How are Europeans liking Model 3?

[Perry]

Curious what the European's think of the Model 3's driving performance is on the autobahn as compared to the ICE cars they've been driving. Here in the US, we seldom if ever have an opportunity to open up the car to its highest speed, let alone for a sustained period of time. From the few videos I've seen online from Germany, the Model 3 picked up quite well but was challenged when sustaining high speed, encountering numerous slow-down / recover events. In one of the clearest examples, the car was limited to about 90 kmh for a short period while cooling down (check nextmove on YouTube and enable subtitles for translation). Here is an example:

I don't believe the Model 3 was designed for the German autobahn and struggles to compete with high-end ICE equivalents for sustained high speed driving, but for most of us living outside of Germany, this is not something we would ever encounter. I would love the opportunity for there to be a highspeed freeway system here in the US, but its doubtful this will ever happen. Until then, the only way for Americans to test the full capabilities of our cars safely and legally is on a racetrack.

As an aside, I got to spend quite a bit of time with the formula-E racing team from NIO (all industry veterans who've come over from other manufacturers.) One of the points they stressed to me was how Tesla needed to improve on thermal management in their batteries as it relates to racing performance. It was pretty clear to me that they completely reverse engineered the Tesla during their analysis. Of course, the Tesla was not designed to compete with formula-E, but I'd expected it to do better with its new battery design on the Model-3. That said, it still is an impressive car.

None of this limitation would have happened if he used Track Mode on the autobahn.

 

[voip-ninja]

None of this limitation would have happened if he used Track Mode on the autobahn.

Track mode pre-cools the battery but eventually the thermal limiting will still kick in. The bottom line is that Tesla still don't have a car that can handle the sustained very high speeds that a large track or public roads with sections with no limit like autobahn allow.

 

[Perry]

Track mode pre-cools the battery but eventually the thermal limiting will still kick in. The bottom line is that Tesla still don't have a car that can handle the sustained very high speeds that a large track or public roads with sections with no limit like autobahn allow.

It not only pre-cools but also puts the cooling on overdrive maintaining the battery cool. I know because I put my car through a much more arduous test than that guy on the Autobahn. He was able to get 80+ miles from his full battery. In my test I had an average consumption of 1211 Wh/mi lowering my total range to only 60 miles and still did not get any acceleration limitation (dots) with Track Mode on.

 

[StealthP3D]

Track mode pre-cools the battery but eventually the thermal limiting will still kick in. The bottom line is that Tesla still don't have a car that can handle the sustained very high speeds that a large track or public roads with sections with no limit like autobahn allow.

Track mode "supercharges" the cooling system. It overdrives the a/c pump, the coolant pump and fans so the benefit extends beyond a simple pre-cooling. It's also likely that Track Mode sets higher thermal limits before limiting peak power. On a cool day, you would be shocked at how good the endurance of the Model 3 is with Track Mode engaged.

 

[SMAlset]

....As the numbers of deliveries increased, Swiss Tesla Owners Clubs started to support deliveries in Zurich by offering a bit more handling instructions for those that did not feel at ease with the minimal training offered during delivery. I served myself two days in this way ....

Thanks for your feedback. Interesting read. Especially loved hearing the above. When I went for my delivery in Fremont there were owner "volunteers" who were around to answer newbie's questions and help set up the phone docks etc. This is a second Tesla so was accustomed to the car in general but still things were new to me. Very much appreciated the help they gave in setting up my phone dock. I'm sure new owners were very appreciative of your time as well. Have you heard of this happening in other cities/countries as well? Tesla owners are so giving of their time to help out others I've found.

Nice to hear feedback from Europe. I've been wondering how it's been going over there.

I'll add since reading your second post that what surprised me here when we went to the showroom to see the car on display was how the car attracted people of all ages really. I guess I was a bit surprised that I saw a lot of older drivers interested in it (maybe surprised because of the tech aspect--my mom and dad never really were comfortable trouble shooting their VCR LOL) and a lot of younger drivers (surprised due to the cost--but it has come down depending on model variations). I'm kind of surprised to see so many P3Ds being sold. But the car does sell itself.

 

[GregD60]

Track mode pre-cools the battery but eventually the thermal limiting will still kick in. The bottom line is that Tesla still don't have a car that can handle the sustained very high speeds that a large track or public roads with sections with no limit like autobahn allow.

To be fair, the Tesla is just fine on the autobahn for 90+% of drivers. It's only a small fraction who run at over 110 MPH on the autobahn even in little to no traffic. I think a Model 3 would have no problem maintaining 110 MPH for as long as the battery has charge.

 

[voip-ninja]

To be fair, the Tesla is just fine on the autobahn for 90+% of drivers. It's only a small fraction who run at over 110 MPH on the autobahn even in little to no traffic. I think a Model 3 would have no problem maintaining 110 MPH for as long as the battery has charge.

I disagree. Someone spending similar money on an M3 or AMG can and does drive as fast as they want for as long as they want.

 

[GregD60]

I disagree. Someone spending similar money on an M3 or AMG can and does drive as fast as they want for as long as they want.

The guy in the video was driving a LR RWD, which isn't exactly an M3 or AMG competitor; it's more like a 330i competitor which is priced comparably with similar levels of equipment. I think the vast majority of people buying a 330i in Germany aren't looking to storm the autobahn. If they were, they would have bought an M3 or AMG.

