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Home Charging cost Ontario

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Darthbenji, May 7, 2018.

  1. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

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    Assuming you charge the model 3 at home overnight, does anyone know the approx cost of a full charge? Basically what are those 499kms costing in electricity in Ontario during the overnight hours?
     
  2. ZooSean

    ZooSean ZOO

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    0.065 per kw plus 0.02 delivery and fees, and times 75kwh Model 3 battery size.

    If you are in powerstream region and sign up advanced time based schedule , then 0.065 will be 0.02. But subscription is closed.
     
  3. darkenergy

    darkenergy Member

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    About $6.

    Of course you're unlikely to be filling from empty. We do about 2000km per month in our Smart EV. About 40% of that is charged at my wife's office and the rest costs us us about $20 per month. The Model 3 should be a bit more expensive.
     
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  4. rdturner0

    rdturner0 Member

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    75 kWh (full battery capacity) will use approximately 83 kWh of electricity to charge (roughly 90% efficiency is typical).

    Hydro rates vary across Ontario depending on your supplier, so check your electricity bill for details. Also, make sure you factor in the total cost of the electricity (best done over a year -- although it will be harder to separate the "overhead" from the generation costs) instead of just looking at the generation cost per kWh (which is usually what's quoted). Delivery and other charges are often separate. Most electricity suppliers in Ontario have really good data available to customers on their usage, costs, etc. I know the data I get from my supplier is quite extensive to assist you in tracking and projecting costs and usage.

    Note that the Time of Use (TOU) rates typically only apply to the electricity supply cost -- other costs (such as transmission, etc.) typically do not vary by time of day (thus they are typically either per account, per month, a percentage of costs (such as taxes) or per kWh consumed). As such, it can be hard to calculate a real cost of your charges without some form of amortisation of other costs, which will be specific to your usage patterns and your supplier's terms.

    I have previously calculated my projected costs, and I expect it will cost me roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost of gasoline (at current prices) to "power" the Model 3 as opposed to fuelling a car similar to a Toyota Corolla (around 7 litres/100km). I am on Hydro Ottawa (which I have heard is about half the cost of Hydro One on average, but not close the almost free numbers seanxushen quotes for PowerStream).
     
  5. ZooSean

    ZooSean ZOO

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    #5 ZooSean, May 7, 2018
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
    Mine is not free either, 0.02 need plus 0.02 delivery and fees.

    What’s the current gas rate 1.2? for 500km , you need 35 lite, =42$, 0.085*85=7.2$ , did I miss anything? Looks to me not 1/3,1/4 but 1/6
     
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  6. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    You will rarely, if ever, charge from zero. I have a S90D and my monthly charging cost is between $35-$40 or just over $1.00 per day.
     
  7. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

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    Yes but what’s your cost per km in Ontario? How much do you drive? I’m about 2000-2500 month. I agree charging from empty is rare but I’m trying to figure the approx cost of 500kms worth of charge.
     
  8. 03DSG

    03DSG Active Member

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    In Cobourg if I take the off peak rate (7pm to 7am) and add the distribution/regulatory cost and tax to it it works out to .137 cents per kWh. Basically .065 tou + .072 dist/reg/tax. So .137 x 60 kWh = $8.22. So about $11.50 for 500 km at 6km/kWh.
     
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  9. rdturner0

    rdturner0 Member

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    My original numbers were from memory from a few years back, and with a Model S I think -- probably should have redone them. And I think I used average electricity price, not the lowest tier in the TOU rates (I was doing carbon cost calculations for my whole home, etc -- so cars weren't really the focus at the time, so I just used an average rate for the electricity as I was applying it to the heating, etc.).

    My numbers today would look similar to 03DSG's numbers based on my local rates, as such, would still put it around the 1/4 mark...
     
  10. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    There are guys on this forum who will give you the exact math but my *guess* would be between $3-$5 a day if charging overnight at $0.065.
     
  11. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

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    So $90-$150 for 2200-2500 a month?
    My gas costs now are about $220
     
  12. ZooSean

    ZooSean ZOO

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    Let’s redo the calculations based on all info above base rate 0.065 per kWh plus 0.056 distribution times HST , we got roughly 0.14 per kWh. As above to fully charge Model 3 from zero to full, we need 83kwh of electricity, that’s 11.62$ per full charge. That is 58.1 per 2500 km .

