P+N, RCBOs are very much better than single pole RCBOs. There are two or three suppliers of DP miniature RCBOs now, and they make for a neat and compact installation, as well as providing enhanced safety, by isolating both the line and neutral to each circuit. 1P + N RCBOs isolate both line and neutral, but only sense current on the line side. In my view that's fine in a domestic installation, as there's not often a situation where the overload current in the neutral will be greater than that in the line.

When it comes to recommendations for what brand etc to fit, then a few years ago I'd have said Hager was probably the best. Recently there's a relative newcomer that's come along and is producing some very well designed consumer units, Fusebox. I looked at one of these a few months ago, on a new build, and was very impressed. Easy to install, and not too expensive. An unpopulated 13 way all RCBO board, with isolator switch and SPD, is around £90. They do some very neat 2 pole RCBOs to fit this board for about £18 each. I've no connection with them at all, I just happened to see one and thought it was a nice bit of kit.
 
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Thanks for the kind words - relatively old person here . . . :)

Either replacing the existing CU, or fitting a small additional CU for the garden office are OK as far as the regs go. If you choose to change the main CU for a larger one, then it needs to comply with the current regs, essentially a metal one, with RCD protection to all circuits, with only minor exceptions, like alarm circuits.

Looking at what's needed for a new CU for the whole installation, then you have a couple of options with regard to residual current/earth fault protection. You can opt to fit a split board, that has one half of the installation protected by one RCD, the other half protected by a second RCD. The advantage of this is primarily cost, it's usually the cheapest option. The disadvantages are that you still lose half the circuits if there's an earth leakage fault somewhere, plus there is a risk that you may get nuisance tripping. The latter point is becoming more of an issue, as we have more devices that have an inherent earth leakage current. Pretty much all devices that use inverters or switched mode power supplies introduce a bit of earth leakage, usually through the interference suppression circuits. Normally this doesn't matter too much, but with enough appliances like this connected it is possible to get up to the leakage current at which a 30 mA RCD will trip, which may well be around 22 mA to 25 mA. For example, the normal earth leakage current for our house installation is around 19.5 mA, so it wouldn't take much more to get an RCD to trip.

One way around this is to fit RCBOs, in place of two RCDs and a bank of MCBs. This is more expensive, but does mean that each circuit is individually protected against both over-current and earth leakage faults. The advantages are that the cumulative normal earth leakage will now be spread across several RCBOs, significantly reducing the probability of nuisance tripping, if a circuit does trip, all the others keep working and you know roughly where the problem is, and finally, an all-RCBO board can be more compact, as there won't be a couple of big RCDs in it. The disadvantage is really just cost, as compact RCBOs are more expensive than MCBs by a fair bit. FWIW, I fitted an all-RCBO board when we built this house, as in my view it's the best solution (it also means I'm biased). One requirement in the 18th Ed is for the leakage current to be checked, primarily to determine if there might be an issue with future nuisance tripping. The maximum permitted value for any one RCD is now set at 30% of the nominal trip current, so just 9 mA for a 30 mA RCD, or a total of 18 mA for a typical dual RCD board. Some installations may exceed this, in my experience (ours would, for example).

Moving on to surge protection and arc fault protection, then both are recommended, but not necessarily mandatory. In the case of surge protection, the installer is supposed to survey the installation and do a risk assessment. This is detailed in section 443.5 of BS7671:2018, and depends on your location (because it uses a lightning flash density map) and also needs the length of the supply cable to the property. If the Calculated Risk Level (CRL) is > or = 1000 then a Surge Protection Device (SPD) is not required, less than 1000 and one is required. I doubt that any electrician bothers to do this risk assessment, they will probably just fit a board with an SPD as it's easier for them. The advantage of an SPD is that it may provide a degree of additional protection to voltage sensitive equipment for the rare times there might be a lightning flash nearby, although often decent equipment will already have this protection built in. The main disadvantage is that surge protectors have a finite life, so need replacing periodically, typically about every three years. My personal view is that I'm on the fence about fitting them to a board unless the CRL indicates an SPD is needed. I doubt many people will check them, so in all probability they may well stop working after a time, anyway.