It does sound like there's a good chance that the P3D will be able to do some hard running on the autobahn without running into power limitations; I think there will be enough low speed instances due to traffic, construction, weather, etc., that it will be exceedingly rare to actually run into thermal throttling. That said, the range will probably be very poor, like under 100 miles. An M3 or AMG at similar speeds will likely have a 20% to 40% better range, still pretty poor, but if you're going to play, you're going to pay.

Over the years, I've taken enough driving trips in Germany that I've driven over 5,000 miles there, with about 80% of the miles on the autobahn. The number of people who run over 110 MPH is small, certainly in the single digit percentage range, and I can count on one hand the number of cars I've seen exceeding 130 MPH.

For that 110 MPH range, even the LR RWD car seems to have no limitations. Here's a video by the same German guy as the last one where he specifically tests this. He experienced no power limitations driven in this fashion, his range increased significantly, and it looks like only a couple of other cars passed him while he passed large numbers of other cars.

 

[GregD60]

I disagree. Someone spending similar money on an M3 or AMG can and does drive as fast as they want for as long as they want.

If you really want to do some serious autobahn running, you want a good Porsche, none of the M cars or AMGs or Teslas will be able to hang with it.

 

[voip-ninja]

If you really want to do some serious autobahn running, you want a good Porsche, none of the M cars or AMGs or Teslas will be able to hang with it.

I have been blown past by many cars on the autobahn including Porsche and a Lamborghini one time and I’ve only spent a total of maybe six months in Germany.

 

[GregD60]

I have been blown past by many cars on the autobahn including Porsche and a Lamborghini one time and I’ve only spent a total of maybe six months in Germany.

Were you driving at 130+ MPH when they blew by you, and how many miles did you drive during your six months in Germany? Most of the miles that I've logged in Germany were in BMWs on European delivery.

 

[AustinPowers]

They are still terrible for me even on 5.15. So much so that I treat auto as my off position so that it takes one less touch to move it to one of the manual speeds when I need actual wiping.

Had a rainy morning again today. Wipers are better now. Not perfect, but at least good enough that I didn't have to adjust them manually all the time anymore.
Updated to 2019.8.4 a couple of days ago, but today was the first rainy day since, so the first chance to try out possible optimizations.

Otoh, my screen flickered this morning and then showed strange patterns overlaying the nav screen. I rebooted and the problem went away. Will see his afternoon whether it was a permanent fix or whether it happens again. Anyone else experience something similar lately?

 

[banned-66611]

Unless I'm very much mistaken, I believe that by "ski hatch," banned-66611 is referring to a fold-down part of the rear seat that enables skis or similar long skinny objects to be carried in the trunk with the rear seats otherwise up.

You are, I mean the awkward shape of the rear door that is like a ski slope.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Went shopping today, saw a Model S in the parking lot. The owner (about in his mid-fifties I would guess), who had just returned to his vehicle, saw me getting out of my Model 3, waved and shouted across the carpark "finally, another Tesla" to which I replied "about time, isn't it?". We both laughed. Tesla owners in Germany are a funny little crowd

Just like Golf GTI or Mazda Miata owners in Texas.

 

[TeeEmCee]

You are, I mean the awkward shape of the rear door that is like a ski slope.

In that case, beware of the avalanche danger when you open the trunk!

 

[voip-ninja]

Were you driving at 130+ MPH when they blew by you, and how many miles did you drive during your six months in Germany? Most of the miles that I've logged in Germany were in BMWs on European delivery.

Never did BMW Euro delivery unfortunately. Total mileage probably only around 2,000 kilometers.

All of my vehicles were crappy work rentals, I think I even had a crap box Seat or Skoda once. I think highest speed I ever did on the autobahn was perhaps 150kph and that was a struggle with crappy 3-cylinder turbo diesel acting like it was about to explode.

 

[banned-66611]

In that case, beware of the avalanche danger when you open the trunk!

View attachment 393095

I can see Bjorn having a lot of "fun" with his and this flaw. Crazy that Tesla hasn't even tried to fix it.

 

[GregD60]

Never did BMW Euro delivery unfortunately. Total mileage probably only around 2,000 kilometers.

All of my vehicles were crappy work rentals, I think I even had a crap box Seat or Skoda once. I think highest speed I ever did on the autobahn was perhaps 150kph and that was a struggle with crappy 3-cylinder turbo diesel acting like it was about to explode.

I feel for you. I'd say 150kph is kind of the average cruising speed on the autobahn when traffic permits so having a car that maxes out at that speed is definitely not fun. I had a Golf with a 4 cylinder turbo diesel as a rental in Germany once. It maxed out at 180KPH; the nice thing was that it was reasonably pleasant at that speed and was comfortable cruising while topped out. The fastest I've ever gone on the autobahn was 240KPH in my 330i, but I did do a fair number of miles in all 3 of my Euro delivery BMWs at around 210KPH. It was very nice to be able to get from point to point so much faster in Germany.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Back in my days, elektro-fahren meant we drove 220 ...

 

[StellarRat]

Apparently they like them a lot: Tesla Model 3 Sales Jump In Germany, Closing the Gap With Porsche