    Did I miss anything?
     
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  13. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    That is exactly what we pay here as well, in Owen Sound. We are on Hydro One. So basically about 1/5 or 1/6 of what we used to pay to fill up our old gas SUV, at 65 or 70 dollars a pop, which had maybe another 25 to 30 % range over the Model S. Which comes out to costing about 25% of what it cost us in gas. (I am including the assumption of about 10% inefficiency in charging).

    I figure that with the mileage on our Model S, we have saved at least $8500.00 but that includes about $2000.00 in “free” charging on long trips using Superchargers and destination chargers. So, in a Model 3 without the free Supercharging we would have saved about $6500.00 over the last 3 years.
     
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  14. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I retired at the end of 2015 where I was Vice President at an Ontario electric utility in charge of Metering, Billing and Conservation Programs. So I know a little something about rate design. Where I live, my current all-in, loss adjusted, tax included rates are as follows:

    Off Peak: $0.0974 / kWh
    Mid Peak: $0.1289 / kWh
    On Peak: $0.1702 / kWh

    I am in an urban area, so anyone living in a city or town (i.e. not Hydro One rural) will be paying something very close to this.

    The OP was asking how much to charge from empty to full.That is a bit of a trick question in that you actually never do that, and there is a bit more electricity use than just the usable capacity of the battery due to charging system losses. Also, I am not familiar with what the usable capacity of the Long Range battery is. If you know the usable battery capacity, add maybe 10% for charging losses and multiply by the above rates, you should get a pretty close approximation.
     
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  15. Darthbenji

    Darthbenji Member

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    Hey sorry. I didn’t mean to ask a trick question. I was having a hard time finding straight info on what it would cost to drive the 499 kms the LR is rated for. I live in Orangeville and looking at my bill doesn’t give you the actual per kw/h charge. Off peak is 6.5 cents and the extra charges aren’t broken down. Your numbers are exactly what I’m looking for cause they include everything.
     
  16. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Any question regarding Ontario electricity rates is a trick question. o_O Electricity rates are far too complex for the average user to understand, and there are somewhat "hidden" factors, like the utility specific loss factor, that complicate things even further. Like you, I wanted an "all-in" rate to give me a kind of gas station model for pricing. To do this, I had to use spreadsheets and download the utility's OEB-approved rate application to get all the numbers and pull it all together into a single number similar to how gasoline is priced.
     
  17. DMC-Orangeville

    DMC-Orangeville 85D and John Deere 5100E

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    Orangeville here (well,Mono)
    My Hydro 1 rates are marginally higher than @mknox quoted, and I use the mid-peak value of .15/kwh to do any of my calculations. I drive to Mississauga for work 5 days a week, and average 2500 km @ 190w/km (lower in summer/higher in winter). 2500*190/1000 = 475KW*.15 = $71.25/month. That is fairly close to the increase I saw after installing my HPWC.
    Compared to my old Lincoln @ $350/month gas. Ratio is about 5:1 in cost Gas:electricity.

    Your 3 should be the same, probably better

    You will rarely range charge; if nearly empty you go from 10% to 90% range = 50KM to 450 KM max (approximate) = 400 KM of range. @190 w/km * .15 = $11.40. Note: this is for an 85D Model S. YMMV.
     
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  18. noicepls

    noicepls Member

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    Like your Model S, the Model 3 will also get free charging at destination chargers in ON, right? If so, then your $2,000 figure should still benefit the Model 3, IMO.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  19. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    Except much of the charging was at Superchargers. For instance, driving to NS the last Supercharger is in Riviére du Loup, so it is all free Supercharging until we generally stay overnight in a hotel in mid NB with a charger. So my entire trip does not cost me anything but with a Model 3 up until the NB stopover it would cost at the Superchargers. But definitely, even some of that $2000.00 would be savings in the Model 3. But even just taking the $6500.00 as a minimum, there really are considerable savings by driving a Tesla. And that is just over 3 years, putting about 72,000 km on the car. So over a longer period of time, let’s say ten years, we are talking something like $20,000.00. Which is not peanuts.
     
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  20. Struja

    Struja "Fanboy"

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    I am sure this is very useful, if I could only translate it!!!
     

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