Arc fault protection, provided by an AFDD, is recommended to mitigate thermal effects from arcing within connections or appliances. Probably of more relevance to installations with a fair bit of switchgear, but perhaps worth considering. It's only a recommendation for domestic supplies at the moment, and given that, for a domestic installation, the most likely cause of arcing is probably a poor connection somewhere in the installation itself (loose terminal screws, etc) then my view is that it's better to concentrate on regular inspection and test of the installation, such that any potential arc sources are detected and corrected before they present a problem. AFDDs are an additional level of detection aimed at installations that may not be inspected as regularly as they should (there is a requirement that domestic installations are inspected and tested not less than every ten years). I'm biased again, as I tend to inspect and test our installation every four or five years, so my view is that an AFDD isn't necessary, but I do know from experience that there are many installations around that go for decades without any form of inspection or testing, so maybe an AFDD does make some sense for those.

For protection for the Qubev charge point, the one with integral open PEN and DC residual current protection, then it needs upstream over current and residual current protection, but this can be just a Type A RCD and Type B MCB, or an RCBO with those characteristics. If connecting the charge point to an existing CU, that already provides RCD protection, then only an MCB should be used, as it's good practice to ensure that RCDs in series have discrimination. This means, for example, that an installation that has a 100 mA trip current RCD on the incoming supply (commonly found with TT installations) can have 30 mA trip current RCDs protecting circuits downstream, as the differing trip currents provide discrimination (the 30 mA one will trip before the 100 mA one).

If you decide to fit an additional small CU, fed from the incoming supply, then a 40 A RCBO is fine. If you choose to feed the charge point from a new CU, that already has RCD protection, then all that's needed for the charge point is an MCB, as it isn't good practice to have two 30 mA trip current residual current devices in series (hope this makes sense!). If you opt to fit a new CU, and also opt to make it an all-RCBO units, then as long as you use double pole RCBOs, you can just add one to supply the charge point.

On the topic of single pole versus double pole, then double pole, or at least 1P+N, RCBOs are very much better than single pole RCBOs. There are two or three suppliers of DP miniature RCBOs now, and they make for a neat and compact installation, as well as providing enhanced safety, by isolating both the line and neutral to each circuit. 1P + N RCBOs isolate both line and neutral, but only sense current on the line side. In my view that's fine in a domestic installation, as there's not often a situation where the overload current in the neutral will be greater than that in the line.

When it comes to recommendations for what brand etc to fit, then a few years ago I'd have said Hager was probably the best. Recently there's a relative newcomer that's come along and is producing some very well designed consumer units, Fusebox. I looked at one of these a few months ago, on a new build, and was very impressed. Easy to install, and not too expensive. An unpopulated 13 way all RCBO board, with isolator switch and SPD, is around £90. They do some very neat 2 pole RCBOs to fit this board for about £18 each. I've no connection with them at all, I just happened to see one and thought it was a nice bit of kit.
Many thanks for your time putting together a very comprehensive response.

I will have a look at Fusebox and work out costs with RCBOs

It would be the QUBEV 18th with DC protection so MCB 40amp seems fine if adding to a separate CU (garage version)
 
Many thanks for your time putting together a very comprehensive response.

I will have a look at Fusebox and work out costs with RCBOs

It would be the QUBEV 18th with DC protection so MCB 40amp seems fine if adding to a separate CU (garage version)

No problem, happy to try and help.

If you decide to stick with your existing CU and just add a smaller one to supply the garden office and charge point, then you can just use the RCD in the secondary CU, plus a 40 A MCB, to feed the charge point, as you suggest. Best to choose one with a Type A RCD, rather than a Type AC, although it's getting harder to find Type AC RCDs now, they've pretty much all changed to Type A.

I've had a quick poke around the web, and this place seems to have pretty good prices on CUs and RCBOs: CP Fusebox 18th Edition Consumer Units, RCBOs, MCBs, RCDs & Surge Protection

Not sure how many ways you need, but if you have a couple spare on your existing 8 way board, then maybe a 9 way board would be OK, 6 for your existing circuits, one for the charge point and one or two for the garden office. If it were me, then I'd just run one cable to the garden office, and then fuse down the lighting side to 6 A in the office itself. You could either fit a small garage type CU in the office, with, say, a 16 A or 20 A radial feed for outlets, plus a 6 A lighting circuit, or you could just rely on the over current protection on the cable feeding the office for the outlets, and fuse down the lighting circuit with a fused switch. I've done the latter a few times in garages and sheds, where there's been a single protected run of 2.5mm² to the garage, running a couple of outlets, and the owner's wanted to add a light. Easier to just fit a fused switch for the light switch than install a garage consumer unit. Our garden shed light is wired like this.
 
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No problem, happy to try and help.

If you decide to stick with your existing CU and just add a smaller one to supply the garden office and charge point, then you can just use the RCD in the secondary CU, plus a 40 A MCB, to feed the charge point, as you suggest. Best to choose one with a Type A RCD, rather than a Type AC, although it's getting harder to find Type AC RCDs now, they've pretty much all changed to Type A.

I've had a quick poke around the web, and this place seems to have pretty good prices on CUs and RCBOs: CP Fusebox 18th Edition Consumer Units, RCBOs, MCBs, RCDs & Surge Protection

Not sure how many ways you need, but if you have a couple spare on your existing 8 way board, then maybe a 9 way board would be OK, 6 for your existing circuits, one for the charge point and one or two for the garden office. If it were me, then I'd just run one cable to the garden office, and then fuse down the lighting side to 6 A in the office itself. You could either fit a small garage type CU in the office, with, say, a 16 A or 20 A radial feed for outlets, plus a 6 A lighting circuit, or you could just rely on the over current protection on the cable feeding the office for the outlets, and fuse down the lighting circuit with a fused switch. I've done the latter a few times in garages and sheds, where there's been a single protected run of 2.5mm² to the garage, running a couple of outlets, and the owner's wanted to add a light. Easier to just fit a fused switch for the light switch than install a garage consumer unit. Our garden shed light is wired like this.
Many thanks again and thanks for the link.

Was thinking of using a small 3 module unit in the office with a 6amp for lighting and 32 for power (only 2 double sockets) and elec heater . I did think of keeping it even simpler as you mentioned with fuse off the power circuit for lighting.

I'll jump back to my design, calcs and budget and work out best route
 
32 A is probably overkill for the office outlets, as there's no real need for a ring final, perhaps easier to just run a 16 A or 20 A radial in 2.5mm. Probably needs either a 4mm or 6mm run of cable to the office (depends on the distance and voltage drop). As a guide to protecting the supply cable to the office, then 20 A is OK to protect 2.5mm, 32 A is OK to protect 4mm, 40 A for 6mm.

We can only get away with using 32 A protection on 2.5mm ring finals because there are effectively two cables in parallel in a ring, so the normal max rating of the cable (27 A) is effectively doubled (in theory). In practice, rings can be broken from loose connections, with no indication there's anything wrong, and with the potential for the circuit to be overloaded, without the over-current protection operating. It's the main reason I don't much like ring finals, and would rather we adopted the system used just about everywhere else in the world, with multiple radial power circuits.
 
32 A is probably overkill for the office outlets, as there's no real need for a ring final, perhaps easier to just run a 16 A or 20 A radial in 2.5mm. Probably needs either a 4mm or 6mm run of cable to the office (depends on the distance and voltage drop). As a guide to protecting the supply cable to the office, then 20 A is OK to protect 2.5mm, 32 A is OK to protect 4mm, 40 A for 6mm.

We can only get away with using 32 A protection on 2.5mm ring finals because there are effectively two cables in parallel in a ring, so the normal max rating of the cable (27 A) is effectively doubled (in theory). In practice, rings can be broken from loose connections, with no indication there's anything wrong, and with the potential for the circuit to be overloaded, without the over-current protection operating. It's the main reason I don't much like ring finals, and would rather we adopted the system used just about everywhere else in the world, with multiple radial power circuits.

Yep circuits will be radial and not ring. It's a simple circuit and want to keep it simple. 32 was used as the garage unit I looked at came with it. 6 for lighting and 32 for power. But don't mind spending £3 on a 20amp MCB. I'm using 4mm swa to the office and calculated volt drop at 3% so is within limits. No plans to upgrade as it's an office only and laptops is all that will be used.

Found a cheap website for fusebox expertelectrical.co.uk and prices seem competitive. Found the type A rcbo £12.72

Thanks again
 
The rule for selecting over current protection is that it's the cable that's being protected, so the MCB has to be selected to protect the cable in its installed location. For example, the maximum rating of 2.5mm T&E is 27 A when clipped direct, but this has to be de-rated, in accordance with the regs, for different installation conditions, so, for example, if laid within 100mm of insulation (such as across a loft) the rating drops to ~21 A (guess from memory- I don't have the regs on this laptop . . .).

In general, it's usually always OK to protect a 2.5mm radial with a 16 A MCB, sometimes it's OK to use a 20 A MCB, but it's never OK to use a 32 A MCB.
 
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Just had a look at that supplier site, and these RCBOs: FuseBox Single Pole RCBO's Type A are single pole, and are the older, larger, ones. They are OK for protecting some circuits, but the outdoor supplies, including the charge point, must have double pole protection, so need this type: FuseBox Mini RCBO's Type A & AC

In addition to the double pole ones providing better protection, they are also a lot shorter, which makes a significant difference when wiring up the board, as they give more room at the top to route all the wires neatly. Our all-RCBO board was installed before the compact RCBOs were available, and it was a real PITA trying to get all the wires in place, due to the extra length of the RCBOs compared to MCBs (the boxes are designed for MCBs). The compact double pole Fusebox RCBOs are the same dimensions as MCBs, which makes life a fair bit easier.

Other things you'll need (unless they come with the board) is a tails gland, some grommet strip to go around the cable cutouts and some fireproof sealant, as CUs are now required to be fire sealed, so no gaps around cables.
 
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Just had a look at that supplier site, and these RCBOs: FuseBox Single Pole RCBO's Type A are single pole, and are the older, larger, ones. They are OK for protecting some circuits, but the outdoor supplies, including the charge point, must have double pole protection, so need this type: FuseBox Mini RCBO's Type A & AC

In addition to the double pole ones providing better protection, they are also a lot shorter, which makes a significant difference when wiring up the board, as they give more room at the top to route all the wires neatly. Our all-RCBO board was installed before the compact RCBOs were available, and it was a real PITA trying to get all the wires in place, due to the extra length of the RCBOs compared to MCBs (the boxes are designed for MCBs). The compact double pole Fusebox RCBOs are the same dimensions as MCBs, which makes life a fair bit easier.

Other things you'll need (unless they come with the board) is a tails gland, some grommet strip to go around the cable cutouts and some fireproof sealant, as CUs are now required to be fire sealed, so no gaps around cables.
Many thanks for all the tips

Will leave all the extras/RCBO's to the Pro when he does his 2nd fix and final connections so is fully compliant to Part P. Just gives me a good guide to costs and roughly whats needed.
 
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I've got a quote from an independent electrician which seems ok to me price wise. He's going to perform the below;

The work I have quoted; is to install a small new CP Electrical Fusebox consumer unit underneath your current MK consumer unit. This will require moving the Henley block to the left and replacing the main tails to allow for this. The new consumer unit will have an A rated RCD and a 40A MCB as required by the manufacturer.

I will then install a 6mm 3 core armoured out of the bottom the EV Consumer unit and cleated along the wall to then exit the building where it will be cleated to the front of the house and the along the garden side wall all the way to the front garden wall where the EV charger will be located.

I will then be installing an earth rod into the ground and clipping a 10mm earth cable around to the charger and this will be used as the sole means of earthing.


@Glan gluaisne does that look ok to you?
 
I've got a quote from an independent electrician which seems ok to me price wise. He's going to perform the below;

The work I have quoted; is to install a small new CP Electrical Fusebox consumer unit underneath your current MK consumer unit. This will require moving the Henley block to the left and replacing the main tails to allow for this. The new consumer unit will have an A rated RCD and a 40A MCB as required by the manufacturer.

I will then install a 6mm 3 core armoured out of the bottom the EV Consumer unit and cleated along the wall to then exit the building where it will be cleated to the front of the house and the along the garden side wall all the way to the front garden wall where the EV charger will be located.

I will then be installing an earth rod into the ground and clipping a 10mm earth cable around to the charger and this will be used as the sole means of earthing.


@Glan gluaisne does that look ok to you?

Sounds OK, but the RCD must be a Type B, not a Type A. This will mean using a slightly larger additional CU, perhaps, as Type B RCDs are typically at least 3 module width, rather than the 2 module width for a Type A.

Type B RCDs are far more expensive than Type As, the best value I've found is from here: Type B RCD / RCCB 40A for EV Charge Point Installations. 2 pole, single phase, 30ma. 40 Amp
 
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